How in this ignorant world..

[treeoflife]

(cronnie36;49006)
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his nameEver hear of for ever and ever? Because it's eternal torment! And yes to be tossed away from God is a death, but your spirit is eternal and you may wind up with it clothed in filthy putrid rags in hell for ever if you do not give glory to God now, And God is even in hell you will wear what He puts on your spirit. That body will not die.If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. God says what He means the first time and He doesn't need any one to translate or speak for Him. That is lunacy and heresy. I hate this world.
I do agree with Cronnie on this, where hell's "longevity" is concerned. Hell is eternal, forever and ever. To render death (and hell) for the unsaved as simply ceasing to exist... is not successfully teaching the whole truth. Quite honestly, ceasing to exist is not a fearful thing for me at all. The eternal state of hell, however, is. That's not to say that we should base truth on our likes, dislikes, or fears. But I find ceasing to exist particularly *unfearful*, and I believe adamently that God's Word is quite clear that hell is eternal.

 

[Jordan]

What happens to the fire when a person uses a fire exstingensher (sp?), the fire turns to ashes, they simply cease to exist.What happened when a person dies? They are gone. They cease to exist.To say people will burn in Hell forever, is simply not dieing for the second time, which obviously ignores Revelation 20:14, and clearly makes God a liar by refusing to believe Ezekiel 18:4 and Ezekiel 18:20

 

[treeoflife]

(thesuperjag;49010)
What happens to the fire when a person uses a fire exstingensher (sp?), the fire turns to ashes, they simply cease to exist.What happened when a person dies? They are gone. They cease to exist.To say people will burn in Hell forever, is simply not dieing for the second time, which obviously ignores Revelation 20:14, and clearly makes God a liar by refusing to believe Ezekiel 18:4 and Ezekiel 18:20
It's not simply that at all, neither is it making God a liar.Revelation 20:14 says, "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."Notice that DEATH and HADES were BOTH thrown into the lake of fire. The soul that sins shall die... and we have all sinned. We all will die. Those who are raise FROM THE DEAD with Christ, go to eternal life. Those who are not raised from the dead with Christ simply remain dead. And, what happens in the reference you gave? Death is thrown into the lake of fire.The Ezekiel verses don't prove anything against hell being eternal either. Again, those who are not raised from the dead with Christ, remain dead (clearly). Death is thrown into the lake of fire. You're just quoting things and making connections that don't exist.To teach that the second death and the lake of fire are to cease from existing... is to go against God's Word, period. Since you are a reasoning thinking individual, there is no need to do that.

 

[Jordan]

(treeoflife;49011)
(thesuperjag;49010)
What happens to the fire when a person uses a fire exstingensher (sp?), the fire turns to ashes, they simply cease to exist.What happened when a person dies? They are gone. They cease to exist.To say people will burn in Hell forever, is simply not dieing for the second time, which obviously ignores Revelation 20:14, and clearly makes God a liar by refusing to believe Ezekiel 18:4 and Ezekiel 18:20
It's not simply that at all, neither is it making God a liar.Revelation 20:14 says, "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."The lake of fire the second death. If you want to get techinical about what death is... we know that when we die, that isn't where it ends. Some people would like to think that death ends at the grave, but not so.We actually go on beyond that (saints into life eternal). So, the second death is simply passing on into their eternal state... the grave for the second death is the lake of fire. There is no indication that this would not be eternal. Quite the opposite... God's Word continually states that it is an eternal state.Neither does the Ezekiel verse prove anything. You're just quoting things and making connections that don't exist. The soul that sins shall surely die. And, this proves that hell isn't eternal, contrary to God's Word, how?To teach that the second death, and the lake of fire are to cease from existing... is to go against God's Word, period. Since you are a reasoning thinking individual, there is no need to do that.You know, you misinterpret on what I'm saying, but I'll get technical again.If I were to die in about 10 minutes from this post, does it make me that I already died for the second time? No, that will be the first death. Will I still exist in life? No I will not. Do you not realize that you have two bodies? The second death is the death of the soul.

