How can we know God is Good?

[2ndRateMind]

After all, there are plenty of natural evils (Tempests, drought, floods, etc). Those of you who have been unfortunate enough to read my previous threads will know I am keen on philosophy of religion, ethics and political philosophy. If someone is good and omnipotent, I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to act in a good way.

I am currently reading a book called Believing Bull**** by Stephen Law. Quite early on in the book, he wants to know the reason why we believe God to be good, when all the theodicies can be inverted to show God to be bad. For instance, one reason we can explain the evil in the world is that it is a benevolent God's way to teach us the difference between good and evil. But the same could be said of an Evil God.

So maybe God is not good. Maybe He is evil, and takes satisfaction in our misplaced belief as to His goodness. Maybe He laughs in the face of our optimistic assessment of Evil God's nature. Maybe this earth is a vale, not of soul-making, but of soul-destruction. Maybe this Evil God wants us to suffer, do evil, and despair. Why would such a God create natural beauty? Maybe simply to provide contrast: if most of the world is ugly, it seems more ugly because it contains aspects that are beautiful. Similarly with riches; if some have the opportunity to live lavish lifestyles, that tends to make the rest of us suffer from resentment, frustration and above all envy.

Law gives plenty of other examples to show how theodicies can be subverted to prove God is maybe not quite so benevolent as the theistic religions would have us believe. If you are interested I commend his accessible book to you. It will certainly provide food for thought.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Oh to create controversy where none exist for the sake of promoting an agenda.

he wants to know the reason why we believe God to be good, when all the theodicies can be inverted to show God to be bad.

All of that is endless circular rhetoric unless one defines "good" in a meaningful relevant manner to the subject at hand.

That's the part no one ever does and without that critical part then any discussion becomes nebulous.

So maybe God is not good. Maybe He is evil, and takes satisfaction in our misplaced belief as to His goodness. Maybe He laughs in the face of our optimistic assessment of Evil God's nature. Maybe this earth is a vale, not of soul-making, but of soul-destruction. Maybe this Evil God wants us to suffer, do evil, and despair. Why would such a God create natural beauty? Maybe simply to provide contrast: if most of the world is ugly, it seems more ugly because it contains aspects that are beautiful. Similarly with riches; if some have the opportunity to live lavish lifestyles, that tends to make the rest of us suffer from resentment, frustration and above all envy.

"Maybe" God defines Good and isn't interested in our thoughts on the matter.
"Maybe" God gave us a perfect plan which we threw back in His face so he allows us to suffer fully for the fruits of our disobedience while offering a way of escape.
"Maybe" God created perfection and "WE" screwed it up so we have to now languish in the mire of our own making.
"Maybe" we are the ones with the problem.
"Maybe" God is waiting on us to learn our lesson and wont life a finger until we do and repent

Lots of "maybe" there.

 

[amadeus]

...If someone is good and omnipotent, I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to act in a good way...

How do you or any of the writers whose books you read know what "a good way" is? Good according to a dictionary definition that men have written? Good according to a definition you have in your own mind?

Likely all the answers to all of your questions are written in the Bible, even though you may not understand them and are likely often confused by some of the extra curricular ideas you consume. Does not God understand them? Consider what God inspired Isaiah to write here:

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

What do you suppose God meant that? How do you suppose a real believer in God is able to know the difference between good and evil according to God? Perhaps he is a sheep rather than a goat?

As a Christian should you not be concerned with understanding God's meaning first?

Once you really have that, will that not clarify for you all that needs to be clarified about what anyone else... that is any man... may say or believe?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Are you looking for facts, indisputable facts, about anything? If you doubt that God alone has them, then why not ask of Him? Men, including some believers, may have it wrong, but God does not.

Mt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mt 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Along with that remember also what James was inspired to write:

"Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:2-3

Will God give you all of the right answers? If you trust Him He will give you the answers that you need. Don't expect answers however simply to satisfy your curiosity. God knows better than you do what you need. Do not confuse need with want!

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

We can know God is good because contrary to what even most "Christians" seem to believe, God's commandments reflect the values and intentions of someone who is objectively good. Since keeping His commandments results in living a better life for everybody, it's clear that the God who gave them is good. Evil results from people disobeying those commandments, and it's not God's fault that people who choose to live contrary to them reap the consequences of having done so.

God implores people to keep His commandments because they are both for our own good and for the common good of other people(Deut. 30:19, 10:13). And until people stop viewing them as a set of rules from a killjoy or "Jewish" laws that Christ abolished, God is going to allow them to continue learning the hard way that living by their own rules is only going to produce more problems for themselves and other people.

