How Important is doctrine? Part 1

[Episkopos]

In this part 1 of a series on the importance of doctrine we begin with what the bible has to say on the subject. We should ask ourselves...what is the doctrine I have believed doing for my obedience to God's commandments? What have I become based on what I believe? Am I still open to correction from the scriptures...or am I satisfied with my own grasp of what the bible teaches?

 

[Lizbeth]

okay, so it's prideful and not humble for "lower walk" believers to believe imputed righteousness applies to themselves, but it is perfectly fine and not prideful or lacking humility when "higher walk" believers believe it applies to them.....and even solely to them to boot? Hmmm...

In no way is it prideful and lacking humility to simply believe in and trust in what JESUS accomplished on the cross for us, like a little child believes and trusts......that implies an acknowledgement that we need Him because we are not righteous in our own selves, which takes humility in itself. It is only in Him and by Him and for Him that we have His righteousness...it is not of our own.

But if some individuals in the church want to sit on their laurels and be smug and prideful about it that is on them and their heart....in such cases that is self-righteousness, not the righteousness of Christ......it is not the fault of the doctrine.

 

[Episkopos]

okay, so it's prideful and not humble for "lower walk" believers to believe imputed righteousness applies to themselves,

Correct. No person can justify themselves based on ANYTHING they do...whether by works or imagined beliefs about God.

And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
Ps 143:2


People are brainwashed to CLAIM to be righteous...just like the Pharisees believed they were righteous. But today's self-righteous are WORSE than the Pharisees. More spoiled...believing they are justified at the level of God Himself for just acting naturally. No obedience required.

but it is perfectly fine and not prideful or lacking humility when "higher walk" believers believe it applies to them.....and even solely to them to boot? Hmmm...

No righteous person claims to be righteous. No humble person claims to be humble. A truly elevated saint only claims to be an unprofitable servant. ALL the justification claims comes from the pretenders. I have never claimed to be righteous on any level. I am presently LEARNING righteousness. And I'm hoping that other fellow believers take an interest in the ways of God apart from a religious indoctrination from men. I am a student of righteousness...looking to the poor and the poor in spirit for instruction...as well as the scriptures of course.

In no way is it prideful and lacking humility to simply believe in and trust in what JESUS accomplished on the cross for us,

That's not the point. It's what we DO with that. The point of Jesus sacrifice is not to have people claim to be righteous for it. No human exploitation of what God does is permissible...short of condemnation and rejection.

like a little child believes and trusts......that implies an acknowledgement that we need Him because we are not righteous in our own selves, which takes humility in itself.

Not so fast. A person who is self-righteous by nature will opt for a better claim of righteousness. It's like a man who has a thousand dollars and claims to be rich will all the more claim to be rich if he has 2,000 dollars. Listen to what Jesus says about the Laodiceans...and follow the logic.

It is only in Him and by Him and for Him that we have His righteousness...it is not of our own.

What is the proof that you have any other righteousness than your own...a reading of the bible? A name it claim it perspective?
Even those who have indeed walked under the covering righteousness of God have no guarantee that they will be able to continue in it. Hence we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The smugness with which so many evangelicals hold their salvation status proves these have had no real contact with a holy God. So much is counterfeit and based on fables...as Paul warns.

But if some individuals in the church want to sit on their laurels and be smug and prideful about it that is on them and their heart....in such cases that is self-righteousness, not the righteousness of Christ......it is not the fault of the doctrine.

It's the doctrine that creates the free-loading. You could say that the people who died on the atomic bombing of Hiroshima were not really victims of the war... they were just anomalies, since not many cities were seen to suffer the same way. (apart from Nagasaki)

 

[Lizbeth]

Correct. No person can justify themselves based on ANYTHING they do...whether by works or imagined beliefs about God.

And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
Ps 143:2


People are brainwashed to CLAIM to be righteous...just like the Pharisees believed they were righteous. But today's self-righteous are WORSE than the Pharisees. More spoiled...believing they are justified at the level of God Himself for just acting naturally. No obedience required.

