How Important is doctrine? Part 1

[Episkopos]

People fully miss the context of Paul's letters. He was addressing problems among people he knew, using a short-hand of concepts that were never meant to be taken as a replacement of the fuller statement found in the Scriptures.

"Works of the law" is Judaism. Paul preached a hold on Christ without the works of the law....a Gentile believer did not have to become a Jew. Paul continues this theme in Galatians...spelling it out more specifically.

Examples of Pauls' shorthand...

Paul says...The just will live by faith. (actually the just will live by HIS faith)

Not having a righteousness of my own which is by the law (Judaism). Paul was not after a human righteousness but to be covered from heaven in a resurrection walk. This is NOT to be taken that there is no such thing as human righteousness

Paul said...there is none righteous no not one (he leaves out...that sinneth not) This does not mean that there are no righteous...it means that even the righteous sin. He says this to show that we should be holy and be covered in Christ's perfection...without sin.

People miss Paul's shorthand and his uncompromising commitment to ONLY walk in Christ's perfection. Those who misapply his teachings are NOT after what Paul was after. Paul sought to WIN Christ. I don't think any modern believer knows what that is.

 

[Marvelloustime]

What i say to us all is that doctrine is very very important
For many worship a god that feeds their emotions
and have no idea their god is actually deceiving them and trodding under foot the very Words of GOD
and of CHRIST , that they think they follow .
Doctrine does matter .
what we love does matter .
EITHER we love the truth and thus THE GOD who is TRUTH and INSPIRED the words of truth
OR WE decieving ourselves . This might be perhaps the most hated message
but may the peoples hear and receive it . Its time for a wake up call . get every one back into the bible .

@amigo de christo

 

[Lizbeth]

Abraham was righteous, Abel was righteous. Phinehas was righteous. In the New Testament...Cornelius was righteous Zachariah and Elizabeth were righteous etc etc etc

What you are not getting is that Paul was using shorthand for people whom he knew and you are taking his statements out of context.

You deny the righteous because Paul said he was not after a personal righteousness. You think that a personal righteousness doesn't exist because of the zeal of Paul to ONLY go after the kingdom walk in heavenly power. But you think there is an easy glory and an easy righteousness based on an easy belief system. Paul would condemn that...and he will.

You don't understand the context of Paul letters ...addressing issues you don't know about... so you fully miss the meaning and the gospel itself.

No, Jesus spoke about personal righteousness.....He said that the Jews were missing the kingdom and the gospel because they were seeking to establish their own personal righteousness through the Law instead of submitting to the righteousness of God/Christ. Personal righteousness cannot save because it falls short of the glory of God.....it may be "good" but it isn't "perfect".....it isn't sufficient for the heavenly realm because it isn't of God's Spirit. Thus in order to save He covers us with His own righteousness......."All that I have is yours"......like a Husband covering His Bride with His garment to raise her up in status and circumstance, which she can't attain to without Him. (And of course that presupposes the Bride will remain faithful to her Husband and not commit spiritual adultery, otherwise divorce could ensue....He is a jealous God.)

Is God ungodly??? Does God impute His own righteousness to the ungodly? Is the Publican in the parable as righteous as God...or is it God's mercy that because the Publican was so humble and contrite .... God accepted him as righteous. Was the Publican a saint? NO! He was merely righteous in God's eyes. The righteous are scarcely saved after all.

Looks to me as though the Publican was a sinner and not so righteous.....that is what is implied by his occupation.....as well as, what was he being humble and contrite about if not his sins? His contrition which was of FAITH is why God accepted him as righteous.....ie, imputed righteousness to him. But I certainly agree that we should be of the same heart attitude as the Publican and not try to smugly justify ourselves like the Pharisee.

The gospel is about grace power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked without sin...in His victory. To walk in resurrection life. Otherwise it is a FALSE gospel...denying the cross and the power of God.

The fact that people no longer have faith in God and His power doesn't change the gospel.

I agree. That is what we are aiming for. A walk in the Spirit. And to whatever degree according to the measure we were given, we began doing that from the time we were saved. Yet, we still need to be attaining and gaining more. Our lives here are just as much a journey and pilgrimage as a destination. I agree with Andrew Murray's take.......perfect yet being perfected. You seem to have trouble grasping that kind of "yes but not necessarily yet" spiritual concept, for whatever reason.

 

[Episkopos]

No, Jesus spoke about personal righteousness.....He said that the Jews were missing the kingdom and the gospel because they were seeking to establish their own personal righteousness through the Law instead of submitting to the righteousness of God/Christ.

Jesus came to show the way of holiness. The way of an intimate walk...a HIGHER walk in an overcoming grace according to God's power.

