How Do You Follow Jesus? By Commitment or By Faith?

[JesusIsFaithful]

How do you follow Jesus?

Do you resort to your own power in following Jesus by keeping that commitment or promise to do so?

Or...

Do you follow Jesus by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd and all His promises to us that He will help us to follow Him in laying aside every weight & sin in running that race in living as His disciple for without Him & without faith, we can do nothing?

Or do you think you are following Him by doing both?

I have learned from Him to rely on Him all the time for following Him and so He has set me free from my commitments, promises, and all other yokes of bondages wherein men can boast and rested in His Covenant to me wherein I have more to give glory and thanksgiving for in Jesus Christ's name. FYI

 

[Born_Again]

[SIZE=9.5pt]1 Peter 4:1-19 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt] “[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Christ suffered here on earth. Now you must be ready to suffer as he did, because suffering shows that you have stopped sinning. 2 [/SIZE]It means you have turned from your own desires and want to obey God for the rest of your life. 3 You have already lived long enough like people who don’t know God. You were immoral and followed your evil desires. You went around drinking and partying and carrying on. In fact, you even worshiped disgusting idols. 4 Now your former friends wonder why you have stopped running around with them, and they curse you for it. 5 But they will have to answer to God, who judges the living and the dead. 6 The good news has even been preached to the dead,[[SIZE=9pt]a[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]][/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] so that after they have been judged for what they have done in this life, their spirits will live with God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]7 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Everything will soon come to an end. So be serious and be sensible enough to pray.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]8 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Most important of all, you must sincerely love each other, because love wipes away many sins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]9 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Welcome people into your home and don’t grumble about it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]10 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Each of you has been blessed with one of God’s many wonderful gifts to be used in the service of others. So use your gift well. 11 [/SIZE]If you have the gift of speaking, preach God’s message. If you have the gift of helping others, do it with the strength that God supplies. Everything should be done in a way that will bring honor to God because of Jesus Christ, who is glorious and powerful forever. Amen.
[SIZE=9pt]Suffering for Being a Christian[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]12 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Dear friends, don’t be surprised or shocked that you are going through testing that is like walking through fire. 13 [/SIZE]Be glad for the chance to suffer as Christ suffered. It will prepare you for even greater happiness when he makes his glorious return.
[SIZE=9pt]14 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Count it a blessing when you suffer for being a Christian. This shows that God’s glorious Spirit is with you. 15 [/SIZE]But you deserve to suffer if you are a murderer, a thief, a crook, or a busybody. 16 Don’t be ashamed to suffer for being a Christian. Praise God that you belong to him. 17 God has already begun judging his own people. And if his judgment begins with us, imagine how terrible it will be for those who refuse to obey his message. The Scriptures say,
[SIZE=9pt]18 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]“If good people barely escape,
what will happen to sinners[/SIZE]
and to others
who don’t respect God?”
[SIZE=9pt]19 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]If you suffer for obeying God, you must have complete faith in your faithful Creator and keep on doing right.[/SIZE]


It is a combination of both.