You're being coy....as you well know I was not agreeing with your statement.

No righteous person claims to be righteous. No humble person claims to be humble. A truly elevated saint only claims to be an unprofitable servant. ALL the justification claims comes from the pretenders. I have never claimed to be righteous on any level. I am presently LEARNING righteousness. And I'm hoping that other fellow believers take an interest in the ways of God apart from a religious indoctrination from men. I am a student of righteousness...looking to the poor and the poor in spirit for instruction...as well as the scriptures of course.

Those scriptures were written for us to believe and receive. It's safe to assume the apostle didn't bring that enlightenment for no reason. And if it's not right for "lower walk" believers to believe/receive it, then of course it's just as prideful and un-humble for "higher walk" people to believe it.........as I am sure you perfectly understood my point.

And that is all we are doing.....believing what the word says about our status in the Lord......not ascribing the righteousness as being from our own selves. Not even claiming to be fully living up to what has been imputed to us....but running the race so as to get there.

Not so fast. A person who is self-righteous by nature will opt for a better claim of righteousness. It's like a man who has a thousand dollars and claims to be rich will all the more claim to be rich if he has 2,000 dollars. Listen to what Jesus says about the Laodiceans...and follow the logic.

The Laodiceans will have to answer for themselves. It doesn't mean everyone who believes imputed righteousness applies to them automatically must have that same attitude as the Laodiceans. I hope some of us aren't so obtuse as to believe there is no difference between what has been imputed and what one is actually walking in and living up to. They are two separate questions/issues.

What is the proof that you have any other righteousness than your own...a reading of the bible? A name it claim it perspective?
Even those who have indeed walked under the covering righteousness of God have no guarantee that they will be able to continue in it. Hence we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The smugness with which so many evangelicals hold their salvation status proves these have had no real contact with a holy God. So much is counterfeit and based on fables...as Paul warns.

Nobody owes you any proof. But Christ in us is the proof because HE is our righteousness. And I would say those who are paying a price to follow/obey the Lord in sincerity is a good indication they are going in the right direction.

It's the doctrine that creates the free-loading. You could say that the people who died on the atomic bombing of Hiroshima were not really victims of the war... they were just anomalies, since not many cities were seen to suffer the same way. (apart from Nagasaki)

No it isn't that doctrine that creates free-loading as you put it. It's isolating that doctrine and ignoring everything else the scriptures teach that leads astray......like so many issues.

 

[Augustin56]

Doctrines are teachings based on Divine Revelation given the Apostles by Christ. So, the real question is, are the teachings of Christ important? I would say, without hesitation, yes.

 

[mailmandan]

okay, so it's prideful and not humble for "lower walk" believers to believe imputed righteousness applies to themselves, but it is perfectly fine and not prideful or lacking humility when "higher walk" believers believe it applies to them.....and even solely to them to boot? Hmmm...

In no way is it prideful and lacking humility to simply believe in and trust in what JESUS accomplished on the cross for us, like a little child believes and trusts......that implies an acknowledgement that we need Him because we are not righteous in our own selves, which takes humility in itself. It is only in Him and by Him and for Him that we have His righteousness...it is not of our own.

But if some individuals in the church want to sit on their laurels and be smug and prideful about it that is on them and their heart....in such cases that is self-righteousness, not the righteousness of Christ......it is not the fault of the doctrine.

Amen! Salvation is not about the gospel according to SELF.

SELF promotion
SELF righteousness
SELF preservation

Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you; this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

 

[bdavidc]

In this part 1 of a series on the importance of doctrine we begin with what the bible has to say on the subject. We should ask ourselves...what is the doctrine I have believed doing for my obedience to God's commandments? What have I become based on what I believe? Am I still open to correction from the scriptures...or am I satisfied with my own grasp of what the bible teaches?

