The glorious, central theme of the written Word is the living and eternal Word Himself, Who became flesh and suffered in the flesh for His people.
How do you do bible study?
- Thread starter Chong Shipei
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The reason you have to do this substitution is because the Bible does not say Jesus is God.
Supposing Figurative speech must be taken literally is in bad form.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yes, by the power of the literal word of God, things were created. A paraphrase of GE 1:1. Does not mean Jesus is God.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The bible presents its words as symbolic, allegorical, and literal.
Here is a literal.. ."The Word was GOD".
Here is a symbolic. "men will gather them and they will be burned"
So, Im not substituting.
Im merely doing the most basic scriptural exegesis regarding Jesus being the "Word made flesh". as the bible teaches in : 1 Timothy 3:16
Scriptures have to be "rightly divided"...by study, and by the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.... ."comparing scripture with scripture".
That's what i do.
There is no such thing as analyzing the scriptures, to get the understanding...., and that is where most believers fail.
THey are trying to make the bible into something that fits their IQ, opinion, or denomination's handbook or their commentary....and that will never work.
The Bible has to be BELIEVED.....vs, figured out.
Listen, you can't figure out how Christ pre-incarnate was the Word.
This can't be understood by analysis, any more than a dead jew hanging on a Tree 2000 yrs ago = IS the Savior of the world,.... can be understood by analysis.
It just has to be BELIEVED, because that is how God set it up.
Its all by Faith, as without faith it is impossible to please God.
Scriptures are rightly divided only through the eyes of faith., as that is spiritual discernment engaged.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
A person has a name and His name is called "The Word of God" -- deny that is His name is denying Him!
Now this maybe a revelation to you, and Jesus Christ has not been revealed to everyone, but He is standing there at the door speaking so that "anyone" can start to hear Him if they just have enough faith to believe in Jesus Christ! So you need just enough faith to get that revelation. It doesn't take much but it does mean that you need to repent of your ways so that you might desire to find our His ways! Of course we have already gone over and over and over this. Perhaps someday you will think about Him and if indeed Jesus Christ is really there to talk to you via His Holy Spirit speaking to your spirit. It is written that all those who seek find, so perhaps someday you will seek Him and decide you want to hear from the Word of God? There is indeed indeed a command: "HEAR O ISREAL", and when you do hear from Him you will find out that He is the Word of God - meaning that He is the One who you are looking for with the words of God. We call Him Jesus Christ because He is the Christ and He is God's salvation (Jesus) to those who believe in Him. Yet even before He went to the cross and paid our price for sin,
He was still called "The Word of God", or 'word of the Lord' who came and spoke to those who knew Him as both the 'word of the Lord' who spoke to them and the Lord God. You can keep denying all that is written in the Bible, but they day will come when all knees bow down to Him! Yet some, will be told by Him, "I never knew you" - and they will be put into a place we call hell. So I would suggest you get to know the person whose name is called "The Word of God"! I testify to you that I know HIm and He knows me! We have spent many times together talking back and forth. So, you have my testimony and the testimony of those who wrote the Bible, but you obviously don't know Him who has the words of God for you personally, or you would know and understand what I am telling you! You would know Jesus Christ is the Word of God who took on flesh and went to the cross, and I do mean you would know Him, personally!
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And let me provided just a little humor from Abbott and Costello - that might help give you some understanding how you are wrong!
Bud Abbott: I say Who’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know’s on third.
Lou Costello: Are you the manager?
Bud Abbott: Yes.
Lou Costello: You gonna be the coach too?
Bud Abbott: Yes.
Lou Costello: And you don’t know the fellows’ names?
Bud Abbott: Well I should.
Lou Costello: Well then who’s on first?
Bud Abbott: Yes.
Lou Costello: I mean the fellow’s name.
Bud Abbott: Who.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
PUL-EASE!
The name of the Messiah is Yeshua. His God's name is YHWH.
In English, these are Jesus and his God Jehovah.
The evidence for the trinity is so lacking, people like you come up with these ridiculous claims. Guess what? When his mother, Mary, called him for dinner as a child growing up, she did to call out "The Word of God, dinner's ready."
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Typical resort to threat. Again, I say when I write that the trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture, I mean that neither the word nor the concept of the trinity is explicitly in the Bible.
To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those - like you - who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!
To the op - and there you have it. Those men are showing you how they do Bible study.
Yes you are right!!
That is exactly what the conversation is about, but perhaps you are just being sarcastic?