 

[dev553344]

After all, there are plenty of natural evils (Tempests, drought, floods, etc). Those of you who have been unfortunate enough to read my previous threads will know I am keen on philosophy of religion, ethics and political philosophy. If someone is good and omnipotent, I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to act in a good way.

I am currently reading a book called Believing Bull**** by Stephen Law. Quite early on in the book, he wants to know the reason why we believe God to be good, when all the theodicies can be inverted to show God to be bad. For instance, one reason we can explain the evil in the world is that it is a benevolent God's way to teach us the difference between good and evil. But the same could be said of an Evil God.

So maybe God is not good. Maybe He is evil, and takes satisfaction in our misplaced belief as to His goodness. Maybe He laughs in the face of our optimistic assessment of Evil God's nature. Maybe this earth is a vale, not of soul-making, but of soul-destruction. Maybe this Evil God wants us to suffer, do evil, and despair. Why would such a God create natural beauty? Maybe simply to provide contrast: if most of the world is ugly, it seems more ugly because it contains aspects that are beautiful. Similarly with riches; if some have the opportunity to live lavish lifestyles, that tends to make the rest of us suffer from resentment, frustration and above all envy.

Law gives plenty of other examples to show how theodicies can be subverted to prove God is maybe not quite so benevolent as the theistic religions would have us believe. If you are interested I commend his accessible book to you. It will certainly provide food for thought.

Best wishes, 2RM.

The bible makes it clear that God kills and knows when that is a good principle. We also know from the bible that God resurrects his children and delivers them to paradise. How can that not be a good God.

Deuteronomy 32:39

King James Version

39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

 

[2ndRateMind]

We can know God is good because contrary to what even most "Christians" seem to believe, God's commandments reflect the values and intentions of someone who is objectively good. Since keeping His commandments results in living a better life for everybody, it's clear that the God who gave them is good. Evil results from people disobeying those commandments, and it's not God's fault that people who choose to live contrary to them reap the consequences of having done so.

God implores people to keep His commandments because they are both for our own good and for the common good of other people(Deut. 30:19, 10:13). And until people stop viewing them as a set of rules from a killjoy or "Jewish" laws that Christ abolished, God is going to allow them to continue learning the hard way that living by their own rules is only going to produce more problems for themselves and other people.

Yes, I like this 'individual and common good defense', so far as moral evils are concerned. It is certainly consistent with my experience, but doesn't work quite so well against natural evils.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Nancy]

God is also just, jealous, and never changes. His wrath will be expended, for sure, and what Satan will do compares not at all to what God's wrath (justly) will be meted out!

His mercy and forgiveness are only for those who realize/admit their need of a savior, and repent, of course.

Mark 2:17
"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Every action that God causes or allows is good because He is said to be good in scripture, it's our human, carnal tiny minds that cannot fathom what His plans are. To me, bottom line is that He is JUST! And PERFECT in ALL His ways.

 

[Wynona]

When I look at the cross and think that Jesus died for undeserving sinners, I know God is good. I know His nature is good.

 

[farouk]

When I look at the cross and think that Jesus died for undeserving sinners, I know God is good. I know His nature is good.

@Wynona "Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift" (2 Corinthians 9.15).

"Blessed be God, our God,
Who gave for us His well-beloved Son,
The gift of gifts, all other gifts in one,
Blessed be God, our God."

(Horatius Bonar)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

God is good.

I know this to be true because I know the scriptures well.

But even the prophet said this:

"O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save! Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention." (Habakkuk 1:2-3)

"wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he? And makest men as the fishes of the sea, as the creeping things, that have no ruler over them?" (Habakkuk 1:13-14)

 

[Rudometkin]

How can we know God is Good?

I think if you aren't addressing a God who is inherently Good no matter what He does, so that Good is defined by Him, then you aren't addressing God of the Bible. Then, your question at best becomes equivalent to, "How can we know God exists?"

So, maybe quit walking in circles.

 

[2ndRateMind]

I think if you aren't addressing a God who is inherently Good no matter what He does, so that Good is defined by Him, then you aren't addressing God of the Bible. Then, your question at best becomes equivalent to, "How can we know God exists?"

So, maybe quit walking in circles.

I'd be interested in your comments on this thread!

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Cooper]

After all, there are plenty of natural evils (Tempests, drought, floods, etc). Those of you who have been unfortunate enough to read my previous threads will know I am keen on philosophy of religion, ethics and political philosophy. If someone is good and omnipotent, I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to act in a good way.

I am currently reading a book called Believing Bull**** by Stephen Law. Quite early on in the book, he wants to know the reason why we believe God to be good, when all the theodicies can be inverted to show God to be bad. For instance, one reason we can explain the evil in the world is that it is a benevolent God's way to teach us the difference between good and evil. But the same could be said of an Evil God.