BA

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

[SIZE=9.5pt]1 Peter 4:1-19 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt] “[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Christ suffered here on earth. Now you must be ready to suffer as he did, because suffering shows that you have stopped sinning. 2 [/SIZE]It means you have turned from your own desires and want to obey God for the rest of your life. 3 You have already lived long enough like people who don’t know God. You were immoral and followed your evil desires. You went around drinking and partying and carrying on. In fact, you even worshiped disgusting idols. 4 Now your former friends wonder why you have stopped running around with them, and they curse you for it. 5 But they will have to answer to God, who judges the living and the dead. 6 The good news has even been preached to the dead,[[SIZE=9pt]a[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]][/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] so that after they have been judged for what they have done in this life, their spirits will live with God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]7 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Everything will soon come to an end. So be serious and be sensible enough to pray.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]8 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Most important of all, you must sincerely love each other, because love wipes away many sins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]9 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Welcome people into your home and don’t grumble about it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]10 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Each of you has been blessed with one of God’s many wonderful gifts to be used in the service of others. So use your gift well. 11 [/SIZE]If you have the gift of speaking, preach God’s message. If you have the gift of helping others, do it with the strength that God supplies. Everything should be done in a way that will bring honor to God because of Jesus Christ, who is glorious and powerful forever. Amen.
[SIZE=9pt]Suffering for Being a Christian[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]12 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Dear friends, don’t be surprised or shocked that you are going through testing that is like walking through fire. 13 [/SIZE]Be glad for the chance to suffer as Christ suffered. It will prepare you for even greater happiness when he makes his glorious return.
[SIZE=9pt]14 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Count it a blessing when you suffer for being a Christian. This shows that God’s glorious Spirit is with you. 15 [/SIZE]But you deserve to suffer if you are a murderer, a thief, a crook, or a busybody. 16 Don’t be ashamed to suffer for being a Christian. Praise God that you belong to him. 17 God has already begun judging his own people. And if his judgment begins with us, imagine how terrible it will be for those who refuse to obey his message. The Scriptures say,
[SIZE=9pt]18 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]“If good people barely escape,
what will happen to sinners[/SIZE]
and to others
who don’t respect God?”
[SIZE=9pt]19 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]If you suffer for obeying God, you must have complete faith in your faithful Creator and keep on doing right.[/SIZE]


It is a combination of both.

BA

I am not sure what Bible version you are using, but may I ask you to read that portion in the King James Bible and note any chnage in the message given as being entirely different than the version you were using?

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. 8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. 9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

One notable difference is that the well doing in verse 19 of the KJV is testifying of our faithful Creator in how well He is keeping our souls when we suffer whereas your version seems to emphasize to continue to do what is right while they suffer for God.

The other is changing out gospel in the KJV to His message in your version of verse 17. Obeying the gospel is by believing in Him whereas His message in verse 17 would be about obeying everything He has said in "respecting God" in verse 18 which is not what Peter was writing about.

Another is verse 9 whereas hospitality is how you treat others and not about welcoming people into your home without grudgingly.

You may spot more differences between the two versions, but I understad by the use of your version why you would believe it is both which I disagree with. Either we follow Him by trusting Him to help us to follow Him and His words or... we are resorting to our own power by keeping that commitment to do so in following Him.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Philippians 3:1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Would you rather be a witness of Him by declaring your faith in Him for following Him or would you rather be a witness of yourself in how you are following Him by keeping that commitment which goes to your glory; not His?

 

[Born_Again]

"Either we follow Him by trusting Him to help us to follow Him and His words or... we are resorting to our own power by keeping that commitment to do so in following Him."

You do understand how contradictive that statement sounds, don't you?

Yes, you follow Him by trusting Him but you don't just sit around waiting for life to happen either. This is where your own power comes in as well.

I don't remember what version that was but I would also like to note that the KJV is not the authority. Also, how we view scripture is up for interpretation. I personally use NIV. Take into consideration when the KJV was translated and what words meant during that time period. I'm not saying NIV is the authority either, I am simply saying as you don't like the translation I posted, it doesn't mean the KJV is exactly correct either.

 

[Angelina]

I am simply saying as you don't like the translation I posted, it doesn't mean the KJV is exactly correct either

That is why I tend to use a combination of bibles to get a better perspective of meaning ~ NIV84, NKJV, NKJV, NASB, Amplified

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

"Either we follow Him by trusting Him to help us to follow Him and His words or... we are resorting to our own power by keeping that commitment to do so in following Him."

You do understand how contradictive that statement sounds, don't you?

Yes, you follow Him by trusting Him but you don't just sit around waiting for life to happen either. This is where your own power comes in as well.

I don't remember what version that was but I would also like to note that the KJV is not the authority. Also, how we view scripture is up for interpretation. I personally use NIV. Take into consideration when the KJV was translated and what words meant during that time period. I'm not saying NIV is the authority either, I am simply saying as you don't like the translation I posted, it doesn't mean the KJV is exactly correct either.