Doctrine is not the property of the well-to-do or well-educated, it is the life-giving truth that goes to anyone who believes. “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” ~Matthew 4:4. The word of God sustains the poor and the rich, the weak and the strong. Scripture knows no such distinction between those who “need” doctrine and those who do not. The gospel itself is doctrine, the truth of God revealed.

The claim that some people are beyond the reach of doctrine or only judged on the basis of their circumstances is unbiblical. God “shows no partiality” ~Romans 2:11. Lazarus was not consoled in death because he was poor but because his heart trusted in God. The rich man was not judged for his wealth but for unbelief and a hard heart ~Luke 16:19-31. Jesus calls all people to repent and believe the gospel ~Mark 1:15. Whether rich or poor, each will stand before God and give account to Him ~Romans 14:12.

Scripture also disproves the assertion that salvation is a combination of our work and God’s work. It says, “By grace you have been saved through faith… not of works, lest anyone should boast” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. We do not “cooperate” into salvation, we obey because of salvation. Our works give evidence that faith is genuine ~James 2: 17, but they can never earn God’s favor.

And yes, the believer does have the righteousness of God, but not an earning righteousness. “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” ~2 Corinthians 5:21. To deny that is to deny the finished work of Christ. We confess we are unworthy servants, but we also rejoice that in God’s eyes we are counted righteous by faith in His Son ~Romans 5:1.

Sound doctrine is important because it protects us from the counterfeit. “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for doctrine… that the man of God may be complete” ~2 Timothy 3:16-17. The moment we determine that portions of God’s Word no longer apply to us, we open the door for deception to enter our lives. The real question is not whether doctrine is important, but whether we are humble enough to let God’s Word correct us.

True doctrine is not man’s speculation but the revealed truth of God found in Scripture. Jesus said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me” ~John 7:16. It agrees with His words, leads to holiness, and produces love from a pure heart ~1 Timothy 1:5. Any teaching that turns the focus to self-effort or worldly reasoning is false. True doctrine magnifies Christ, exposes sin, and shapes us into His likeness.

Doctrine is not just information, it is transformation. Sound doctrine leads us to deeper obedience, not pride. “If you love Me, keep My commandments” ~John 14:15. What we believe always shapes what we become. And if our belief no longer corrects us, it’s no longer rooted in Scripture but in self. The Word of God is “living and active… discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart” ~Hebrews 4:12. True doctrine will humble us and bring us back to the feet of Christ every time.

 

[Episkopos]

Doctrine is not the property of the well-to-do or well-educated, it is the life-giving truth that goes to anyone who believes. “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” ~Matthew 4:4. The word of God sustains the poor and the rich, the weak and the strong. Scripture knows no such distinction between those who “need” doctrine and those who do not. The gospel itself is doctrine, the truth of God revealed.

That's not what we are presented with in the bible. The stories that Jesus told help us with forming a sound doctrine based on understanding what God sees as doing right. But, as I state in the video...not everyone has the same level of choices.

Lazarus in the parable had no choices to make. He suffered and died without anyone caring. God cared.

But the rich man had vastly more choice in the matter. He even wanted to warn his brothers who were likewise under the "deceitfulness" of riches. So I think you are missing the lesson...

The claim that some people are beyond the reach of doctrine or only judged on the basis of their circumstances is unbiblical. God “shows no partiality” ~Romans 2:11. Lazarus was not consoled in death because he was poor but because his heart trusted in God. The rich man was not judged for his wealth but for unbelief and a hard heart ~Luke 16:19-31. Jesus calls all people to repent and believe the gospel ~Mark 1:15. Whether rich or poor, each will stand before God and give account to Him ~Romans 14:12.

This is patently false...as the verses I cited in the video show. The bible doesn't say...it's harder for a poor man to enter into the kingdom. It's about our perceived need. For example...right now you don't think you have anything to learn from the video..