So maybe God is not good. Maybe He is evil, and takes satisfaction in our misplaced belief as to His goodness. Maybe He laughs in the face of our optimistic assessment of Evil God's nature. Maybe this earth is a vale, not of soul-making, but of soul-destruction. Maybe this Evil God wants us to suffer, do evil, and despair. Why would such a God create natural beauty? Maybe simply to provide contrast: if most of the world is ugly, it seems more ugly because it contains aspects that are beautiful. Similarly with riches; if some have the opportunity to live lavish lifestyles, that tends to make the rest of us suffer from resentment, frustration and above all envy.

Law gives plenty of other examples to show how theodicies can be subverted to prove God is maybe not quite so benevolent as the theistic religions would have us believe. If you are interested I commend his accessible book to you. It will certainly provide food for thought.

Best wishes, 2RM.

The god of the Jews is not Father God.
.

 

[DPMartin]

After all, there are plenty of natural evils (Tempests, drought, floods, etc). Those of you who have been unfortunate enough to read my previous threads will know I am keen on philosophy of religion, ethics and political philosophy. If someone is good and omnipotent, I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to act in a good way.

I am currently reading a book called Believing Bull**** by Stephen Law. Quite early on in the book, he wants to know the reason why we believe God to be good, when all the theodicies can be inverted to show God to be bad. For instance, one reason we can explain the evil in the world is that it is a benevolent God's way to teach us the difference between good and evil. But the same could be said of an Evil God.

So maybe God is not good. Maybe He is evil, and takes satisfaction in our misplaced belief as to His goodness. Maybe He laughs in the face of our optimistic assessment of Evil God's nature. Maybe this earth is a vale, not of soul-making, but of soul-destruction. Maybe this Evil God wants us to suffer, do evil, and despair. Why would such a God create natural beauty? Maybe simply to provide contrast: if most of the world is ugly, it seems more ugly because it contains aspects that are beautiful. Similarly with riches; if some have the opportunity to live lavish lifestyles, that tends to make the rest of us suffer from resentment, frustration and above all envy.

Law gives plenty of other examples to show how theodicies can be subverted to prove God is maybe not quite so benevolent as the theistic religions would have us believe. If you are interested I commend his accessible book to you. It will certainly provide food for thought.

Best wishes, 2RM.

according to who's judgement? yours?

 

[marks]

I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to act in a good way.

I'd agree with you.

But apparently you expect to be able to definitively declare the good and the evil.

How do you know your definitions are correct, and God's are not?

Much love!

 

[marks]

God is good.

I know this to be true because I know the scriptures well.

But even the prophet said this:

"O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save! Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention." (Habakkuk 1:2-3)

"wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he? And makest men as the fishes of the sea, as the creeping things, that have no ruler over them?" (Habakkuk 1:13-14)

This goes towards one reason I love Habakkuk so much, as God waxes philosophical Himself, showing the prophet more how He works, and how it is with men.

Much love!

 

[2ndRateMind]

I'd agree with you.

But apparently you expect to be able to definitively declare the good and the evil.

How do you know your definitions are correct, and God's are not?

Much love!

Hmmm. If they were my thoughts alone, you would have a good point. But a fair few people think much the same as I do (or I think much the same as a fair few people, whichever you prefer). As for God's intervention, then I believe God gave us minds and consciences, and expects us to use them both, to bring about His kingdom on Earth.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[amadeus]

Hmmm. If they were my thoughts alone, you would have a good point. But a fair few people think much the same as I do (or I think much the same as a fair few people, whichever you prefer). As for God's intervention, then I believe God gave us minds and consciences, and expects us to use them both, to bring about His kingdom on Earth.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Or did God gives those things [minds and consciences] to allow us the choice of serving God or mammon? The most educated and logical mind according to men, will Not necessarily be the person who best understands God and is the closest to Him.

 

[2ndRateMind]

according to who's judgement? yours?

I quoted Stephen Law, because His observations seem pertinent. For myself, I tend to the opinion that God is good, not evil, but it is a contention that needs be argued for, in the light of Law's comments.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[marks]

Hmmm. If they were my thoughts alone, you would have a good point. But a fair few people think much the same as I do (or I think much the same as a fair few people, whichever you prefer). As for God's intervention, then I believe God gave us minds and consciences, and expects us to use them both, to bring about His kingdom on Earth.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Are we going to decide "good" by popular vote? If the majority of humans think God was wrong to destroy Jericho, does that mean it was in fact wrong?

Concerning our minds and consciences, I agree with you, but I don't think we are operating at 100%.

Much love!