You cannot be sitting around waiting for life to happen if you are looking to Him for help in following Him. That is a reconciled relationship based on trust which is active.

Looking to yourself to follow Him by keeping that commitment to do so is the same as saying, I trust you Jesus, but I want to see how much I can do by keeping that commitment to follow you all by myself.

Either we live by faith... or we are religiously following Him which is after the rudiment found in the world in how other religious people can relate to.

If one defers from the KJV as the authority, then one is admitting that not all Bibles are saying the same thing; and therefore evidence of Jesus's prophesy from the Father that there will be those that do not love Him as they will not keep His words.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Seeing how the source origin for the manuscripts that made up the TR is from Antioch where the disciples studied for a year in the word, and the source origin for the manuscripts used for all modern Bibles are from Alexandria where poetic licensing and gnosticism have been known to exists, then in according to His words of John 14:23-24 & John 15:20, I shall stick with the KJV for the meat of His words as I thank Jesus Christ for seeing which Bible loved Him to keep His words for His disciples to follow.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

As it is, all modern Bibles have changed certain key verses that supports apostasy in these latter days where faith is hard to find whereas the Lord helps me to see the KJV as keeping His words for me to discern & reprove false teachings by. I know I cannot help any one see that truth. It is up to each saved believer to ask Jesus for wisdom in seeing this truth which explains why all modern Bibles are not saying the same thing and why believers are going astray by false teachings out of those selected changed verses.

That is why I tend to use a combination of bibles to get a better perspective of meaning ~ NIV84, NKJV, NKJV, NASB, Amplified

Wisodm comes from the Lord in helping you to understand why His words in the KJV has been kept by those that loved Him & His words.

With all of the modern Bibles out there supposedly created for an easier to read Bible than the KJV, they are still at it which goes to show the futility of looking to man in creating an easier to read Bible when we all need to go to Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in understanding His words.

 

[Born_Again]

You cannot be sitting around waiting for life to happen if you are looking to Him for help in following Him. That is a reconciled relationship based on trust which is active.

Looking to yourself to follow Him by keeping that commitment to do so is the same as saying, I trust you Jesus, but I want to see how much I can do by keeping that commitment to follow you all by myself.

Either we live by faith... or we are religiously following Him which is after the rudiment found in the world in how other religious people can relate to.

If one defers from the KJV as the authority, then one is admitting that not all Bibles are saying the same thing; and therefore evidence of Jesus's prophesy from the Father that there will be those that do not love Him as they will not keep His words.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Seeing how the source origin for the manuscripts that made up the TR is from Antioch where the disciples studied for a year in the word, and the source origin for the manuscripts used for all modern Bibles are from Alexandria where poetic licensing and gnosticism have been known to exists, then in according to His words of John 14:23-24 & John 15:20, I shall stick with the KJV for the meat of His words as I thank Jesus Christ for seeing which Bible loved Him to keep His words for His disciples to follow.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

As it is, all modern Bibles have changed certain key verses that supports apostasy in these latter days where faith is hard to find whereas the Lord helps me to see the KJV as keeping His words for me to discern & reprove false teachings by. I know I cannot help any one see that truth. It is up to each saved believer to ask Jesus for wisdom in seeing this truth which explains why all modern Bibles are not saying the same thing and why believers are going astray by false teachings out of those selected changed verses.


Wisodm comes from the Lord in helping you to understand why His words in the KJV has been kept by those that loved Him & His words.

With all of the modern Bibles out there supposedly created for an easier to read Bible than the KJV, they are still at it which goes to show the futility of looking to man in creating an easier to read Bible when we all need to go to Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in understanding His words.