 

[treeoflife]

(thesuperjag;49014)
You know, you misinterpret on what I'm saying, but I'll get technical again.If I were to die in about 10 minutes from this post, does it make me that I already died for the second time? No, that will be the first death. Will I still exist in life? No I will not. Do you not realize that you have two bodies? The second death is the death of the soul.
Well, I edited my post since you replied, so I'm going to repost it and see if that changes your response all. Sorry for the late edit. I thought I'd get it in in time but did not. Here was my post.

It's not simply that at all, neither is it making God a liar.Revelation 20:14 says, "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."Notice that DEATH and HADES were BOTH thrown into the lake of fire. The soul that sins shall die... and we have all sinned. We all will die. Those who are raise FROM THE DEAD with Christ, go to eternal life. Those who are not raised from the dead with Christ simply remain dead. And, what happens in the reference you gave? Death is thrown into the lake of fire.The Ezekiel verses don't prove anything against hell being eternal either. Again, those who are not raised from the dead with Christ, remain dead (clearly). Death is thrown into the lake of fire. You're just quoting things and making connections that don't exist.To teach that the second death and the lake of fire are to cease from existing... is to go against God's Word, period. Since you are a reasoning thinking individual, there is no need to do that.​

 

[Christina]

(cronnie36;48823)
It's not my Word it's the Word of God and you just denied it, now you should feel threatened.But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.And all men shall fear, and shall declare the work of God; for they shall wisely consider of his doing.Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.Froward:Stubbornly contrary and disobedient; obstinate.The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
There will be no name calling I have deleted your last post just because someone disagrees with you.Now again if you look at what was written in the original language the word used for forever and ever means till the End of an age at the End of this age God will make a New heaven and New earth Hell only lasts to the end of this age that is till the end of the millieuim So What about Forever, Eternal Damnation? The word in our Bibles "Forever" or the term "Forever and ever" are mistranslations of the term "ainaos". Ainaos is the greek term from which we get our english term "age" or "eon", and the constructions used in the greek bible are "to the end of the age" or "for an age of ages". The greek bible does contain a term which could have been used had the authors wished to use a term which truly meant forever and ever. This word is used to describe the life of Melchisedek in the book of Hebrews when it speaks of an "endless life". Both the Hebrew Old Testament as well as the greek New Testament use terms which speak of a limited period of time. If none of the following applications of the terms using "forever" were really forever without end, why would we suddenly apply that meaning to the terms when applied to the fiery judgement? See if the following scenarios which the Bible says would continue forever, actually continue today... I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. (Jonah 2:6) The bars about Jonah were ended when God brought up his life from corruption! Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. (Exodus 21:6) The slave's death would END his period of servitude AS WOULD THE YEAR OF JUBILEE! I have surely built thee an house to dwell in, a settled place for thee to abide in for ever. (1 Kings 8:13) That physical temple no longer exists! And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. (1 Kings 9:3) (Solomon's temple lasted only 400 years.) Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[Christina]

AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS It is a prevalent idea that the words "Eternal, Everlasting, Forever," etc., in the English Bible, signify endless duration. This essay aims to prove the popular impression erroneous. The inquiry will be pursued in a manner that shall be satisfactory to the scholar, and also enable the ordinary reader to apprehend the facts, so that both the learned and the unlearned may be able to see the subject in a light that shall relieve the Scriptures of seeming to teach a doctrine that blackens the character of God, and plunges a deadly sting into the believing heart. The original Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek, by seventy scholars, and hence called "The Septuagint," B.C. 200-300,(1) and the Hebrew word Olam is, in almost all cases, translated AiónAiónios etc., (Aíwv, Aíwvios,) so that the two words may be regarded as synonymous with each other. In the New Testament the same wordsAión and its derivatives, are the original Greek of the English words,Eternal, Everlasting, Forever, etc.. So that when we ascertain the real meaning of Aión, we have settled the sense of those English words in which the doctrine of Endless Punishment is erroneously taught. It is not going to far to say that if the Greek Aión - Aiónios does not denote endless duration, then endless punishment is not taught in the Bible. We proceed to show that the sense of interminable duration does not reside in the word. Three avenues are open to us in which to pursue this important investigation. I. Etymology, II. Lexicography, III. Usagehttp://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html

 

[cronnie36]

Heresy is a dislocation of some complete and self-supporting system of belief, especially a religion, by the introduction of a novel denial of some essential part therein.A heretic is a person who expresses or acts on opinions considered to be heresy.A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Surely This is aright. Now we know what this means.

