How do we attain unity?

[farouk]

Hi farouk,

I think unity is also pretended by many. An outward superficial unity, but not there when the fire gets hot!

Much love!

I'm sure this is very true! At a deeper level, rather, the sort of unity in view in John 17 is the sort to pursue.

 

[marks]

No, it is important doctrinal matters over which there are divisions. While we are united to Christ as children of God, that is not exactly the end-point according to Scripture. What does God require?

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (Eph.4:13).

What is "the faith"? The whole body of Christian truth (Bible doctrines) as given in Scripture. And that unity does not exist, other than within some local churches. But we are to earnestly contend for "the faith".

Hi Enoch,

This is a good question, what is "the faith" for which we contend?

In this place in Ephesians, I see two things here. One is the unity of the faith, and the other is the unity of the knowledge of Jesus. And reaching these will produce maturity, measuring up to Christ.

Faith, and Knowledge of Jesus, which I think of as Faith and Doctrine.

Faith to me speaks of my complete reliance on Jesus. If we are all equally reliant on Jesus, that dependancy will refocus our attention.

Knowledge of Jesus speaks to me of knowing about Jesus, Who He is, what He does, what He wants, like that.

Faith mingled with the Word of God.

Believing Jesus, that He Is, that He rewards those who seek Him, and knowing Him, the reward of that search.

Thoughts?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do we have the same Spirit? If so how can we not be united through Him? In spite of all the differences of beliefs and doctrinal issues surely if we all have the same Spirit isn't that unity of the Spirit if not of the mind which is human.

Hi Pearl,

I believe this completely! Being truly born again we share His Spirit and therefore are one in Him. What remains is to start acting that way!

Just like all other things in Christ, God has brought unity to His children, but we need to get it into our lives.

Any discord is a product of the mind of the flesh.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

I think the deeper the disagreements between us, the more we need to make the effort to identify the common ground. Otherwise it gets really easy to focus on the differences.

Yes marks, we have the common ground of Jesus and our salvation through him. One of the guys in my church was pastor of an international church in Portugal and he says his congregation was made up of people from every type of church background. They all had their own traditions and various doctrines but he says he learned that the backgrounds and doctrines were unimportant but they all had Jesus in common, they all had salvation in common so they concentrated on what they had in common rather than the things they disagreed about.

 

[Pearl]

Hi tzcho2,

I didn't fall in love with God either. I am in the process, but that's a different story.

But I repented in believing God, not loving God.

I think we can all see the differences not only in interpretations of the Bible, but how we should see others, in their differences, and how we should go about dealing with these differences.

So how do we respond to people who profess Christ, who do the things a Christian does, but they seem off to us? Or disagree over something we feel strongly about?

Much love!

God is our Father and we don't fall in love with our earthly fathers we just learn to love them over time as the provide for us and protect us and love us.

 

[farouk]

Yes marks, we have the common ground of Jesus and our salvation through him. One of the guys in my church was pastor of an international church in Portugal and he says his congregation was made up of people from every type of church background. They all had their own traditions and various doctrines but he says he learned that the backgrounds and doctrines were unimportant but they all had Jesus in common, they all had salvation in common so they concentrated on what they had in common rather than the things they disagreed about.

The questions, Who is the Lord Jesus? and what did He do at the Cross? for which there are Scriptural answers, are most important, so I would not agree that doctrine does not matter.

But yes, the local church needs to focus upon the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus, in unity.

 

[marks]

Which (I believe) is when one believer’s personal relationship with Christ is touching/tasting, having a exchange of life/Christ with another persons personal relationship with Christ.

These are some words to wrap the mind around!

My wife and I are of the same mind on most things, but not everything. We disagree about as heartily as can be on certain serious matters. Yet we are one, and we live our lives that way.

Sharing in the same live has bonded us strongly.

They say that people who survive ordeals together often end up strongly bonded together. In the Bible God calls it the fellowship of suffering. Peter admonishes us to remember that the same things we are suffering "are being accomplished by our brothers" also. We suffer as Jesus suffered, and we have communion with Him.

If we can be vulnerable to share our lives with each other, I think we can realize more of that unity.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why does the Holy Spirit yearn jealously? Because those who walk after the flesh have yielded to the world and the flesh (the old nature with its lusts), rather than to the Spirit.

So then how do we go about restoring unity with those who are distracted by the things of the world and of the flesh?

Much love!

 

[Helen]

So then how do we go about restoring unity with those who are distracted by the things of the world and of the flesh?

Much love!

Very good question...waiting for some wise answers here

When you find the answer , don't forget to write a book.
It would answer so much for the Church!

 

[Not me]

These are some words to wrap the mind around!

My wife and I are of the same mind on most things, but not everything. We disagree about as heartily as can be on certain serious matters. Yet we are one, and we live our lives that way.

Sharing in the same live has bonded us strongly.

They say that people who survive ordeals together often end up strongly bonded together. In the Bible God calls it the fellowship of suffering. Peter admonishes us to remember that the same things we are suffering "are being accomplished by our brothers" also. We suffer as Jesus suffered, and we have communion with Him.

I we can be vulnerable to share our lives with each other, I think we can realize more of that unity.

Much love!

I have concluded that any two people can walk together in unity and friendship, if righteousness is that thing that is sought after, and not any one’s “will”.

For righteousness is the only thing that takes into account everyone’s “rights” without favoring one over the other. (my thinks.)

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[marks]

I have concluded that any two people can walk together in unity and friendship, if righteousness is that thing that is sought after, and not any one’s “will”.

For righteousness is the only thing that takes into account everyone’s “rights” without favoring one over the other. (my thinks.)