Okay, this still isn't clicking. Yes, you live by faith, but you also, at that point still have free will and the responsibility to maintain faithfulness. The devil doesn't stop tempting you once you follow Christ. People fall. This is where His mercy and compassion come into play. He can take you back. I stand firm that it takes both. I respect your OPINION as it is just that. But I will not waiver.

So many people get lost in semantics and miss the message of Christ completely. Like Angelina said, and most of us do, consult many different version on the Bible to get a more rounded, and more educated view of scripture to get a better understanding. There are a few newer versions I don't agree with because it has in fact dumbed the word down too much. I have no qualms with KJV but I don't generally consult it.

 

[Angelina]

Wisodm comes from the Lord in helping you to understand why His words in the KJV has been kept by those that loved Him & His words.
With all of the modern Bibles out there supposedly created for an easier to read Bible than the KJV, they are still at it which goes to show the futility of looking to man in creating an easier to read Bible when we all need to go to Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in understanding His words.

You speak from the perspective of believing that the KJV is the only bible that is authentic. That kind of belief is like saying that the Catholic Church is the only true Church because it was the first Church supposedly instigated by Peter in Rome ~ So why aren't you a Catholic? :wacko:

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Okay, this still isn't clicking. Yes, you live by faith, but you also, at that point still have free will and the responsibility to maintain faithfulness. The devil doesn't stop tempting you once you follow Christ. People fall. This is where His mercy and compassion come into play. He can take you back. I stand firm that it takes both. I respect your OPINION as it is just that. But I will not waiver.

So many people get lost in semantics and miss the message of Christ completely. Like Angelina said, and most of us do, consult many different version on the Bible to get a more rounded, and more educated view of scripture to get a better understanding. There are a few newer versions I don't agree with because it has in fact dumbed the word down too much. I have no qualms with KJV but I don't generally consult it.

The only exercise of free will is to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us follow Him.

It is not semantics when believers condemn other believers as not saved nor serious about following Jesus by their commitments. They accuse them of having their fingers crossed and so forth and so on because as you say, they sometime fail. And yet the accusers will have the audacity to claim to that they have kept their commitment to follow Christ without ever breaking it, thus giving themselves grace for keeping that commitment as if they had never sinned, and thus being a false witness on top of that.

I former church member was telling others in the foyer how hard it was for him to keep his commitment because ever since he had made it, the devil was after him to break it. He said that living the christian life was hard. Then he went on to declare that little children should not make any commitments to follow Christ because they don't know what they are getting into to. I walked by that without saying a word, but the Lord reminded me through the Holy Spirit all of those red flags as to why a believer cannot follow Him by trying to keep that commitment to follow Christ because...

Jesus invited lttle children to come to Him and all they can do is trust the Lord...

It is the religious people that have trouble living only by faith in Jesus Christ in following Him as they need commitments & promises for men to judge them by to praise them by.

Alcoholic Anonymous & Narcotics Anonymous all speak of commitments and a higher power; one can choose any higher power like a tree and they will give credit to that higher power BUT... eyes will roll in the group because each member gets a coin for their accomplishment in keeping THEIR commitment by their will & by their effort.

That leads to the false and fading glory of man and why a believer cannot speak of that commitment to follow Christ if the power in following Him is truly by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd.

Indeed, one woman was led to believe she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus and what led her to believe that unless there was that religious guantlet in front of her about coming to Christ by making that commitment to follow Him. Fortunately, the Lord was able to convince her that she did not need to wait until she cleaned up her life first because that is His job, to deliver her from her sins when Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners.

So no... no good tree will produce a bad fruit and no evil tree will produce a good fruit and that commitment is found in the world of religions, self help, and the business world wherein men can boast in and yet no flesh shall glory in His Presence.

We follow Him by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd. We do not resort to our own power to following Him. If we did not do it in saving ourselves for we surrendered and believed in Him, then we are to continue to surrender and believe in Him that He will help us to follow Him.

