How many former Catholics are here?

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Brakelite

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The 1st Amendment is a protection from the state imposing a state religion. It is NOT a prohibition on religion itself.
And I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. Yet your very statement here is the epitome of what the Vatican dislikes about the American Constitution, and would repeal had she the power.
OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved”. Otherwise known as “Eternal Security.” This is a false Protestant doctrine
As I've pointed out previously, you rail against OSAS, and disagree with the principle of such a claim, yet cling to it like a leech and apply it to your church.
there is not a SINGLE tradition OR Tradition that supersedes Scripture. Not ONE.
Except Sunday sacredness, so called.
 
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Debp

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As a personal note, I am not against a Catholic (person, per se), as I love my family, and others as such in general, but I am against Catholicism (faith & practices; a theological system of doctrines, practices). So I may be friends with an "-ic", but not with the "-ism"; so loving the "-ic", but hating the "-ism".
That is how I am, too. I've had a couple of Catholic friends, even a Sister who lived in my building. She had a pro-life volunteer group.

I also love Muslims but hate their ideology which has bound them terribly. Pretty bad when a religion threatens the followers with death or disownment for leaving it.
 

ReChoired

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That is how I am, too. I've had a couple of Catholic friends, even a Sister who lived in my building. She had a pro-life volunteer group.

I also love Muslims but hate their ideology which has bound them terribly. Pretty bad when a religion threatens the followers with death or disownment for leaving it.
As for the latter portion, Islam learned such from it's origins, Roman Catholicism, whose offical doctrine of 'the two swords' (church & state), by Augustine and Aquinas and others is still present Canon law. Thus the inquisitions, persecutions, &c. going back in time.
 
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Marvelloustime

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we dont hate we love . thus we warn and correct them .
Ye shall not hate your neighbor in your heart , you SHALL correct him and NOT allow sin upon him .
And as you already know , there is no love in allowing folks to be in places that teach dangerous deadly doctrines .
Even the worship of saints and of angels .
LET No man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary and humility worshipping of angels .
That place is super dang erous , as are some other places . And though they come cloaked in wool
with the appearance of righteousness , man do they teach some dangerous things to this people .
SO , we love and we warn and do all to help them .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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The scriptures expose that which is contrary to the TRUTH .
For the scriptures ARE the INSPIRED TRUTH OF GOD .
And beleive me when i say quite a bit of the dogma of such a place
IS very contrary to the very Words of GOD , of CHRIST , of the apostels and the prophets .
As are many dogmas within the protestant realm .
OH YEAH its bible time in the building .
But many had rather sit and trust in men . Beleive me when i say THAT will be their own destruction .
The call for repentance IS NOW . and the cry COME YE OUT from amongst
has never been more dire . This people IS being deceived
and will continue to only merge together , to find common ground as one people .
And friend IT WONT BE UNDER GOD , it will have been only under he who desires to be AS GOD .
The great peaking hour is upon us all .
The time to choose ye THIS day whom ye shall serve , ITS NOT TOMORROW , ITS RIGHT NOW .
The delusion grows and is taking many captive to the LIE .
@amigo de christo
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BreadOfLife

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And I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. Yet your very statement here is the epitome of what the Vatican dislikes about the American Constitution, and would repeal had she the power.
Yes, we’re ALL aware of your hatred of the Catholic Church.
Only a person with YOUR anti-Catholic views would make such a ridiculous, paranoid claim . . .

As I've pointed out previously, you rail against OSAS, and disagree with the principle of such a claim, yet cling to it like a leech and apply it to your church.
Again, with the lies . . .

Not only do I NOT believe in OSAS for Catholics – I told you in our last exchange that I don’t.
This is a classic example of how your SDA sect teaches you to LIE about the Catholic Church . . .

Except Sunday sacredness, so called.
How does this “supersede” Scripture, when the Scriptures themselves tell us that the death and resurrection of Christ was the fulfillment of the Sabbath and all of the other shadows that point to Him (Col. 2:16-17).

And the NT informs us that the Ealy Church gathered oin Sundays (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:1-2) because it was on that day that the Lord was resurrected.

Nice try . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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@BreadOfLife And what's interesting is that Snowbound is pro-Catholic. He somehow misconstrued your post and thought you were anti-Catholic!