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

Great thought that!

What about when there is inequality in this way? Can we have unity with those who are hoping for the bigger slice?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Very good question...waiting for some wise answers here

When you find the answer , don't forget to write a book.
It would answer so much for the Church!

I have a theory.

My theory is that at the base of sin is envy. Money feeds this as the root of all evil, in that it provides the resource for me to get more for myself, whatever it is.

I think Satan envied mankind's role in God's family, angels being "mere servants" to the "mudmen".

So then in my theory, my best argument is a faithful life. I can be being conformed to Christ, and therefore become more unifying, and I can show the fruits of righteousness, and dare I even say? Give a picture of something in my life that people might want for their own? How I hope that can be!

And . . . I am writing a book . . . page by page . . . chapter by chapter . . . right here!

 

[Not me]

Great thought that!

What about when there is inequality in this way? Can we have unity with those who are hoping for the bigger slice?

Much love!

What are we to do about the inequality in the world?

I think we are to do nothing.

We are not called to be judges of those that are without, only judges of those within.

For we are only called to be obedient to Jesus in this world.

For the truth is.....Making yourself 100% obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ is the greatest gift of love you can give anybody and everybody. Thereby hopefully helping some to Christ.

(my surmises anyways)

Great heart provoking thread.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[tzcho2]

Hi tzcho2,
I didn't fall in love with God either. I am in the process, but that's a different story.
But I repented in believing God, not loving God.
I think we can all see the differences not only in interpretations of the Bible, but how we should see others, in their differences, and how we should go about dealing with these differences.
So how do we respond to people who profess Christ, who do the things a Christian does, but they seem off to us? Or disagree over something we feel strongly about?
Much love!

Hi marks, It is possible that some profess a different Christ for eg.
These differences are on a scale , beginning with common everyday disagreements , and then there are heresies , deceptive teachings and then there is apostasy. There are positions of not knowing, positions of holding some doctrinal disagreements and then there are those who according to the Bible are promoting harmful heresies, deception or are teachers of false doctrines. Some can be subtley promoting another Gospel, another Jesus, or they attack the Divine authority of scripture.

 

[marks]

What are we to do about the inequality in the world?

I think we are to do nothing.

We are not called to be judges of those that are without, only judges of those within.

For we are only called to be obedient to Jesus in this world.

For the truth is.....Making yourself 100% obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ is the greatest gift of love you can give anybody and everybody. Thereby hopefully helping some to Christ.

(my surmises anyways)

Great heart provoking thread.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

I was actually meaning those in the church, our fellow believers who seem to want to be one up on us. But at the end of the day I think you put it very well above.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hi marks, It is possible that some profess a different Christ for eg.
These differences are on a scale , beginning with common everyday disagreements , and then there are heresies , deceptive teachings and then there is apostasy. There are positions of not knowing, positions of holding some doctrinal disagreements and then there are those who according to the Bible are promoting harmful heresies, deception or are teachers of false doctrines. Some can be subtley promoting another Gospel, another Jesus, or they attack the Divine authority of scripture.

This reminds me:

1 Corinthians 11:18-19
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Heresies being "factions", "sects", "divisions".

There must be divisions, so those who are approved are made known.

So when to divide, and when to unify?

Much love!

 

[Not me]

I was actually meaning those in the church, our fellow believers who seem to want to be one up on us. But at the end of the day I think you put it very well above.

Much love!

Oops, sorry.

But as I’m sure you know scripture says to accept those that are weak in faith, (meaning those that have a weak personal relationship with Christ) we are not to cast dispersions upon their opinions but to point them to Christ as the opportunity arises.

That’s my understanding anyways ???

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[marks]

Oops, sorry.

But as I’m sure you know scripture says to accept those that are weak in faith, (meaning those that have a weak personal relationship with Christ) we are not to cast dispersions upon their opinions but to point them to Christ as the opportunity arises.

That’s my understanding???

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

Again, I think very well put, point them to Christ as we have opportunity. And I think that works just wonderfully whether we are in front of the saved or unsaved.

Much love!

 

[Not me]

Again, I think very well put, point them to Christ as we have opportunity. And I think that works just wonderfully whether we are in front of the saved or unsaved.

Much love!

Blessings as today, Lord willing, we can grow closer to Him and tomorrow closer still.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Hidden In Him]

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Greetings, marks. People react badly when I speak critically of the modern church, but in all honesty I think we are a long ways off just yet from what Paul was talking about in this passage. It is prophesied that we will get there, but let me tell you what he was describing here for starters.

The Greek actually reads, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the recognition of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ." What he's talking about is recognizing Christ in full manifestation in the church, i.e. everyone coming into the recognition of Christ manifesting Himself through the entire church in His fullness, in all power, authority, wisdom and revelation, with every gift in full manifestation. This is why Paul adds at the end, "From whom the whole body, fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." He's talking about Christ's body edifying itself and increasing itself through the operation of the gifts of the Spirit as described in 1 Corinthians 14:26-28. This will be impossible until the full manifestation of the supernatural gifts are restored, and even then the church will have to master not quenching the Holy Spirit, something that happens whenever churches give themselves over to strife in doctrinal matters instead of keeping the peace of Christ in the bonds of love, and letting the peace of Christ "referee" (i.e. or rule) among them.

We are a long ways off from what he was talking about here still, but Joel 2:28 promises that the gifts of the Spirit including prophecy will eventually be fully restored to the body of Christ in the end-times, and I believe they will eventually walk in the unity of the faith on a level never even dreamt of during New Testament times.

How long it takes until we get there is anyone's guess, but I don't see it happening quickly (unfortunately).

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden