How Did the False Pre-trib Rapture Get Started?

[rebuilder 454]

One more time... I'll ask you...

What Jesus said there in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 is perfectly in line with what Apostle Paul taught about Christ's coming to gather His Church in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. So are you gonna' try and say Paul wasn't speaking to Christ's Church either??

I assume your position is "one coming and one gathering"?

You still don't get it?
There are several gatherings.
Rev 14 has the 144k in heaven ( an obvious gathering), as well as a subsequent gathering of those gathered by Jesus sitting on a cloud holding a sickle , DURING the trib!!!

Leave it out, as you just did, and you can now combine 1 thess 4 ,with After the trib verses, as you just demonstrated.
You yourself are demonstrating how to omit the blatant obvious, then torture the bible to say what you desire.
Instead of reconciling verses, you are seeking a desired result.
Your error is your starting place.
Your starting place is , "seeking to prove a doctrine via omission" ( omit rev 14, the 2 escape verses, acts 1, mat 24 "before the flood" and others)
As you are demonstrating, it can not honestly be done.

 

[Davy]

I assume your position is "one coming and one gathering"?

You still don't get it?

No, actually it is you... that still doesn't 'get it'. You continue to fail in answering my simple question, and it's obvious you do not intend to, because it would convict you of falsehood.

Comparing the 'where' the saints are gathered 'from' in Christ's Olivet discourse with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 is very easy.

But it's especially the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors who tell their deceived believers the LIE that Christ's Olivet discourse was not written for His Church. So that could be one... reason why you refuse to answer my question.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Is anyone here shocked at how many threads are opened so to deny scripture as written?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Is anyone here shocked at how many threads are opened so to deny scripture as written?

Well said
I am appalled

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, actually it is you... that still doesn't 'get it'. You continue to fail in answering my simple question, and it's obvious you do not intend to, because it would convict you of falsehood.

Comparing the 'where' the saints are gathered 'from' in Christ's Olivet discourse with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 is very easy.

But it's especially the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors who tell their deceived believers the LIE that Christ's Olivet discourse was not written for His Church. So that could be one... reason why you refuse to answer my question.

My post was specific on what you leave out.
You will not and can not address the verses.
Instead you dodge, and ironically deflect to "you refuse to answer questions "
See, this is what I am talking about.
None here will address the " before the flood" setting , because I have chopped the legs off of 4 or 5 false doctrine with a single verse.
I totally understand why you will not go to the pretrib rapture verses.
Omission is not your friend sir.
But then again...maybe it is your only traction.

 

[Davy]

My post was specific on what you leave out.
You will not and can not address the verses.
Instead you dodge, and ironically deflect to "you refuse to answer questions "
See, this is what I am talking about.
None here will address the " before the flood" setting , because I have chopped the legs off of 4 or 5 false doctrine with a single verse.
I totally understand why you will not go to the pretrib rapture verses.
Omission is not your friend sir.
But then again...maybe it is your only traction.

Stupid answer.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Stupid answer.

you are completely out of gas.
Either addresses rev 14:14, and mat 24:38 or. Just keep showing us you can not.
You basically are not showing up.
Then call those challenging your error names.

You are , at this point ,playing games...

 

[Davy]

As I have already shown, Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 are parallels to what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 about the event of Christ's future coming and gathering of His 'faithful' Church.

All one need do is look at the phrases in those Matt.24:31 and Mark 13:27 verse of where those saints are gathered 'from'. In the Matt.24 version it's about the alseep saints gathered from heaven. In the Mark 13 version it's about the saints still alive gathered from the earth. This is so... easy!

And to 'know' for certain, Jesus said that gathering will only happen AFTER the tribulation, He made that point emphatic in His Olivet discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13. And Apostle Paul did also in the 1 Thessalonians 4:16 verse showing that the saints Jesus brings with Him from heaven must be RESURRECTED FIRST. That resurrection ONLY will happen on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation", so knowing that is EASY too!

Who then is all the FALSE pre-trib slogans for, like "fly away", "any moment", "left-behind", "taken", "imminent", etc.? That false Pre-trib Rapture theory is for the DECEIVED who love men's SLOGANS AND POP FADS more than they love The Word of The LORD!