So let me explain the conversation going on. I have been making the case that to understand the Bible you need to actually talk to the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him.
Matt 17:5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”
Now those that wrote the Bible knew Jesus Christ as "The Word of God" or word of the Lord, because they did listen to Him and He had the words of God.
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
So knowing that His name is called "The Word of God" because we need to listen to Him we then talk to Him about the Bible and more. Mostly more, because studying the Bible is really just a small part of our lives. So we talk to Him about our jobs, our relationships, our shopping, and all our problems, but concerning this thread we talk to Him about our studying the Bible. So, He actually becomes our Teacher.
Yet that is not true for everyone. Some, the other person your refer to, leans on his own understanding of the Scriptures, and it clearly shows up. For example He doesn't think Jesus Christ is the Word, thought the verse above was provided, nor does He think Jesus Christ is God, though the following verse was provided over and over to him:
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Clearly we read the Word, was both with God and was God, so his unitarian idea is just wrong and completely invalidated by that verse. Yet again, it is really not about the verse or any veres but about actually listening to Jesus Christ - our Teacher.
So if you take a class with a Teacher, do you not study the textbook for the class according to the homework assignment the Teacher gives you? Yet look at the thread more closely and you will find most posting did not respond that they study with the Teacher (Jesus Christ) and the other person you refer to is an excellent example of this fact!
So indeed your are correct to write: "To the op - and there you have it. Those men are showing you how they do Bible study." But why did you really write it? It wasn't to be sarcastic, was it? Well - if it was then it is now set straight, and if not it is now fully explained.
I have not threaten you or anyone, but Jesus did explain that He was going to tell many that He never knew them, and He was going to exercises the authority of God to have them taken away! So my suggestion is that you get to know the One who will make that call - the judgement of God!! Oh, but you don't believe Him to be God - despite all that is written in the Scriptures!! You keep saying that it doesn't say He is God but it does, over and over, and you read about Jesus exercising the authority of God and still refuse to believe what is written, which is that you need to believe in Him!
So while the Scriptures don't use the word trinity they do clearly call Him God!! They do show you that He is on the throne of God, which of course is not the throne of God if God is not on it, and He is one the throne as King of kings and Lord or lords. The Scriptures go over how He is one with the Father, but you deny them being One. You have even said that Word can not be a name, and that is clearly wrong, because the Scriptures clearly say that His name is called "The Word of God" So the Scriptures prove you wrong and the Scriptures give a warning - even a threat if you care to think of it that way, So it is not me who threatens you, but I am sure you felt the treat and problem when I showed you the Scriptures.
Jn 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God....
..He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.,,
...But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,..
...“I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.”...
...and he looked at Jesus as He walked, and *said, “Behold, the Lamb of God!”../
...“I did not recognize [fn]Him, but He who sent me to baptize [fn]in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes [fn]in the Holy Spirit.’
Jesus is the Son of God, the and He is "ETERNAL", AND IS GOD" - and John 1 even has the Holy Spirit part also, according to the verses above which were already providing and ignored and denied by you. So no need to tell me the concept of the trinity is not explained. it is all there - even in the first chapter of the book of John. Still, I also mentioned that understanding does not come from you leaning on your understanding. Somehow you understand something different that what is actually written! How did you get it mixed up?
The Lord once told me:
WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???
That statement might have gone right over you, but to understand it you have to understand that Jesus Christ is "Understanding". That too is one of His names!
Prov 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,”
And call understanding your intimate friend;
Abraham and Moses were the friends of God, as was king Solomon by they way the above verse reads. When you get to know Jesus Christ, and actually listen to Him you find out that He becomes like a friend to you! Which is to say that the Word of God who was in the beginning with God and who is God (Eternal and God the Son according to the Scriptures even those provided and denied) talks to you, gives you understanding even as a friend helps a friend. But if you don't study the Bible with Him they you don't have understanding (Him) but only your own understanding which isn't going to get you the understanding you need! And we all need understanding, as a friend of ours!! We don't want to lean on our own understanding!!
Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Agreed. That is precisely what you are not doing. You are instead imposing your trinitarian dogma onto unitarian text.
Yes, you did and I just called you out on it. It shows you have lost the argument.
Agreed. @Rich R wrote recently that it is written in Scripture 37 times that Jesus is the Son of God.
Not denied by me at all.