Commitments lead sinners away and break religious christians in seeing that christianity doesn't work because they cannot finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit; but when we testify NOT of ourselves but of ONLY our hope in Jesus Christ for eternal life as well as for the abundant life for living as His by the grace of God, sinners will be converted to Him seeing that same hope as well because they know they need God for everything.

I tell you the truth; any one seeking to be identified as His by keeping that commitment to follow Him run the risk of being left behind because no flesh shall glory in His Presence at the Marriage Supper held in His honour.

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Either our confidence truly resting in Him to finish, or it is not and we are trying the best we can in finishing it for Him by keeping that commitment to follow Him.... and failing. This is a work of iniquity that will be seen as denying Him as able to finish the race for us, and I believe believers will be left behind for it.

God has helped me to see why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith... because man cannot do it by his flesh at all.

You speak from the perspective of believing that the KJV is the only bible that is authentic. That kind of belief is like saying that the Catholic Church is the only true Church because it was the first Church supposedly instigated by Peter in Rome ~ So why aren't you a Catholic? :wacko:

Only Jesus can show you which Bible loves Him in keeping His words by His disciples after having given the warning that there will be necessity for discernment; John 14:23-24 & John 15:20

Acts 11:26 testify of when the disciples were first called christian at Antioch where the source origin documents for the TR from which the King James Bible was translated from has come from. That was the place where they studied for a year.

Alexandria is the source origin documents for all modern Bibles where poetic licensing and gnosticism as known to exists.

Now according to the prophetic warning given by Jesus from the Father on John 14:24; which Bible should you be relying on?

Or are you believing that Jesus did not really warn us that this will come about & that He was talking about something else?

 

[Angelina]

Only Jesus can show you which Bible loves Him in keeping His words by His disciples after having given the warning that there will be necessity for discernment; John 14:23-24 & John 15:20

Well the KJV is the least likely bible that I would use, especially with new believers, mainly because of it's archaic language. If it were 100% error free then it would not have been revised 4 times between 1611 ~ 1769.
Major and minor revisions of the KJV were also made in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, and 1850 which included hundreds of Orthographic changes.

Acts 11:26 testify of when the disciples were first called christian at Antioch where the source origin documents for the TR from which the King James Bible was translated from has come from. That was the place where they studied for a year.

If the TR was correct, then why are the last 6 verses of Revelation absent in the TR, yet present in the KJV? :huh:

Alexandria is the source origin documents for all modern Bibles where poetic licensing and gnosticism as known to exists.

KJV onlyers limit God by their belief that there is only one true bible translation ~ the1611 KJV when history tells us [and I'm not an American] that the Pilgrim Fathers brought the Geneva Bible translation with them to North America.

Now according to the prophetic warning given by Jesus from the Father on John 14:24; which Bible should you be relying on?
Or are you believing that Jesus did not really warn us that this will come about & that He was talking about something else?

You have convinced me to rely on the bibles I already have which is the NIV84, NKJV, KJV, NASB and the Amplified ~ Thank you!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Well the KJV is the least likely bible that I would use, especially with new believers, mainly because of it's archaic language. If it were 100% error free then it would not have been revised 4 times between 1611 ~ 1769.
Major and minor revisions of the KJV were also made in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, and 1850 which included hundreds of Orthographic changes.

Publishing errors, but the message remains the same. Modern Bibles cannot hold a candle to that.

If the TR was correct, then why are the last 6 verses of Revelation absent in the TR, yet present in the KJV?

Ahah! I finally figured out how to separate the quotes now. Okay.

I am not sure if you are recollecting that bit of info correctly. I believe the question was based on the last six verses of Revelations were not present in the Greek manuscripts; rather than being missing from the TR, because how else would those last six verses be present in the 1599 Geneva Bible as shown at this link at Bible Gateway below?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelations%2022%3A16-&version=GNV;KJV

But the explanation as to why Erasmus "added" those last six verses in the TR can be found at this link below which is from an excerpt from Dr. Holland's "Crowned With Glory" used with permission at this KJV's site.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/holland_re22_19.html

KJV onlyers limit God by their belief that there is only one true bible translation ~ the1611 KJV when history tells us [and I'm not an American] that the Pilgrim Fathers brought the Geneva Bible translation with them to North America.