Modern believers don't believe such things because they have no faith in God's power. What shows that modern religionists have lost the meaning of the gospel is that they want all the benefits of a religious appreciation of God's word...but deny the power of what Jesus came to bring us.

And to see instruction in righteousness as something wrong while claiming to be walking in holiness...people are neither righteous NOR holy..meaning they have no place with God in eternity. God has a place for the personal righteous...the nations. And God has a place for the holy...the holy city.

So then to resist instruction in righteousness is to self-condemn even as these self-justify...for something they are NOT a part of.

My mission is to wake people up to the truth. But that takes honesty from those who listen to my instruction and correction. The bible is balanced and easy to understand if one leaves room for God and His ways.

Personal righteousness cannot save because it falls short of the glory of God..

You are missing the point. A real righteous man thinks he is unworthy. He NEVER thinks he is justified. Abraham NEVER claimed to be justified. The Publican NEVER saw himself as anything but unworthy. It is the hypocrite who claims to be justified. Read the parable of the Publican and the Pharisee again. The hypocrite THANKS GOD...not by his effort...but by God's grace...that he is not like the sinner that is going to hell. The righteous don't obey for the same reason as hypocrites try to do. They live in a tension of truth...a DISCOMFORT...whereas God seeks to comfort the humble and righteous. Not so the hypocrites who COMFORT THEMSELVES

But people will miss how God judges , instead reasoning from their own imagination...because they have NOT YET MET GOD.

...it may be "good" but it isn't "perfect".....it isn't sufficient for the heavenly realm because it isn't of God's Spirit.

Salvation encompasses more than entering into the heavenly realm. ONLY the rulers, the elect enter in in the land of the living. Those who are to be ruled over are meek, humble, God-fearing and consider themselves unworthy... (which they are)...and God justifies even the ungodly in this way. The righteous are scarcely saved.

Thus in order to save He covers us with His own righteousness......."All that I have is yours"......like a Husband covering His Bride with His garment to raise her up in status and circumstance, which she can't attain to without Him. (And of course that presupposes the Bride will remain faithful to her Husband and not commit spiritual adultery, otherwise divorce could ensue....He is a jealous God.)

Yes..this is what I've been trying to teach you...a COVERING is not an IMPUTATION. Imputation is about personal righteousness. And covering is about anointing and holiness.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to miss this if you take the bible as the actual inspired word of God....especially after a teacher shows you this...unless you are to be judged for hating instruction.

Looks to me as though the Publican was a sinner and not so righteous.....that is what is implied by his occupation.....as well as, what was he being humble and contrite about if not his sins? His contrition which was of FAITH is why God accepted him as righteous.....ie, imputed righteousness to him. But I certainly agree that we should be of the same heart attitude as the Publican and not try to smugly justify ourselves like the Pharisee.

But that is what you are forced to do in your denial of personal righteousness. God would rather justify a humble Hindu than a proud Christian. When you see that...you begin to understand how God sees things.....,and you"wake up" you are set free from your ego.

I agree. That is what we are aiming for. A walk in the Spirit. And to whatever degree according to the measure we were given, we began doing that from the time we were saved.

I told you that this isn't so. Read the bible. The elect are TRANSLATED into a whole other dimension...of the Spirit. Stop trying to be perfected in the flesh.

Yet, we still need to be attaining and gaining more. Our lives here are just as much a journey and pilgrimage as a destination. I agree with Andrew Murray's take.......perfect yet being perfected. You seem to have trouble grasping that kind of "yes but not necessarily yet" spiritual concept, for whatever reason.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Stop trying to be perfected in the flesh.

Reform thyself first isn't good enough?

 

[bdavidc]

Pathetic. All cloud and no rain. Do you have any points to make beside ad hominem attacks? A ploy of those who are all indoctrination but having no knowledge, wisdom or understanding.

You can talk about wisdom and understanding all day long, but the spirit you are showing is not the Spirit of God. The fruit of the Spirit never rejects Scripture or replaces truth with insults. “The spiritual man judges all things” ~1 Corinthians 2:15, but you refuse to judge anything by the Word.

This is a Christian forum. Scripture is the only standard for right and wrong here. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” ~Proverbs 9:10. If your teaching does not come from Scripture, then it is not wisdom at all.

Again, you did not answer one verse I gave you. That is a smoke screen. You ignored every passage and went straight to insults. That is exactly what Scripture says a fool does. “A fool has no delight in understanding, but only in expressing his own opinion” ~Proverbs 18:2.