Scripture also disproves the assertion that salvation is a combination of our work and God’s work.

Dogmatic beliefs would seek to disprove what the bible plainly states...IF one has not been previously indoctrinated into a salvation scheme that was invented by men.

It says, “By grace you have been saved through faith… not of works, lest anyone should boast” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. We do not “cooperate” into salvation, we obey because of salvation. Our works give evidence that faith is genuine ~James 2: 17, but they can never earn God’s favor.

God gives grace to the humble. It doesn't say...God gives humility. Obedience and humility is ON US. You may have to re-consider your dogmas.

And yes, the believer does have the righteousness of God, but not an earning righteousness. “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” ~2 Corinthians 5:21. To deny that is to deny the finished work of Christ. We confess we are unworthy servants, but we also rejoice that in God’s eyes we are counted righteous by faith in His Son ~Romans 5:1.

We claim to be unworthy AFTER we have DONE ALL. God only judges us based on righteousness....whether we had any. That's why God loves the righteous. There are 2 levels of righteousness. Our mission on earth is to fulfill ALL (both kinds of) righteousness, just as Jesus did.

Sound doctrine is important because it protects us from the counterfeit. “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for doctrine… that the man of God may be complete” ~2 Timothy 3:16-17. The moment we determine that portions of God’s Word no longer apply to us, we open the door for deception to enter our lives. The real question is not whether doctrine is important, but whether we are humble enough to let God’s Word correct us.

Exactly. The modern gospel cancels most of the scriptures and focuses on a bad reading of Paul.

True doctrine is not man’s speculation but the revealed truth of God found in Scripture. Jesus said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me” ~John 7:16. It agrees with His words, leads to holiness, and produces love from a pure heart ~1 Timothy 1:5. Any teaching that turns the focus to self-effort or worldly reasoning is false. True doctrine magnifies Christ, exposes sin, and shapes us into His likeness.

Doctrine is not just information, it is transformation. Sound doctrine leads us to deeper obedience, not pride. “If you love Me, keep My commandments” ~John 14:15. What we believe always shapes what we become. And if our belief no longer corrects us, it’s no longer rooted in Scripture but in self. The Word of God is “living and active… discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart” ~Hebrews 4:12. True doctrine will humble us and bring us back to the feet of Christ every time.

Amen.

 

[Episkopos]

Those scriptures were written for us to believe and receive.

Or as you mean...to name and claim. That is false. We are meant to be reconciled to God...not be reconciled to dogmas.

 

[bdavidc]

That's not what we are presented with in the bible. The stories that Jesus told help us with forming a sound doctrine based on understanding what God sees as doing right.

You’re mixing what God completed with what man does. Jesus didn’t give parables to take the place of doctrine, He used them to teach it. Every story revealed truth about the kingdom. The Bible never divides people by class or opportunity. God “shows no partiality” ~Romans 2:11. Both rich and poor stand before Him on the same ground, faith or unbelief.

Lazarus wasn’t saved for being poor, and the rich man wasn’t condemned for being rich. The issue was faith. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” ~Hebrews 11:6.

Grace doesn’t wait for obedience; grace produces obedience. “By grace you have been saved through faith… not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. When you turn grace into something earned, you cancel it. “If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain” ~Galatians 2:21.

There aren’t two levels of righteousness. There’s only one that counts, Christ’s. “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” ~2 Corinthians 5:21. Our own righteousness doesn’t measure up. Isaiah called it “filthy rags” ~Isaiah 64:6.

Paul’s writings don’t need to be re-interpreted, they are Scripture. “All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine” ~2 Timothy 3:16. True doctrine never lifts man up. It exalts Christ alone.

 

[Wynona]

Okay then...

Bible:

1 John 3:6-8
King James Version
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Modern Protestants: Jesus alone IS our righteousness. He did it FOR us so WE don't have to.

