The "watch rapture view"

[TribulationSigns]

Empty words from you again. It's all I can expect from you, apparently. You can't accept that scripture is sometimes very simple and straightforward. You must think "Surely, that text can't be literal! That would be too easy and simple! No, I must find a way to make it as convoluted as possible because nothing can be that simple!".

You heard me. Do what you advised yourself to do. You said it yourself. Grow up.

 

[TribulationSigns]

How about you try reading what I actually say? Goodness sakes. I didn't say anything about you agreeing with their view of those things (not all Premils are pretribs, by the way...hello?) . I was saying you are like them in the sense of not being able to discern when text is literal or figurative or when it's talking about something physical or spiritual. I never said you agree with everything you believe. You're always imagining things that no one is actually saying. It's similar to how you interpret scripture, so I guess that isn't surprising.

Cheap talking. You falsely label MY DOCTRINE comparable with premillennial, regardless of their rapture or seven-year theories, just because you believe I cannot discern which text in Matthew, or Revelation is literal or figurative. Funny.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This says it all about you. I did agree with everything you had said up to that point, but you say "doubtfully!". Who do you think you are to say otherwise? I know what I believe and I know I agreed with what you said about Jesus's body being the temple and the church being the temple of God and so on. You can't tell me what I believe. It's obviously pointless to talk to you any longer since you won't even accept it when I do agree with something you say. Forget it, man. Let me know if you ever grow up.

Not at long as you incorporate preterism's view of 70AD into your "amillennial" view, I doubt that you have the truth in some of your doctrine. Not a true amillennialist, nope.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You heard me. Do what you advised yourself to do. You said it yourself. Grow up.

Everyone her can see that you are the one who needs to grow up. Which one of us couldn't even accept it when the other agreed with something the other said? That would be you. Instead of being happy that I agreed with you about something, you childishly said "Doubtfully!". It's also very spiritually childish to not even be able to recognize simple, straightforward text in scripture and instead make literally everything as complicated as possible. There's no discernment going on there. Your hyper-spiritualization of scripture shows your childish lack of being able to differentiate between literal and figurative text and discern the difference between physical things and spiritual things. And your understanding of Satan? LOL! Yeah, you're the one who needs to grow up. Jesus was not tempted in the desert for 40 days and nights by His own sinful desires (you think "Satan" represents man's sinful desires), of which He had none.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not at long as you incorporate preterism's view of 70AD into your "amillennial" view, I doubt that you have the truth in some of your doctrine. Not a true amillennialist, nope.

As if interpreting one passage the way they do means I interpret everything the way they do? I don't. Get a clue, man. You're embarrassing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Cheap talking. You falsely label MY DOCTRINE comparable with premillennial, regardless of their rapture or seven-year theories, just because you believe I cannot discern which text in Matthew, or Revelation is literal or figurative. Funny.

You are similar to them in that way, but you take it like I'm saying you're similar to them in every way because you can't read. But, oh, you don't like being compared to Premils in any way, shape or form, eh? Well, how about not comparing me to preterists then if you don't like that. Grow up or go away.

 

[The Light]

You wrongly connected Is. 34 with the 70th week of Daniel.

There are only 3.5 years left in the 70th week of Daniel. The one year of wrath in Isaiah 34 is part of those 3.5 years.

YOu also forget that the Battle of Armageddon takes place 3 1/2 years after the antichrist rises from the dsead and begins his global rule.

I think the beast of the earth comes to power first as the 7th king who gives His power to the eighth king, the beast of the sea. The beast of the earth causes the world to worship the eighth king

3.5 years for the two witnesses.
3.5 years for the Antichrist.
3.5 left in the 70th week of Daniel.

These are three timelines. They are not all the same period of time. They overlap, but all begin at a different point in time.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Oh, you don't like being compared to Premils in any way, shape or form, eh?

Well, because, unlike yours, my doctrine does not support any way, shape, or form of premillennialism, including their discernment.

Well, how about not comparing me to preterists then if you don't like that. Grow up or go away.