 

[Christina]

Well seems to me you have just described yourself but that being said keep your remarks to the postYou are the one claiming God created evil for his pleasure learn the language that was used to write the Word before you call one a heritic for not agreeing with you.

 

[cronnie36]

(kriss;49020)
Well seems to me you have just described yourself but that being said keep your remarks to the postYou are the one claiming God created evil for his pleasure
How can I be heretic when I have support for this?Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. This is not some self supporting belief. This truth and many others support my belief. Didn't you read the definition of heresy? ALL THINGS. What in the world wouldn't that include? Can you speak for God? I think this Word He sent speaks for itself. And just because people suddenly want to change God and His nature it does not nullify any scripture. God is coming soon, He has sent His Words and no amount of final finagling by anyone will change this. Those who think to change the Word of God belong to the anti-christ and are in a peck of trouble. Being led by a spirit of lies.

 

[Christina]

You are the one chaning the Word You are the one who only sees what you decide is the truth you have backed up your belief with words that were translated by men if you look at the Words God inspired the writters to use they do not say what you believe believe what you want but its not Gods Word on it.And I would say accusing God of taking pleasure in Evil borders on blaspheme

 

[cronnie36]

(kriss;49022)
You are the one chaning the Word You are the one who only sees what you decide is the truth you have backed up your belief with words that were translated by men if you look at the Words God inspired the writters to use they do not say what you believe believe what you want but its not Gods Word on it.And I would say accusing God of taking pleasure in Evil borders on blaspheme
God sent me and countless others a perfect Word. His message is unchanged all the way through till today. But isn't this what Paul said had been revealed to Him? That there would be a falling away and not only that one that had been designed by restless spirits. Are men not changing the word and denying the power? Are men not speaking heresy? And I don't know if it means anything or not but 400 years passed between the Old and New testaments without any significant event of God recorded. We are fast approaching 400 years since the King James Bible and the final word of God to mankind. Has this Bible not taught the world just fine? Without all the translating and taking away and adding to The Word it is perfection and to deny that is to deny the power of God.

 

[Jordan]

The Word of God was NOT made by an English speaker... And Hebrew (OT) existed ages ago before English has. The same goes with the Greek (NT) before English.

 

[Christina]

You are missing the point understanding the hebrew and greek as it was written puts the Word in the context God intended. It is not changing it. It is understanding it as it was written. The only changing is what you are reading today. Most of it is pretty close but when you have contradictions like you have created with this doctrine of yours you must go back to the original Words to get Gods meaning there are no contradictions in Gods Word it is perfect so when you create a contradiction by mens interptations you have to look deeper to see what God really said.

 

[cronnie36]

It's not a contradiction. God is an all consuming fire whose knowledge way surpasses ours and when He says no we should listen, and when He says to expect punishment you'd better expect it. The things that are evil the things that will send a man to hell were created by God. Satan being the father of lies was also formed by God. But even God has an evil for those ones that led us astray, and all who follow them. If you don't think God can send evil, and that He didn't create it you'd better read your scripture because believe me what He is preparing for the sinful lot who deny His holy Truth will seem very evil indeed. Repent and give glory to The Lamb for your salvation. O man humble yourself and close your mouth of all but His Word. Amen.

 

[Jordan]

I want to talk...Tell me cronnie, what happen in the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2 & Genesis 3?Consume and burn are 2 different words and difination.

 

[cronnie36]

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[Christina]

(cronnie36;49031)
It's not a contradiction. God is an all consuming fire whose knowledge way surpasses ours and when He says no we should listen, and when He says to expect punishment you'd better expect it. The things that are evil the things that will send a man to hell were created by God. Satan being the father of lies was also formed by God. But even God has an evil for those ones that led us astray, and all who follow them. If you don't think God can send evil, and that He didn't create it you'd better read your scripture because believe me what He is preparing for the sinful lot who deny His holy Truth will seem very evil indeed. Repent and give glory to The Lamb for your salvation. O man humble yourself and close your mouth of all but His Word. Amen.
I have never said most of this is not true I said God can not create evil he created Satan and the tares who became evil he also allows evil to continue. And if you think different you do not know your father nor his Word.