 

[Episkopos]

You’re mixing what God completed with what man does. Jesus didn’t give parables to take the place of doctrine, He used them to teach it. Every story revealed truth about the kingdom. The Bible never divides people by class or opportunity. God “shows no partiality” ~Romans 2:11. Both rich and poor stand before Him on the same ground, faith or unbelief.

Lazarus wasn’t saved for being poor, and the rich man wasn’t condemned for being rich. The issue was faith. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” ~Hebrews 11:6.

Grace doesn’t wait for obedience; grace produces obedience. “By grace you have been saved through faith… not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. When you turn grace into something earned, you cancel it. “If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain” ~Galatians 2:21.

There aren’t two levels of righteousness. There’s only one that counts, Christ’s. “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” ~2 Corinthians 5:21. Our own righteousness doesn’t measure up. Isaiah called it “filthy rags” ~Isaiah 64:6.

Paul’s writings don’t need to be re-interpreted, they are Scripture. “All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine” ~2 Timothy 3:16. True doctrine never lifts man up. It exalts Christ alone.

You have a dogmatic religious viewpoint that obscures the teachings of all the authors of the bible. You are the one judging here...and your judgments don't compliment Jesus...they take away from His mission.

 

[Episkopos]

men

Okay then...

Bible:

1 John 3:6-8
King James Version
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Amen. In Him is no sin. If someone claims the exclusivity of being chosen in Christ then let that one testify to the power of an eternal resurrection life that one experiences IN Him.

However, if we are humble and God-fearing God's mercy remains on us. It's all about what we claim for ourselves. We don't get to place ourselves favourably within the narrative of the bible. God judges these things.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Jesus came to fulfill ALL righteousness. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. He is BOTH righteous as God AND righteous as a man...even submitting to water baptism. We who follow Christ are also to do BOTH kinds of righteousness. What is possible AND what is impossible for the flesh. Whether present or absent from the Lord we are to do all to be accepted with Him. Let us follow divine wisdom and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Jesus came to TAKE AWAY the sins of the world...not just forgive sin. The atonement of Christ is into holiness...not a continued powerlessness over sin and a constant need for forgiveness.

Destroying the work of the devil is about the sins we adopt as our covering...adding sin to sin...adding sin in us with a sin on us. The cross of Christ abolishes dogmatic religion...even the law of Moses (but not the law of God or of Christ)...the dogmatic religious sphere is based on carnal man and his self-interest, that put Jesus on the cross!!! Better one man die than a whole religious outlook!???

Modern Protestants: Jesus alone IS our righteousness. He did it FOR us so WE don't have to.

A decoy gospel propping up a decoy church. Yes...but the truth isn't that far away...it just takes faith that doesn't short-circuit God's power over sin. Wait on the Lord...be reconciled to the living God and worship Him in Spirit and truth (not in abstractions that feed the religious flesh.)

Peace <>< :)

 

[Lizbeth]

Or as you mean...to name and claim. That is false. We are meant to be reconciled to God...not be reconciled to dogmas.

I have made my point and you have done with it what you willed.

There is potential for pride and smugness etc, no matter who believes that those verses about the imputed righteousness of God apply to them. That is why Paul exhorted as he did in Phil 3....a word to the perfect to be of the same humble mind as he and not consider that they had attained until their race was finished. It's apparent that anyone can be tempted to sit on their laurels and smugly take things for granted at any stage of the race instead of continuing to run it and keep reaching for what lies ahead.

And it's very plain and clear that the verses about imputed righteousness apply to ALL who believe, whether matured up into the full stature of Christ or still babes.

Rom 3:20-27

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Episkopos]

I have made my point and you have done with it what you willed.

There is potential for pride and smugness etc, no matter who believes that those verses about the imputed righteousness of God apply to them. That is why Paul exhorted as he did in Phil 3....a word to the perfect to be of the same humble mind as he and not consider that they had attained until their race was finished. It's apparent that anyone can be tempted to sit on their laurels and smugly take things for granted at any stage of the race instead of continuing to run it and keep reaching for what lies ahead.