Well, because, unlike mine, your doctrine does incorporate Preterist's interpreation of Olivet Discourse ("partial") or even some in Revelation, as part of your belief. Your whole foundation of amillennialism falls down.

So you go away. Listen to your advice. You are wasting time here. Just as I thought, you do not do what you preach. LOL.

 

[Douggg]

That is what Matthew 22:7 indicates, but you lack the discernment to see it because of your doctrinal bias. If you read Matthew 23, Luke 19:41-44 and Matthew 22:1-7 it should be clear that it was God's plan to punish the Jews for their rebellion against Christ and that's exactly what He did.

If that were true, then why did Jesus say for them in Judaea to flee to the mountains when they see Jerusalem surrounding by armies in Luke 2120-21 ?

You don't understand, Jesus was the cure for the Jews problem of Roman rule and occupation. The Jews did not embrace Jesus as the cure. So the result was when the Jews rebelled against the Roman rule and occupation, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.

Just like if you refused a vaccination for a disease, by not taking it you end up with the disease.

 

[TribulationSigns]

And your understanding of Satan? LOL! Yeah, you're the one who needs to grow up. Jesus was not tempted in the desert for 40 days and nights by His own sinful desires (you think "Satan" represents man's sinful desires), of which He had none.

(Chuckle). Start a thread. If you’re going to challenge doctrine, at least come with Scripture rightly divided—not recycled labels, false assumptions, and smug sidesteps without fully understand the situation between Christ and Satan at the wilderness. Unless you agreed to take your own advice to stop waste your time with me and move on. Your call.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, because, unlike yours, my doctrine does not support any way, shape, or form of premillennialism, including their discernment.

LOL. How does my doctrine support Premillennialism? You are a jokester. Also, you continue to miss the point. I'm not saying your doctrine is like Premil itself in any way. I'm saying you lack the ability to discern the difference between literal and figurative text like them.

Well, because, unlike mine, your doctrine does incorporate Preterist's interpreation of Olivet Discourse ("partial")

This is where you reveal what a liar you are. I do NOT agree with how they interpret MOST of the Olivet Discourse and I've told you this. But, you still tell this lie. They believe that Jesus came in 70 AD, that the elect were gathered in 70 AD, that the increased deception, apostasy and wickedness Jesus talked about happened before 70 AD, that the wars, earthquakes, famines and pestilences that Jesus talked about happened before 70 AD and that the end of the age came in 70 AD. I don't believe any of that. But, you still try to call me a partial preterist. That's a lie.

or even some in Revelation, as part of your belief.

Oh, really? Tell me what part of Revelation I agree with them about. This should be good.

Your whole foundation of amillennialism falls down.

LOL. This is a huge joke. Do you even know what Amillennialism is? It's the belief that Jesus began reigning after His resurrection and that Satan was bound back then and that Christ's followers were made priests back then and that the thousand years is not literal and does not follow Christ's return. Do you agree with all of that? I'm pretty sure you do. And it's the belief that all of the dead will be resurrected at the same time and all people will be judged at the same time. Still agree? If so, what were you saying about my whole foundation of amillennialism falling down?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

(Chuckle). Start a thread. If you’re going to challenge doctrine, at least come with Scripture rightly divided—not recycled labels, false assumptions, and smug sidesteps without fully understand the situation between Christ and Satan at the wilderness. Unless you agreed to take your own advice to stop waste your time with me and move on. Your call.

LOL. As if I'm going to start a thread to refute something that only one person believes. No, I'm not going to waste time doing that. You're not that important. If I thought there were others here who agreed with you about that, then I would do that, but I highly doubt that is the case.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If that were true, then why did Jesus say for them in Judaea to flee to the mountains when they see Jerusalem surrounding by armies in Luke 2120-21 ?

I can't believe you're asking this. Obviously, Jesus said that so that believers (the only ones who would actually heed His warning) would avoid God's wrath. He didn't want any believers to get caught up in the destruction of Jerusalem that was intended to be only against unbelievers.