I understand what is written, without imposing a belief system contrary to the monotheist authors. For instance, the Gospel of John cannot be used to attempt to prove what you want because it contradicts his stated purpose in at 20:31 that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed. You deny and ignore this. This is because your dogma supersedes God's words.
From the perspective of 20:31, you have to look at the literal reference to God's words in 1:1. It does not even mention Jesus but you pretend it does. And you pretend John 1:1 cannot possibly be referring the literal words of God - and not another person.
This is how I help folks understand their Bibles.
It is in a 10, 1 hour lesson format and very simple to understand.
You are welcome to try it if you wish....
If you subscribe, you can see the other 9 lessons etc.
Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
There is a mistake many make with the above verse - the mistake is to not understand that the Lord actually can, will, and wants to talk to you personally so that you can listen to Him!!
Leaning on your own understanding means thinking something and leaning on it. Whay the unbeliever can't understand is that the believer actually does listen to the Lord. That means He speaks to us in that still small voice of His, and His thoughts are not out thoughts!! For that reason you understand that He does not think like you do!! Heis in fact, "The Word of God"!! And the only real way to understand that He is the Word of God is to listen to Him whose thoughts are not your thoughts!!
When applied to the above situation; it is not surprising for us to not think three persons can be One God!!! That is opposite of our thinking, but to the believer it starts becoming obvious a little after you really get to know Him. And it is obvious in the exact way we see in the beginning of the gospel of John. The verses Wrangler is having a problem with!
There is no denying that the above verse has someone whose name is called "the Word" and this person was with God in the begnning (Eternal), and this person 'The Word", was with God, and this person was God!! That is exactly what the verse says and that conflicts with our idea of One God can't mean more that one person!! So we have our thoughts, that one God must mean one person, and opposed to the Scriptures with clearly explain otherwise!! So we see a clear difference between our understanding and God's understanding, but if we don't listen to Him and have to revert to our understanding, which is obviously the problem and difference we are reading in this thread.
And it does have to do with the thread, and not just Wrangler and myself, because many posted about how their study of the Bible is something other than seeking the Lord for His thoughts!! Now some, even many, go to a Christian church and hear the pastor occasionally bring up the "Trinity"! It is a basic concept in Christianity. Unitarians are not generally found in most Christian churches. The reason is that Christianity has it foundations in hearing Jesus Christ, though many don't really listen to Him very much.
Now I did not spend most of my life in a Christain church! In fact when the Lord came into my life with the first words I heard from Him - which were "Read Your Bible", I was not going to church for quite some time. So frankly, I didn't and still do not care very much if someone knows how the "Trinity" works, but I do care that people actually seek the Lord and His voice!! Actually, knowing Him is what's important!!
Thus the problem I see in this thread is that many don't really know Him and so they don't seek Him.!!
Yet one of the obvious signs of not actually knowing Him is not knowing the His name is called "The Word of God". It always has been because His Father gave Him the words of God from the beginning!! Which is why the gospel of John starts like it does, calling Jesus Christ the "Word", and explaining how He was the "Word" even in the beginning and how He was with God and was God! That is exactly who John 1:1 is written!!
Now we read some silliness - someone trying to say the Word was not Jesus Christ??? He was the "Word" in the beginning, but being the "Word" the One who has the words of God, does mean He was always God's Salvation! The Word (the Christ) took on flesh to be God's salvation to us! Jesus means "God's Salvation" So the Word came as our Saviour (Jesus), Now this is all clearly written in the Bible, but if someone just wants to deny Jesus (God's Salvation) then they might try and point to Jn 1:1 and write something about how it doesn't call Jesus the Word in that verse. Of course that is silliness because before the first chapter of john is complete, we read that the Word that took on flesh is called Jesus!!
That has also been pointed out a few times in this thread and just ignored! That is what a person completely commited to leaning on their own understanding has to do! Most people don't want to think their thinking can be wrong, so most people don't seek the Lord, simply because if God tells them they are wrong they either have to deny God or their understanding. So my advice is that people need to seek Him and His voice anyway. Go reason with Him!! I did and He explains what we read in the Bible and soooooo much more too!
The Lord had Isaiah explain what I am talking about like this:
Is 1: 2,3 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.
“An ox knows its owner, And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know, My people do not understand.”
and
Is 1: 18
“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
Now reasoning with me does not make your sins as white as snow. Yet going and talking to the Lord and reasoning with Him does! Because what are you going to say when you to listen to the word of God and find out that Jesus Christ is the Lord???