And it's very plain and clear that the verses about imputed righteousness apply to ALL who believe, whether matured up into the full stature of Christ or still babes.

Rom 3:20-27

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Can you see where it says....UPON ALL... and not "imputed"?

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Justified by God. It doesn't say...I believe therefore I am just and I declare myself righteous and have the righteousness of God to myself.

And who has faith nowadays?

 

[Lizbeth]

Can you see where it says....UPON ALL... and not "imputed"?

Paul goes on to expound this righteousness that is by faith in the passages that follow, Ch. 4.....calling it imputed.

Justified by God. It doesn't say...I believe therefore I am just and I declare myself righteous and have the righteousness of God to myself.

And who has faith nowadays?

Which part of that passage are you arguing with?

 

[bdavidc]

You have a dogmatic religious viewpoint that obscures the teachings of all the authors of the bible. You are the one judging here...and your judgments don't compliment Jesus...they take away from His mission.

What you are saying is not biblical. When you frame clear Scripture as “dogmatic religion,” you are not correcting me, you are resisting what God already spoke. The Word of God is not divided against itself. Jesus never taught truth that contradicts the rest of Scripture, and He never told anyone to dismiss doctrine. He said His Word is truth ~John 17:17 and that man lives by every word that comes from God ~Matthew 4:4.

You accuse me of judging, but it is the Scripture itself that judges false ideas. “Judge with righteous judgment” ~John 7:24. Righteous judgment is not about feelings or tone. It is about whether what is being said lines up with the text. And what you’re saying does not.

You claimed my use of Scripture “obscures the teachings of the authors of the Bible.” That is backwards. The authors of Scripture spoke by the Holy Spirit ~2 Peter 1:21. Their writings are not competing viewpoints. “All Scripture is God breathed and profitable for doctrine” ~2 Timothy 3:16. When someone pits Jesus against Paul or turns parables into excuses to rewrite doctrine, that is not sound teaching. That is error.

Your claim that my words “don’t compliment Jesus” is also wrong. Jesus is honored when His Word is believed. He is dishonored when His Word is pushed aside for human ideas. Scripture does not make room for a gospel based on class, opportunity, or excuses. It says plainly that “God shows no partiality” ~Romans 2:11 and that salvation is “by grace through faith… not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. Anything that shifts the focus from Christ to human circumstance is a false message.

If you want to confront what I said, confront the verses. If what you are teaching cannot be supported by Scripture in context, then the problem is not with me. It is with what you are promoting. And Scripture commands believers to expose that. “Test all things; hold fast what is good” ~1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I’m not judging you as a person. I’m judging the claim you made. And that judgment is simple. It doesn’t match the Word of God.

 

[Episkopos]

What you are saying is not biblical. When you frame clear Scripture as “dogmatic religion,” you are not correcting me, you are resisting what God already spoke. The Word of God is not divided against itself. Jesus never taught truth that contradicts the rest of Scripture, and He never told anyone to dismiss doctrine. He said His Word is truth ~John 17:17 and that man lives by every word that comes from God ~Matthew 4:4.

You accuse me of judging, but it is the Scripture itself that judges false ideas. “Judge with righteous judgment” ~John 7:24. Righteous judgment is not about feelings or tone. It is about whether what is being said lines up with the text. And what you’re saying does not.

This is all a strawman...you are doing what you are saying I'm doing. I am speaking to you from the whole counsel of God and you are arguing from Luther's false understanding of Paul.

You claimed my use of Scripture “obscures the teachings of the authors of the Bible.” That is backwards. The authors of Scripture spoke by the Holy Spirit ~2 Peter 1:21. Their writings are not competing viewpoints. “All Scripture is God breathed and profitable for doctrine” ~2 Timothy 3:16. When someone pits Jesus against Paul or turns parables into excuses to rewrite doctrine, that is not sound teaching. That is error.