You don't understand, Jesus was the cure for the Jews problem of Roman rule and occupation. The Jews did not embrace Jesus as the cure. So the result was when the Jews rebelled against the Roman rule and occupation, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.

You don't think God approved of what happened there? You don't think He wanted them to be destroyed despite most of them rejecting His Son? Have you ever read Matthew 23? You don't seem to understand just how angry God was with the unbelieving Jews.

 

[Zao is life]

So many words to say nothing while denying the obvious, which is that Jesus DID answer their question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed. I've never seen a more blatant twisting of scripture than this while denying something so obvious just to make the text say what you want it to say. As if Jesus would tell them that the temple buildings would be destroyed while at the same time being unwilling to give any details at all about it? LOL! What a joke. I can't take you seriously.

Your words are the words of the self-deceived person who is being cautioned in 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, which follow immediately after verses 16-17 of that passage.

The text which is the record of Jesus' reply to their question in Matthew 24:4 onward, Mark 13:5 onward, and Luke 21:8 onward says nothing about the physical temple in Jerusalem. Jesus had already told them twice it was going to be destroyed. They were not to know when that would happen, nor concern themselves with it, because as far as the God of our salvation is concerned, the gospel of salvation in Christ Jesus and the suffering under their tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament temple were going to experience, is all that was important.

Though the disciples did not understand it yet on the day they asked the question regarding the physical temple, within days they would understand (John 2:22).

TribulationSigns has also explained it to you (or attempted to) in his post which I quote below.

This is my last reply to you in this thread about this topic because it's pointless talking to you about it any longer due to your ears being closed by your mouth being open wide with foolish and ignorant talk such as in the above post, and you cannot hear. It's not a Christian discussion anyone who engages with you gets himself into, it's an exercise in pride and arrogance, and engaging with pride and arrogance unavoidably becomes an exercise in pride and arrogance on the part of the one who remains engaged with you.
​

You’re missing the point by focusing only on physical events like the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Yes, unbelieving Jews were judged for rejecting Christ, but the deeper and more immediate judgment was spiritual—not merely a building falling decades later. Jesus wasn’t just talking about stone walls; He was speaking of a spiritual house and kingdom.

First, Jesus said in Matthew 21:42-44:

“The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner… Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

Here, “the builders” were the Jewish leaders and unbeliving people of Israel. “The stone” is Christ. And the “nation” He refers to is the New Testament Church—as holy nation made up of both Jew and Gentile believers (1 Peter 2:9-10). The judgment was that the kingdom was spiritually taken away from unbelieving Israel and given to those in Christ who bear fruit.

Second, in 1 Peter 2:4-6, Peter says to Christians:

“Ye also, as lively [living] stones, are built up a spiritual house… Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.”

This proves that God’s true Temple was never about physical stones in Jerusalem. The true house of God is made up of PEOPLE —as living stones in Christ. That includes believers from the Old Testament (Hebrews 11:39-40), and now, the New Testament Church.

Third, in John 2:19-21, Jesus Himself clarified the deeper meaning:

“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” But he was speaking of the temple of his body.

He was never ultimately focused on Herod’s temple. That structure was just a shadow (Hebrews 8:5). The real temple is Christ’s body—and by extension, HIS PEOPLE (see 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:19-22). When Israel rejected Him, they were cast out of the spiritual house, and God raised up a new one, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ as the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20).

 

[TribulationSigns]

Your words are the words of the self-deceived person who is being cautioned in 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, which follow immediately after verses 16-17 of that passage.

The text which is the record of Jesus' reply to their question in Matthew 24:4 onward, Mark 13:5 onward, and Luke 21:8 onward says nothing about the physical temple in Jerusalem. Jesus had already told them twice it was going to be destroyed. They were not to know when that would happen, nor concern themselves with it, because as far as the God of our salvation is concerned, the gospel of salvation in Christ Jesus and the suffering under their tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament temple were going to experience, is all that was important.

Though the disciples did not understand it yet on the day they asked the question regarding the physical temple, within days they would understand (John 2:22).