That information alone is going to turn the world of a Unitarian around and reprove them to their core. So if they are not willing to reason with the Lord so to be reproved then they will get none of God's Salvation (Jesus)!!
Now when i pointed out this concept before, Wrangler thought I was threatening him. There is not threat from me! I am just proving the clear explanation the Scriptures provide. Receiving God's salvation means receiving Jesus Christ because He is God's salvation. And denying Jesus Christ is denying God's salvation.
We read how to receiving Him is explained in Rev 3:19,20
Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
So what we don't want to do is:
Rom 10: 6,7 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
and if you still need that connection between Jesus Christ and Him being the Word of God, just read the next two verses:
Rom 10: 8,9 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
So what do we read on this thread? Is there someone saying that Jesus Christ is not the Word, that He is not the Lord, that He is not around to be heard from. Perhaps they can find a verse in the Bible that only calls Him the Word and not Jesus Christ, or even someone denying that a person can not be called "Word", because that can't be a name at all. People can say and write what they want, according to their own understanding, but those who wrote the Bible did hear from the Word of God and knew that He was in the beginning with God and was God. They understood that knowing Him means salvation to us. They knew how the Father, Son, and Spirit are One. They knew that understanding does not come from leaning on your own understanding but from listening to Jesus Christ our Lord, our Savior, our Teacher, our Wonderful Counselor, our Might God, our Everlasting Father, and even the Prince of Peace.
If we don't have peace, it is because someone is not listening to Him! So it is that anyone who wants peace wants people to listen to Him. That is why we preach the Word of God, Jesus Christ, meaning He is always with us to talk to us. He does that by using His Holy Spirit to exchange His words with our spirit! So the Word of God, Jesus Christ, is found near us!
Understand the Bible in 10. hours????
It doesn't take that long to understand the Bible!!
The Bible is just telling you to seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him!! If you understand that you understand the Bible!
Of course Jesus Christ might use the Bible to help you understand things other things other than the Bible; like love, forgiveness, and the Kingdom of God, but Jesus Christ doesn't need the Bible to Teach you thought He seems to want to use it like a Teacher uses a text book. So it doesn't take a minute to get people understanding of the Bible, not 10.1 hours - but Jesus Christ will be teaching you for an eternity if you do understand that the Bible is getting you to seek Him!
I have been writing back and forth with someone who doesn't think Jesus Christ is the Word of God and God, but at least he was honest about how he feels and thinks. He doesn't believe in Jesus Christ and pretty much tells you so. Yet the person who says they are going to give you an understanding of the Bible in 10.1 hours is not being honest, even with themselves. They don't believe in Jesus Christ either, but are trying to supplant Him as your Teacher. But let me get you a 2 verses that explains this to you:
Jn 5:39,40“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
Look close - the Scriptures are a testimony about Jesus Christ - and a testimony that is supposed to get us to come to Jesus Christ!!! So that is the purpose for the Bible and it didn't take over ten hours to give you that understanding!!
Still the people were unwilling to come to Him so they might have life!!! So if there is another bit of understanding in the Bible it is the understanding that we are unwilling to come to Him even though we have the testimony! If you did understand the Bible then you would come to Him, if didn't get that understanding from the Bible the Bible also gives you the understanding that you are unwilling to come to Him!!
And let me help you apply that. If you seek Him daily and listen to Him, then you did get the understanding the Bible was giving you. If you don't seek Him then it is because you are unwilling to except the understanding the Bible gives you!
So both the person saying they don't believe Jesus Christ is the Word of God, and the person saying they can give you understanding of the Bible in 10.1 hours didn't get the understanding the Bible has for you! Neither one is preaching that the Word of God is near you, in your heart and in your mouth., That is where Jesus Christ speaking to you is found, because He sends His Holy Spirit to give your spirit His words!
People - the Lord wants to talk to you personally!!!!
He wants to help you personally!!!
So He wants you to seek HIm and listen to HIm!!!
Don't worry - He will almost certainly have you reading and studying the Bible. After all - what teacher does use a textbook.
Ps 83:13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me, That Israel would walk in My ways!
Understand the above verse and you understand the Bible!! Do that (listen to Him) and He will give you understanding about life - that is going to take a bit longer - eternity
10 hours is nothing compared to our secular study commitments.
It is worth checking out this overview.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Again, we've covered this. You are going beyond God's word, leaning on your own understanding of the doctrine of the trinity.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
LOL. Did his mother Mary call him to dinner that way? "The Word of God, dinner is ready." The claims just more and more preposterous.
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