How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[Ronald David Bruno]

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

We have been chosen long ago. Judgment has already been made, our debts already paid for, we have been washed, so that at the Great White Throne Judgment, we won't be on that courtroom. We will already be in heaven and rewards will have already been given. The judgment of the reprobate will be carried out in full > destruction.
It's an order of a verdict already in place. The Father gave Jesus His sheep long ago. He doesn't cast them away - ever. Salvation is a gift, not by works.

the judgement seat of Christ seperates the sheep from the goats not

The separation is about to happen soon, the but sheep were chosen long ago.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Context is important. Read from vs 1. The letter is a witness, a testimony of facts, first hand experience with Christ : "we heard Him, saw Him, experienced His miracles and we have fellowship with Him" and so offer goes out to all. To all recipients of this letter, the message is that they also "may have" ( vs. 3) fellowship "if they also walk in the light as we do. His confirmation, his certainty of fellowship ( walking in the light), faith is offered and so that it is a statement of reality: If you walk in the light (if you are "in Christ", like we are), you have salvation, if you don't, you won't.
Whenever we witness to unbelievers, our testimony is not of an eye witness experience, but we have fellowship, our in Christ and walk in the light.

I guess you don't believe that you are already in Christ and walking in the LIGHT, in the spirit? Does the Holy Spirit ( God) dwell in you? You believe that you can lose your salvation , that it is conditional in accordance to your merit?
You cannot earn your salvation! Christ paid the price. You cannot add to what He did on the cross. Either all of your sins were forgiven or none of them were.

 

[faithhopecharity]

We have been chosen long ago. Judgment has already been made, our debts already paid for, we have been washed, so that at the Great White Throne Judgment, we won't be on that courtroom. We will already be in heaven and rewards will have already been given. The judgment of the reprobate will be carried out in full > destruction.
It's an order of a verdict already in place. The Father gave Jesus His sheep long ago. He doesn't cast them away - ever. Salvation is a gift, not by works.


The separation is about to happen soon, the but sheep were chosen long ago.

Context is important. Read from vs 1. The letter is a witness, a testimony of facts, first hand experience with Christ : "we heard Him, saw Him, experienced His miracles and we have fellowship with Him" and so offer goes out to all. To all recipients of this letter, the message is that they also "may have" ( vs. 3) fellowship "if they also walk in the light as we do. His confirmation, his certainty of fellowship ( walking in the light), faith is offered and so that it is a statement of reality: If you walk in the light (if you are "in Christ", like we are), you have salvation, if you don't, you won't.
Whenever we witness to unbelievers, our testimony is not of an eye witness experience, but we have fellowship, our in Christ and walk in the light.

I guess you don't believe that you are already in Christ and walking in the LIGHT, in the spirit? Does the Holy Spirit ( God) dwell in you? You believe that you can lose your salvation , that it is conditional in accordance to your merit?
You cannot earn your salvation! Christ paid the price. You cannot add to what He did on the cross. Either all of your sins were forgiven or none of them were.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men onceto die, but after this the judgment:

and the faith of Nicea!

He shall come to judge the living & the dead! all no exceptions!

so we are not saved!

thks

 

[Wrangler]

so we are not saved!

Came across Hebrews 9:28 Christ will appear a 2nd time to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Seems the OSAS has the process flow backwards compared to what Scripture teaches.

 

[David Lamb]

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men onceto die, but after this the judgment:

and the faith of Nicea!

He shall come to judge the living & the dead! all no exceptions!

so we are not saved!

thks

If we are not saved, why did the apostles tell the jailer that he would be saved if he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ? How could John write to Christians:

NKJV 1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Was Paul mistaken when he told the Ephesian Christians that they had been saved?

NKJV Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

How could the Holy Spirit be our Guarantee, if salvation doesn't happen until the judgement?

NKJV 2Co 5:4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
2Co 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

 

[faithhopecharity]

If we are not saved, why did the apostles tell the jailer that he would be saved if he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ? How could John write to Christians:

NKJV 1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Was Paul mistaken when he told the Ephesian Christians that they had been saved?

NKJV Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

How could the Holy Spirit be our Guarantee, if salvation doesn't happen until the judgement?

NKJV 2Co 5:4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
2Co 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

grace now, salvation in the future!

same as mk 16:16 shall be saved

eph 2 refers to redemption a part of salvation

eternal life has several meanings

grace now is eternal life

future salvation is eternal life

thks

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men onceto die, but after this the judgment:

and the faith of Nicea!