TribulationSigns has also explained it to you (or attempted to) in his post which I quote below.

This is my last reply to you in this thread about this topic because it's pointless talking to you about it any longer due to your ears being closed by your mouth being open wide with foolish and ignorant talk such as in the above post, and you cannot hear.​

Thank you!

 

[Zao is life]

Apparently God took His wrath upon the Jews out by destroying buildings?

Holy Spirit no longer resides there.



But in AD70 it miraculously became the holy place again just long enough for an abomination that causes desolation to appear in the holy place so that the Roman armies could demolish the structure.

Copy @TribulationSigns @Spiritual Israelite

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your words are the words of the self-deceived person who is being cautioned in 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, which follow immediately after verses 16-17 of that passage.

The text which is the record of Jesus' reply to their question in Matthew 24:4 onward, Mark 13:5 onward, and Luke 21:8 onward says nothing about the physical temple in Jerusalem. Jesus had already told them twice it was going to be destroyed. They were not to know when that would happen, nor concern themselves with it, because as far as the God of our salvation is concerned, the gospel of salvation in Christ Jesus and the suffering under their tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament temple were going to experience, is all that was important.

Though the disciples did not understand it yet on the day they asked the question regarding the physical temple, within days they would understand (John 2:22).

TribulationSigns has also explained it to you (or attempted to) in his post which I quote below.

This is my last reply to you in this thread about this topic because it's pointless talking to you about it any longer due to your ears being closed by your mouth being open wide with foolish and ignorant talk such as in the above post, and you cannot hear. It's not a Christian discussion anyone who engages with you gets himself into, it's an exercise in pride and arrogance, and engaging with pride and arrogance unavoidably becomes an exercise in pride and arrogance on the part of the one who remains engaged with you.
​

Don't make excuses for your own pride and arrogance. That is entirely on you. Don't blame me for that. None of what you said here is worth responding to because it's just a repeat of what you keep falsely claiming over and over again. Jesus only told the disciples that the temple buildings would be destroyed once before the Olivet Discourse, by the way. And that was what spawned the Olivet Discourse. You acting like He wasn't interested in talking about a third time in the Olivet Discourse is deceptive since He had only said that once just prior to the Olivet Discourse.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Apparently God took His wrath upon the Jews out by destroying buildings?

Many unbelieving Jews were killed and other taken captive at that time. To them the temple buildings were still sacred and they were still worshiping there and foolishly performing animal sacrifices there and such. To take that way from them was definitely a punishment by God because it showed them that them that by not accepting the new covenant sacrifice of Christ while continuing to cling to the obsolete old covenant sacrifices at the temple was unacceptable and would not be tolerated any longer. For those Jews, the loss of their temple buildings was devastating. A clear punishment by God and part of His wrath against unbelieving Jews at that time. It's unbelievable that anyone can't see that.

Holy Spirit no longer resides there.

View attachment 66103

No one said the Holy Spirit still dwelt there. You are making a strawman argument which seems to be the only kind of argument you can make anymore.

But in AD70 it miraculously became the holy place again

Who is claiming that it was the holy place in 70 AD? No one. Was it still the holy place at the time Jesus was speaking? Technically, yes. The disciples would have recognized it as such and He was speaking directly to them. So, there was no reason why He couldn't call the temple standing at that time the holy place. The disciples would have known that He was talking about the temple standing at that time which was often called the holy place.

You are avoiding the real issue here which is that while you do believe that the disciples asked Him about when the temple buildings would be destroyed, you believe He inexplicably chose not to answer that question. You just don't know how ridiculous it is to make that claim. There is no reason whatsoever that He would not have been willing to answer that question. If He wasn't willing to answer any questions about it, then why did He even tell them that the temple buildings would be destroyed? You make the whole thing pointless and meaningless, but Jesus did not tell them something meaningless when He told the the temple buildings would be destroyed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thank you!

Awwww, look at the Premil and Amil supporting each other with their shared false belief. How cute.