So let me ask you plainly. Where exactly are you getting your knowledge and understanding? Because it is not from the Bible you keep avoiding. God says His Word gives understanding to the simple ~Psalm 119:130. You refuse to deal with the Word and attack the person instead.

That is the pattern false teachers use. They cannot defend their claims from Scripture, so they attack the one quoting Scripture. That is how deception spreads among people who do not know any better.

If you believe anything I said is wrong, then again show it from the Scriptures in context. If you cannot do that, then your accusations are empty noise. “Let God be true and every man a liar” ~Romans 3:4.

Deal with the verses or stop pretending your opinions carry the authority of truth. “To the law and to the testimony. If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” ~Isaiah 8:20.

 

[Episkopos]

 

[shepherdsword]

I watched the video (finally and part 2 as well) I know, to some degree, what it feels like to walk in the fear of the Lord and the comfort of the Holy Spirit at the same time.

 

[bdavidc]

Pathetic. All cloud and no rain. Do you have any points to make beside ad hominem attacks? A ploy of those who are all indoctrination but having no knowledge, wisdom or understanding.

You call my answers “cloud and no rain,” yet you have still not answered one Scripture. That alone exposes you. Scripture says the one who refuses to speak according to the Word “has no light in him” ~Isaiah 8:20. That describes you perfectly. You attack the person because you cannot defend your doctrine from the Bible. That is the mark of a false teacher, not a servant of Christ.

You keep throwing accusations but you will not touch the verses. Jesus said, “The Scripture cannot be broken” ~John 10:35. You reject that every time you try to pit Jesus against Paul or feelings against doctrine. God says all Scripture is His breathed-out Word ~2 Timothy 3:16. You refuse to submit to that because it destroys the foundation of everything you are pushing.

You accuse me of having no understanding, but the Bible says the fool is the one who rejects the Word and leans on his own opinions. “A fool has no delight in understanding, but only in expressing his own opinion” ~Proverbs 18:2. That is exactly what you are doing. Opinions instead of Scripture. Emotion instead of truth. Accusations instead of obedience.

God already warned the church about people like you.
“Many false prophets have gone out into the world” ~1 John 4:1.
They avoid the Word. They fight the Word. They twist the Word.
You are doing all three.

You refuse to test your claims by Scripture, but God commands it. “Test all things; hold fast what is good” ~1 Thessalonians 5:21. You reject that test because Scripture exposes your teaching as error. That is why you run to insults. That is why you refuse to answer the verses. That is why you will not submit to the authority of God’s Word.

Your teaching is not biblical. Your arguments are not biblical. Your response to correction is not biblical.
You preach your own ideas, not the Word of God.
Scripture calls that false teaching and warns you to repent.

If you want to show otherwise, then answer the Scriptures.
If you cannot, then stop pretending you speak for God.
The Word exposes what you are.

 

[bdavidc]

Abraham was righteous, Abel was righteous. Phinehas was righteous. In the New Testament...Cornelius was righteous Zachariah and Elizabeth were righteous etc etc etc

What you are not getting is that Paul was using shorthand for people whom he knew and you are taking his statements out of context.

You deny the righteous because Paul said he was not after a personal righteousness. You think that a personal righteousness doesn't exist because of the zeal of Paul to ONLY go after the kingdom walk in heavenly power. But you think there is an easy glory and an easy righteousness based on an easy belief system. Paul would condemn that...and he will.

You don't understand the context of Paul letters ...addressing issues you don't know about... so you fully miss the meaning and the gospel itself.


Is God ungodly??? Does God impute His own righteousness to the ungodly? Is the Publican in the parable as righteous as God...or is it God's mercy that because the Publican was so humble and contrite .... God accepted him as righteous. Was the Publican a saint? NO! He was merely righteous in God's eyes. The righteous are scarcely saved after all.

The gospel is about grace power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked without sin...in His victory. To walk in resurrection life. Otherwise it is a FALSE gospel...denying the cross and the power of God.

The fact that people no longer have faith in God and His power doesn't change the gospel.

You talk as if you know the truth, but what you are saying bears no resemblance to the Bible. You have no idea what you are talking about, and it is evident every time you contort a verse to try to support your foolish notions. The Word of God is making it clear to all. “If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” ~Isaiah 8:20. That is exactly what is going on with you. You are teaching things that are not in the Bible and denying things that the Bible plainly teaches.

You keep spouting off your own definitions and your own system, but it is all made up. It has no biblical support. Scripture says, “Let God be true and every man a liar” ~Romans 3:4. Right now, what you are teaching is the lie. God’s Word is the truth. And you are not standing on the Word. You are standing on your own opinions.