He shall come to judge the living & the dead! all no exceptions!

so we are not saved!

thks

So then your faith is weak, conditional... a "maybe if I'm a good boy/girl faith"? In other words a view that salvation is based on faith + works. Yet you contradict the Bible that says salvation is by faith alone ... we are justified by faith not by works.

Judgment Day will come and all will be judged. But when the Father sees His sheep who have been washed woth Jesus blood, they go through the pearly gates.
Remember the judgment that came upon Egypt and Pharoah. The Lambs blood was put over the doorways of the Israelites homes and the angel of death passed over them. In the same way, we are passed over the day of judgment.
And furthermore, what about the multitude in heaven whom Noone could number (Rev. 7:9)? They came out of the Great Tribulation and went right to heaven, bypassing any judgment. And the are many in heaven now, yet the GWT judgement had not come ( which btw happens after the Millennial Kingdom).

 

[Wrangler]

So then your faith is weak, conditional... a "maybe if I'm a good boy/girl faith"?

Nope! It's just we know who butters our bread. Faith completes grace. Grace does not extend to universalism. I think you agree in theory but not practice due to being indoctrinated.

 

[Wrangler]

Judgment Day will come and all will be judged. But when the Father sees His sheep who have been washed woth Jesus blood, they WILL GO through the pearly gates.

In practice, you are denying the future tense event.

Just last night reading Hebrews, it spoke of someone having to die for the inheritance to be given. It is in effect but not yet distributed. An easy to understand concept IF one is not indoctrinated to confuse normal language usage but imbues doctrinal significance and theological load words of common meaning. The keys to the kingdom may await my arrival, which is not quite the same thing as I actually posses right now those keys.

 

[RLT63]

This is a question I hate. Advocates say you should be 100% confidant but that doesn't seem humble to me.

How confidant are you? What does that say about your humility?

I hear a lot that it is the devil that makes you doubt your salvation. What a strange strategy. I would think he would rather have you believe you are saved when you are not

 

[David Lamb]

grace now, salvation in the future!

same as mk 16:16 shall be saved

eph 2 refers to redemption a part of salvation

eternal life has several meanings

grace now is eternal life

future salvation is eternal life

thks

The Bible has all three tenses with regard to salvation. Christians are those who have been saved. There is also a sense in which they are being saved. But the final part of salvation, glorification, is yet to come. I have heard and read some refer to this notion as "Already....But not Yet," or something simiar.

 

[Wrangler]

I hear a lot that it is the devil that makes you doubt your salvation. What a strange strategy. I would think he would rather have you believe you are saved when you are not

That’s a good point and I believe understanding what my Bible Study leader observed; over and over again, the Bible says don’t go too far left or too far right. This is what Jesus meant when he referred to the narrow path. The devil can get us either way, thinking too little of ourselves OR thinking too much of ourselves, etc.

Opponents falsely substitute faith with the question of pride, over-confidence AND substitute confidence in another for confidence in ourselves. It’s a variant of the god complex; “I have total confidence God will ….” but the question is not about God. Said differently, the devil is not testing God but testing us.

Confidence is not the same thing as certain knowledge. We make the same mistake Adam and Eve made, coveting the Tree of Knowledge rather than please God by walking in faith, meaning not knowing WHAT but knowing WHO. As Spurgeon put it, never fear trusting an unknown world to a known God (or words to that effect).

In applying RISK ANALYSIS to the question, is there more danger in us being too confident (read: arrogant) or too humble? I’m reminded of what our Lord said Luke 14:8-9 The Voice
Jesus: Whenever someone invites you to a wedding dinner, don’t sit at the head table. Someone more important than you might also have been invited, and your host will have to humiliate you publicly by telling you to give your seat to the other guest and to go find an open seat in the back of the room.

Does this caution against excessive humility or excessive confidence?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Just last night reading Hebrews, it spoke of someone having to die for the inheritance to be given.

Yes, and how many Christians do you think have already died and are there in heaven since the 1st century?
You think I have been indoctrinated? Yes with the truth. You are a non-trinitarian. Maybe 2-3% of Christians hold this view. The billion or so who are in heaven and the 2.6 billion alive now know true doctrines about Christ and the Holy Spirit. You do not know Christ, love and worship Him as I do. Why? Because you don't believe Jesus is God Almighty, the Creator. So when He said, "Before Abraham was, I Am", what do you think that means. Don't answer, I don't care to get into it with you.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, and how many Christians do you think have already died and are there in heaven since the 1st century?