Since Pilgrims came to America in 1620, and the KJV was published in 1611, I am sure it was not available as much to be purchased as one would think today so the Pilgrims just having a Geneva Bible does not deter the fact that it was the puritans that had asked King James for a new translations of the Bible as shared from an excerpt from "Final Authority; A Christian Guide to the King James Bible" referenced by David W. Daniels at this chick site below.

http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/authorized.asp

You have convinced me to rely on the bibles I already have which is the NIV84, NKJV, KJV, NASB and the Amplified ~ Thank you!

Was that a sarcastic comment? I would rather you had posted that the Lord had convinced you of this but I reckon I can only hope that the Lord will give you pause to reconsider your stance on this issue and see the value of the KJV over all modern Bibles.

Let's examine the KJV against those four other versions that you have selected on one verse. 1 Corinthians 1:18 at this link:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201%3A18&version=KJV;NIV;NKJV;NASB;AMP

Now let's say you derive your understanding by comparing all of them and what? The majority wins on what the message is? Then the KJV would lose out and the false teaching that is out there that we are not saved yet and that we are working towards our salvation remains unreproved by the KJV while supported by the modern Bible versions you have selected.

This is a prime example of why one Bible needs to be emphasized on in order to have the meat of His words to discern good & evil in these latter days, because you & I would be hard pressed to correct any one of those false teachings if we were to use many Bibles with the KJV to find the truth in His words.

 

[Born_Again]

Okay, so even if we used one bible translation only, I am still not convinced the KJV would be it. Don't get me wrong, you have put up a good argument for your point, but I'm just not convinced. You mentioned earlier that Angelina should have said "God told her.... etc.." Well, I don't feel that the KJV being the authority is correct or from God for that matter. I'm not saying its not a valid scripture because it is, however, it certainly is not the authority. Now, unless you have a "red phone" to God and you can confirm on His behalf with proof other than interpreted scripture, I'm not going to be sold. And don't come back with a bunch of scripture you interpret to mean the KJV is the one true bible. You have already plead that case.

BA

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Okay, so even if we used one bible translation only, I am still not convinced the KJV would be it. Don't get me wrong, you have put up a good argument for your point, but I'm just not convinced. You mentioned earlier that Angelina should have said "God told her.... etc.." Well, I don't feel that the KJV being the authority is correct or from God for that matter. I'm not saying its not a valid scripture because it is, however, it certainly is not the authority. Now, unless you have a "red phone" to God and you can confirm on His behalf with proof other than interpreted scripture, I'm not going to be sold. And don't come back with a bunch of scripture you interpret to mean the KJV is the one true bible. You have already plead that case.

BA

Let scripture testify which Bible is true to His words then without referring to the prophetic warning. Here's the guidelines;

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

So basically... there should be no lies in any Bible version, and the Lord Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd will help us to see that through the Holy Spirit in us.

The other guideline is changing His words that would decline from the testimony of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

To be His disciple is to have the meat of His words to discern good and evil and so if the Bible version changes His words that supports false teachings and apostasy whereas the KJV retains the actual message in keeping with other parts of scripture in lining up with the truth to expose it as a work of darkness, then those that loved Him & His words would find the KJV the one to rely on since keeping the faith is the good fight.

I do point out that cults have used and can use the KJV, but I noticed when I use the KJV to prove them wrong, they resort to another modern Bible or even Bible.NET to get out of the clear reproof of their false teachings.

Anyway, pick a modern Bible, and we can compare them to see which Bible is keeping the truth in His words and why the KJV is the one to rely on when modern Bibles are supporting false teachings since keeping the faith is the good fight which can only be done by His grace & by His help.