 

[rebuilder 454]

As I have already shown, Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 are parallels to what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 about the event of Christ's future coming and gathering of His 'faithful' Church.

All one need do is look at the phrases in those Matt.24:31 and Mark 13:27 verse of where those saints are gathered 'from'. In the Matt.24 version it's about the alseep saints gathered from heaven. In the Mark 13 version it's about the saints still alive gathered from the earth. This is so... easy!

And to 'know' for certain, Jesus said that gathering will only happen AFTER the tribulation, He made that point emphatic in His Olivet discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13. And Apostle Paul did also in the 1 Thessalonians 4:16 verse showing that the saints Jesus brings with Him from heaven must be RESURRECTED FIRST. That resurrection ONLY will happen on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation", so knowing that is EASY too!

Who then is all the FALSE pre-trib slogans for, like "fly away", "any moment", "left-behind", "taken", "imminent", etc.? That false Pre-trib Rapture theory is for the DECEIVED who love men's SLOGANS AND POP FADS more than they love The Word of The LORD!

Rev 14:14
Mat 24:38
Crickets
Destroys your entire deal
You sure got a hurdle.
Glad I got Gods entire word.
You should try it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

As I have already shown, Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 are parallels to what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 about the event of Christ's future coming and gathering of His 'faithful' Church.

All one need do is look at the phrases in those Matt.24:31 and Mark 13:27 verse of where those saints are gathered 'from'. In the Matt.24 version it's about the alseep saints gathered from heaven. In the Mark 13 version it's about the saints still alive gathered from the earth. This is so... easy!

And to 'know' for certain, Jesus said that gathering will only happen AFTER the tribulation, He made that point emphatic in His Olivet discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13. And Apostle Paul did also in the 1 Thessalonians 4:16 verse showing that the saints Jesus brings with Him from heaven must be RESURRECTED FIRST. That resurrection ONLY will happen on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation", so knowing that is EASY too!

Who then is all the FALSE pre-trib slogans for, like "fly away", "any moment", "left-behind", "taken", "imminent", etc.? That false Pre-trib Rapture theory is for the DECEIVED who love men's SLOGANS AND POP FADS more than they love The Word of The LORD!

""" 1 Thessalonians 4:16 verse showing that the saints Jesus brings with Him from heaven must be RESURRECTED FIRST. That resurrection ONLY will happen on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation", so knowing that is EASY too!"""
You just destroyed your deal.
Rev 14:14 has a gathering before your false placement of 1 these 4.
You are obliviously declaring that the dead in Christ rise AFTER the gathering of rev14.

Busted.

 

[Davy]

""" 1 Thessalonians 4:16 verse showing that the saints Jesus brings with Him from heaven must be RESURRECTED FIRST. That resurrection ONLY will happen on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation", so knowing that is EASY too!"""
You just destroyed your deal.
Rev 14:14 has a gathering before your false placement of 1 these 4.
You are obliviously declaring that the dead in Christ rise AFTER the gathering of rev14.

Busted.

Revelation 14:14 is about last day when Jesus returns to gather His Church.

If you had continued... reading there, you should have noticed the phrase "harvest of the earth" in the next 15th verse!

Rev 14:15
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
KJV

You show you don't even know Christ's parable about harvest time in Matthew 13.

(And by the way, learn to properly use quotation marks when you quote someone.)

 

[rebuilder 454]

Revelation 14:14 is about last day when Jesus returns to gather His Church.

If you had continued... reading there, you should have noticed the phrase "harvest of the earth" in the next 15th verse!

Rev 14:15
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
KJV

You show you don't even know Christ's parable about harvest time in Matthew 13.

(And by the way, learn to properly use quotation marks when you quote someone.)

And that harvest is before the wicked are harvested but after the 144k FIRSTFRUITS.
A Jewish harvest.
The church is part of Jesus Firstfruit s ascended to heaven.
If you misinterpret """firstfruits""" you will simply ascribe it recklessly to whatever suits your doctrine.

"""And by the way, learn to properly use quotation marks when you quote someone"""
Ok officer.
Please forgive me for breaking the """law."""

 

[rebuilder 454]

"""You show you don't even know Christ's parable about harvest time in Matthew 13"""
Oh the irony from someone who knows nothing of FIRSTFRUITS.