Your claim that my words “don’t compliment Jesus” is also wrong. Jesus is honored when His Word is believed. He is dishonored when His Word is pushed aside for human ideas. Scripture does not make room for a gospel based on class, opportunity, or excuses. It says plainly that “God shows no partiality” ~Romans 2:11 and that salvation is “by grace through faith… not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. Anything that shifts the focus from Christ to human circumstance is a false message.

If you want to confront what I said, confront the verses. If what you are teaching cannot be supported by Scripture in context, then the problem is not with me. It is with what you are promoting. And Scripture commands believers to expose that. “Test all things; hold fast what is good” ~1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I’m not judging you as a person. I’m judging the claim you made. And that judgment is simple. It doesn’t match the Word of God.

Exactly what you are doing...the opposite game. Either you are that blind or you are disingenuous and an obvious false teacher whose strategy is to play semantics by using my real statements about the ways of God and trying to make is seem like I'm the one who is indoctrinated into a Lutheran misreading of Paul.

Turn your comments back onto yourself where they belong.

 

[amigo de christo]

okay, so it's prideful and not humble for "lower walk" believers to believe imputed righteousness applies to themselves, but it is perfectly fine and not prideful or lacking humility when "higher walk" believers believe it applies to them.....and even solely to them to boot? Hmmm...

In no way is it prideful and lacking humility to simply believe in and trust in what JESUS accomplished on the cross for us, like a little child believes and trusts......that implies an acknowledgement that we need Him because we are not righteous in our own selves, which takes humility in itself. It is only in Him and by Him and for Him that we have His righteousness...it is not of our own.

But if some individuals in the church want to sit on their laurels and be smug and prideful about it that is on them and their heart....in such cases that is self-righteousness, not the righteousness of Christ......it is not the fault of the doctrine.

For the Spirit of prophecy IS the TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST
but according to some folks its the testimony of picking up your own cross without having to FIRST BELEIVE on HE who was
crucified on the Cross . EPI aint fooling me sister . These folks are and have no idea the danger they are in sister .
I can only pray they repent and fast .

 

[Episkopos]

Paul goes on to expound this righteousness that is by faith in the passages that follow, Ch. 4.....calling it imputed.

You are making that parallel...not having any depth of understanding... only a misunderstanding....not being able to discern the difference between an OT style righteousness and the power of God bestowed on the elect by a covering of God's righteousness. Does your error extend to the level of many here who believe that Abraham believed God and he was imputed with God's righteousness?

You need to read the bible without the eyes of Luther...read what it says. Any of the many verses about righteousness, you add in your own spin...and make it opposite. You read in...SELF-righteous because that's how you are. You are reading into the text what you are. We see things as WE are...and the bible interprets the people who name and claim things falsely from it. The truth exposes you.

Jesus said that the righteous don't need repentance (into righteousness) just like the healthy don't need a doctor. You obscure and twist this statement of Jesus to mean that self-righteous ones don't need to repent...but you fail to see the parallel in the very same sentence about the righteous being compared to the healthy who don't need a doctor. You would have to follow the same logic and make Jesus say....If you continue with your jumbled logic of putting self into everything thus negating Jesus' words and turning them inside out... A hypochondriac doesn't need a false doctor, just like I came not to call the self-righteous to repentance but false sinners. (Or something like that making everything upside down.)

But Jesus indeed calls the self-righteous to repentance. Remember the Laodiceans...the group you belong to. You are indeed being called into repentance...yes, the self-righteous. Those who are righteous are not called to repentance into righteousness. And here you will cite that ALL men (except the self-righteous?) are called into repentance ...but this is unto holiness....not just righteousness. The wicked are called into repentance into righteousness. And the righteous (like Cornelius or Zacharias and Elizabeth) are called further into holiness.

But this takes honesty and a deeper desire for truth than any pretender can conjure up.