 

[heretoeternity]

James 2 "faith without works is dead", and Rev 22 Behold I come quickly and my reward is with me for every man according to his works...and Paul in Romans..do we make void the law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law...

Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT and sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

James 2 "faith without works is dead",

Prove that James was talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation rather than rebuking the church for verbalizing faith in God's Providence to the poor to get out of helping the poor when they had the measn to meet their immediate needs from the bounty collected after service, because in conext, James was addressing the misuse of faith in God's Providence without leading by example to the poor.

and Rev 22 Behold I come quickly and my reward is with me for every man according to his works..

It all depends on what they build on that foundation; works of the flesh or dead works that deny Him or fruits of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ ( Galatians 5:1,5 & Philippians 1:6,11 ) I dare you to look those verses up.

We have this warning of God judging the works of this church:

Revelations 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Those that do not repent of this iniquity will be judged with being left behind to face the coming great tribulation & death. Why?

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Did you see any church being rebuked for not keeping the sabbath day in Revelations? And yet it is everywhere today.

and Paul in Romans..do we make void the law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law...

Keep reading, brother;

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

We are not required to keep the sabbath day any more othewise self proclaimed sabbath day keepers will be judged on how well they had kept that law; and it will not be pretty when they failed to save themselves in keeping that commandment.

Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT and sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

So is Jesus your Saviour or are you your own saviour for keeping the sabbath day as well as the rest of the commandments?

Did Jesus consider being raised from the dead on a different day of the week because of Sunday being the devil's day? But, wait. Sunday has been called the Lord's day too. Satan doesn't get a day nor a time at all in this world in His eyes.

Mark 16:9Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Revelations 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day....

This is why Jesus is Lord of the sabbath day as He is able to make any believer stand.

Romans 10: 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ

 

[heretoeternity]

I suppose you would want true Christians to believe the scriptures as written by JIF, and not the plains words in the Bible...hmmm..explains a lot of why "christianity" is in such disarray as it is....JIF..do not add or subtract to the word of God, and written in Deuteronomy and Revelation...stick with the plain, clear words written in the Bible,which as Peter says are not open to your private interpretation.

And remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and not the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan/satanic origin.

 

[Born_Again]

So, if you are strictly KJV, then you already have a preconceived notion of how each Bible should read after that. That seems more bias than open minded to any other version. And, from all the version I have read, they all seem to be pretty close when it comes to what is written in red. The NT is the new covenant. Yes there are many words of encouragement and how to live in the OT, and commandments. But the NT is the message of Christ. I don't know how you could mess up a message like LOVE. If you truly love as Christ loves, then the rest of what God commands pretty much falls into place. If you have love, mercy, and compassion for your fellow brethren on earth and live as Christ has lived then you are well on your way. Here is one of the greatest chapters in the NT.... It comes from the NIV....... Yet, the message is still the same... hmmmmm

1 Corinthians 13 New International Version (NIV)
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


LOVE :wub:

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I did not mention the point of relying only on the KJV in post #15, and I would not want any believer to take me at my word since we are to prove everything with His help and so you guys need to go to the Good Shepherd for His wisdom as only God can cause the increase as only Jesus can confirm the word He had me shared with you today.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth....26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

 

[Born_Again]

"only God can cause the increase as only Jesus can confirm the word He had me shared with you today"

So, don't blame you, blame Jesus? I hardly feel that is a reasonable answer. God is telling you to interpret the scripture this way? How do you know you are hearing Him correctly or even hearing Him for that matter? Honest question.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

I suppose you would want true Christians to believe the scriptures as written by JIF, and not the plains words in the Bible...hmmm..explains a lot of why "christianity" is in such disarray as it is....JIF..do not add or subtract to the word of God, and written in Deuteronomy and Revelation...stick with the plain, clear words written in the Bible,which as Peter says are not open to your private interpretation.

And remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and not the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan/satanic origin.

Why are you ignoring the challenges I made to you in order to prove your points?

If you think that they are too strict, or that they are incorrect then just let me know.