 

[Davy]

And that harvest is before the wicked are harvested but after the 144k FIRSTFRUITS.
A Jewish harvest.

Nope.

The 'harvest' time per the Matthew 13 parable is at the END of the world like Jesus Himself said. And that harvest will involve a separation between two manner of peoples. Jesus did not point to 'Jews' as the 'righteous', but to "the good seed", which includes BOTH believing Israelites AND believing Gentiles that will make up His future Kingdom...

Matt 13:37-43
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

 

[Davy]

"""You show you don't even know Christ's parable about harvest time in Matthew 13"""
Oh the irony from someone who knows nothing of FIRSTFRUITS.

You need to read more of The New Testament Scripture and believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ instead of relying on your rabbi. I can tell easily those who don't know their New Testament Scripture, and make more comparisons from Old Testament Scripture instead.

 

[Davy]

Just so my Christian brethren understand about the 'harvest' event that's to happen at the end of this world...

That harvest event is also shown here... when Jesus returns...

Matt 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:

That will only happen when Jesus returns in our near future, to this earth, and that is when He will inherit the throne of David, which is an earthly throne. Until then, Lord Jesus is sitting on the right hand of The Father's Throne in Heaven, still expecting until all His enemies are made His footstool.

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
KJV

On the "day of the Lord", the very last day of this world, Jesus will come and gather His saints by gathering them from among all nations, and take the saints with Him to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth, to begin His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20. That is the type... of separation Jesus is pointing to in the above. (also see 1 Thess.4:13-17 linked with Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

But the "goats" He will place on the left, those will be the nations of unsaved spoken of in the Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 chapters. They will go through Christ's future "thousand years" reign in that unsaved state, and still be subject to the "second death" of the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of that "thousand years", as written in Rev.20.

That's it in a nutshell.

So don't be deceived by those on false doctrines like man's Dispensationalism or Hyper-Dispensationalism that tries to create various groups of Jews and Gentiles with that 'sheep' vs. 'goats' idea. Christ's "sheep" always means His Church of BOTH believing Israelite and believing Gentile, together as one body. The "goats" represent the unsaved without Jesus Christ. It's that simple.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You need to read more of The New Testament Scripture and believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ instead of relying on your rabbi. I can tell easily those who don't know their New Testament Scripture, and make more comparisons from Old Testament Scripture instead.

You are saying Jesus is not Firstfruit s
Then command me to read the bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Just so my Christian brethren understand about the 'harvest' event that's to happen at the end of this world...

That harvest event is also shown here... when Jesus returns...

Matt 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:

That will only happen when Jesus returns in our near future, to this earth, and that is when He will inherit the throne of David, which is an earthly throne. Until then, Lord Jesus is sitting on the right hand of The Father's Throne in Heaven, still expecting until all His enemies are made His footstool.

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
KJV

On the "day of the Lord", the very last day of this world, Jesus will come and gather His saints by gathering them from among all nations, and take the saints with Him to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth, to begin His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20. That is the type... of separation Jesus is pointing to in the above. (also see 1 Thess.4:13-17 linked with Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

But the "goats" He will place on the left, those will be the nations of unsaved spoken of in the Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 chapters. They will go through Christ's future "thousand years" reign in that unsaved state, and still be subject to the "second death" of the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of that "thousand years", as written in Rev.20.

That's it in a nutshell.

So don't be deceived by those on false doctrines like man's Dispensationalism or Hyper-Dispensationalism that tries to create various groups of Jews and Gentiles with that 'sheep' vs. 'goats' idea. Christ's "sheep" always means His Church of BOTH believing Israelite and believing Gentile, together as one body. The "goats" represent the unsaved without Jesus Christ. It's that simple.

We all know that.
REFRAME it all you want.

 

[Davy]

We all know that.
REFRAME it all you want.

No, not all here know what I posted. That's why I posted it.

Now if you don't like what I posted, even though you agree with it, you can simply go somewhere else with your mocking.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, not all here know what I posted. That's why I posted it.

Now if you don't like what I posted, even though you agree with it, you can simply go somewhere else with your mocking.

You posted your theory.
And if you don't like what I post you can go somewhere else
Boo a hoo.