You accuse others of so many things, but you have not given one clear contextual verse to back up your assertions. Not one. A man who will not answer Scripture with Scripture has no right to teach. God already spelled out what you are doing. “A fool has no delight in understanding, but only in expressing his own opinion” ~Proverbs 18:2.

Here is the blunt truth: You do not know the truth of the Bible because you will not submit to the Bible. That is why you twist verses, ignore context, and run from every passage that calls into question your doctrine. Scripture calls that being a false teacher. And that is what you are right now. If you want that to change, repent and get back on the Word instead of your ideas.

 

[bdavidc]

People fully miss the context of Paul's letters. He was addressing problems among people he knew, using a short-hand of concepts that were never meant to be taken as a replacement of the fuller statement found in the Scriptures.

"Works of the law" is Judaism. Paul preached a hold on Christ without the works of the law....a Gentile believer did not have to become a Jew. Paul continues this theme in Galatians...spelling it out more specifically.

Examples of Pauls' shorthand...

Paul says...The just will live by faith. (actually the just will live by HIS faith)

Not having a righteousness of my own which is by the law (Judaism). Paul was not after a human righteousness but to be covered from heaven in a resurrection walk. This is NOT to be taken that there is no such thing as human righteousness

Paul said...there is none righteous no not one (he leaves out...that sinneth not) This does not mean that there are no righteous...it means that even the righteous sin. He says this to show that we should be holy and be covered in Christ's perfection...without sin.

People miss Paul's shorthand and his uncompromising commitment to ONLY walk in Christ's perfection. Those who misapply his teachings are NOT after what Paul was after. Paul sought to WIN Christ. I don't think any modern believer knows what that is.

You call yourself “Episkopos,” but the Scriptures make it clear that you are not qualified to be an overseer at all. An overseer must “hold fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers” ~Titus 1:9. You do not hold fast to the Word. You twist it. You add to it. You deny its plain meaning. According to Scripture, that disqualifies you. Your title does not match your doctrine.

You say Paul used “shorthand” that we are supposed to correct or reinterpret. The Scriptures never teach this. Paul said his writings were the commandments of the Lord. “If anyone thinks himself to be spiritual… let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” ~1 Corinthians 14:37. You contradict Paul when you accuse him of unclear teaching. The Scriptures say his words carry Christ’s authority. Your claim rejects that.

You say “works of the law” only refers to Judaism. The Scriptures say otherwise. Paul wrote that no flesh is justified by works of the law because the law reveals sin ~Romans 3:20. He does not limit this to Jewish custom. He applies it to all people. You are adding limits the text never gives.

You say Paul “left out” parts of verses as if he mishandled the Word. The Scriptures say the Spirit guided the apostles into all truth ~John 16:13. You are accusing the Holy Spirit of error. That alone shows you do not understand the Scriptures you pretend to teach.

You claim there is “human righteousness” apart from what God gives. The Scriptures say the opposite. “All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” ~Isaiah 64:6. You deny that and try to elevate human effort. That is not the gospel. That is pride.

You say people “miss Paul’s shorthand,” but the real issue is that you refuse to accept what Paul plainly wrote. Paul said, “Not having my own righteousness, which is of the law” ~Philippians 3:9. You twist that into something Paul never said. He was not talking about Judaism only. He rejected any righteousness that originates from himself. That is the consistent teaching of Scripture.

You accuse others of not knowing what Paul was after, yet you cannot produce one clear verse to support your interpretations. The Scriptures say a teacher who cannot handle the Word faithfully is a false teacher. “If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” ~Isaiah 8:20.

Let me be blunt:
You are not an overseer.
You are not teaching sound doctrine.
You do not understand the Word you claim to teach.

You are spreading confusion, not truth.

The Scriptures expose you for what you are. Repent. Submit to the Word of God. Stop teaching your own ideas as if they came from Him.

 

[Marilyn C]

This is the beginning of an old prophecy my grandmother had, (with many others). I thought the Lord tells us straight....


Comprehension of Love`s Purposes.

Love speaking! Do you discern the language of Love? There is a warming-up when you discern the language of Love. Love is not speechless; Love expresses itself; and I am desirous of you to be warmed-up by the expressions of My Heart. The language of Love, the doctrine of Love falls as dew upon you, My people.

Do you like doctrine? Some do not, but God is the Author of doctrine. Doctrine is found in His Essence; fundamentally He is unchangeable. And as I have spoken, I will continue, and call upon you to take heed to the expressions of Love that you may be able to comprehend with all saints....

This is only part of the longer prophecy. It was given through Pastor W. Jones Williams in 1943 at the International Apostolic Convention in Penygroes (Wales). Note it was in WW 2 times.