Zero. Heaven is not for us. Sad how many Christians believe otherwise - even those who read the Bible.

On top of that, they won’t be resurrected until Judgment Day, which is yet to happen. It may be comforting to think a loved one that passes is in heaven, looking down on us in new, glorified bodies but it bears little resemblance to what the Bible teaches.

 

[RLT63]

Zero. Heaven is not for us. Sad how many Christians believe otherwise - even those who read the Bible.

On top of that, they won’t be resurrected until Judgment Day, which is yet to happen. It may be comforting to think a loved one that passes is in heaven, looking down on us in new, glorified bodies but it bears little resemblance to what the Bible teaches.

This sounds very close to what JWs teach

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This sounds very close to what JWs teach

Yep, but I don't think Wrangler is. There are various other non- Trinitarian branches that exist and don't quite absorb the nourishment the rest of us receive.
Just looked up his personal info - he's an ex -Unitarian who went rogue since he believes they are now run by pagans. So he is all alone - The Lone Ranger ... high ho Silver and away he goes, pontificating, clanging his cymbal to the beat of his own drum.

 

[RLT63]

Yep, but I don't think Wrangler is. There are various other non- Trinitarian branches that exist and don't quite absorb the nourishment the rest of receive. ?

I know he's not JW. Just noting the similarities

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I know he's not JW. Just noting the similarities

Check. I think Satan tries to keep people away from Christ and has devised all these false religions to do so. Pick anyone and he's satisfied. But once you began believing the Bible and in Christ what else can he do but get you to believe Jesus is not God, but a created being or an angel which changes your view in very key ways. First off you won't worship Him, honor Him as you should or pray to Him, though you listen and may do what He says, you think the orders are coming from a lesser than God being like an angel or highly appointed Messiah but human. Distorting who Jesus is and the Holy Spirit effects your relationship drastically and interpreration of scripture, since we need the Holy Spirit living us to properly dis ern scripture. If you don't believe in Him, how can you be baptized by Him?

 

[RLT63]

Check. I think Satan tries to keep people away from Christ and has devised all these false religions to do so. Pick anyone and he's satisfied. But once you began believing the Bible and in Christ what else can he do but get you to believe Jesus is not God, but a created being or an angel which changes your view in very key ways. First off you won't worship Him, honor Him as you should or pray to Him, though you listen and may do what He says, you think the orders are coming from a lesser than God being like an angel or highly appointed Messiah but human. Distorting who Jesus is and the Holy Spirit effects your relationship drastically and interpreration of scripture, since we need the Holy Spirit living us to properly dis ern scripture. If you don't believe in Him, how can you be baptized by Him?

I hope and pray that I have it right

 

[faithhopecharity]

So then your faith is weak, conditional... a "maybe if I'm a good boy/girl faith"? In other words a view that salvation is based on faith + works. Yet you contradict the Bible that says salvation is by faith alone ... we are justified by faith not by works.

Judgment Day will come and all will be judged. But when the Father sees His sheep who have been washed woth Jesus blood, they go through the pearly gates.
Remember the judgment that came upon Egypt and Pharoah. The Lambs blood was put over the doorways of the Israelites homes and the angel of death passed over them. In the same way, we are passed over the day of judgment.
And furthermore, what about the multitude in heaven whom Noone could number (Rev. 7:9)? They came out of the Great Tribulation and went right to heaven, bypassing any judgment. And the are many in heaven now, yet the GWT judgement had not come ( which btw happens after the Millennial Kingdom).

are we judged on works?

thks

 

[Wrangler]

My, my an impressive display of illogic to avoid answering the questions. 1st, change the subject multiple times. Then ...

Maybe 2-3% of Christians hold this view.

Appeal to Majority.

Don't answer, I don't care to get into it with you.

Appeal to Subjectivism.

he is all alone

Personal attack. (Ad homenim embedded in another Appeal to Majority)

The questions remain ...

In applying RISK ANALYSIS to the question, is there more danger in us being too confident (read: arrogant) or too humble? I’m reminded of what our Lord said Luke 14:8-9 The Voice
Jesus: Whenever someone invites you to a wedding dinner, don’t sit at the head table. Someone more important than you might also have been invited, and your host will have to humiliate you publicly by telling you to give your seat to the other guest and to go find an open seat in the back of the room.

Does this caution against excessive humility or excessive confidence?