He sure had a mouth worse than a sailor.
There's NO room for that kind of filth.
Disagreement is ONE thing - profanity is another . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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we dont hate we love . thus we warn and correct them .
Ye shall not hate your neighbor in your heart , you SHALL correct him and NOT allow sin upon him .
And as you already know , there is no love in allowing folks to be in places that teach dangerous deadly doctrines .
Even the worship of saints and of angels .
LET No man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary and humility worshipping of angels .
That place is super dang erous , as are some other places . And though they come cloaked in wool
with the appearance of righteousness , man do they teach some dangerous things to this people .
SO , we love and we warn and do all to help them .
You don't "love" Catholics. you hate them.
Onlya perspon who is filled with hate vomits out the kinds of LIES that you do.

For example - above, you clam that we "worship" angels and saints. This is an abominable lie. If you were ignorant of Catholic teaching, I would be able to excuse it. But you KNOW this is a lie - yet you still choose to repeat it.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches expplicitly:
I. "You Shall Worship the Lord Your God and Him Only Shall You Serve"

So, don't tell me how much you "love" Cathoics until you are wlling to stop LYING about us . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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I was talking about the rituals.
You mean general Christian rituals like Communion? Baptism? Weekly Communal worship? Weddings? Funerals?

Or Protestant rituals like
Infant Dedications, Altar Calls, Worship Services, Foot Washings, etc?
 

Adventageous

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How does this [Brakelite had said, "Except Sunday sacredness, so called."] “supersede” Scripture ...
This thread is not really for such discussions, and should be taken elsewhere. The main title of the thread is clearly given, "How many former Catholics are here?" It was not meant as a place for debate, but a place for those who have chosen to leave Romanism to share their personal experience, and give their reasons. However, to respond in brief (as many more such citations below, could be provided), I will leave the following, and not be responding further on this point here in this thread, but am willing to discuss in another, when you are inclinded to:

Bible Readings for the Home, 300 Vital Scripture Topics in Question-And-Answer form; Revised; Review and Herald Published Association; Washington, DC 20039-0555; Hagerstown, MD 21740; page 425

“... [page 425] “If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are follow-ing a law of the Catholic Church.”–ALBERT SMITH, chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the cardinal in a letter of Feb. 10, 1920. ...” - Bible readings for the home : a study of 300 vital scripture topics in question-and-answer form : Review and Herald Pub. Association : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Thomas Scott Bacon and John Hughes - Both Sides of the Controversy between the Roman and Reformed Churches: being I. “A Doctrinal Catechism,” Etc., “Approved by the Most Rev. John Hughes, etc.” and II. The Other Side, by the Rev. Thomas S. Bacon. ... New York: Delisser & Procter, successors to Stanford & Swords, 508 Broadway, New York. 1859; pages 123-124

“... [page 123] Q. Have you any other proofs that they are not guided by the Scripture?​
A. Yes; so many, that we cannot admit more than a mere specimen into this small work. They reject much that is clearly contained in Scripture, and profess more that is no where discoverable in that Divine Book.​
Q. Give some examples of both?​
A. They should, if the Scripture were their only [page 123-124] rule, wash the feet of one another, according to the command of Christ, in the 13th chap. of St. John; they should keep, not the Sunday, but the Saturday, according to the commandment, “Remember thou keep holy the SABBATH-day;” for this commandment has not, in Scripture, been changed or abrogated ...” - Both Sides of the Controversy Between the Roman and Reformed Churches

Stephen Keenan - Controversial Catechism; or, Protestantism Refuted, and Catholicism Established, by an appeal to the Holy Scriptures, the Testimony of the Holy Fathers, and the Dictates of Reason; in which such portions of Scheffmacher's Catechism as suit modern controversy are embodied. by the Rev. Stephen Keenan. ... Second Edition, Revised and Enlarged; Edinburgh: John Boyle, 22 Leith Street. MDCCCXLIX. (1849); page 108

“... [page 108] Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,–she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day,–a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. ...” - Controversial Catechism

Rev. James T. Foley, D.D ; etal - The Catholic Record of London, Saturday, September 1st, 1923 edition, Ontario, Canada, Volume XLV (45), #2342, appearing on page 4, section “Sabbath Observance”, Column 2, -- Editor -- Rev. James T. Foley, D.D. ... The CATHOLIC RECORD has been approved and recommended by Archbishops Falconio and Sbaretti, late Apostolic Delegates to Canada, the Archbishops of Toronto, Kingston, Ottawa, and St. Boniface, the Bishops of London, Hamilton, Peterborough and Ogdensburg, N.Y., and the Clergy throughout the Dominion.”, Column 2

“... [Column 2] Now in the matter of Sabbath Observance the Protestant rule of Faith is utterly unable to explain the substitution of the Christian Sun-day for the Jewish Saturday. It has been changed. The Bible still teaches that the Sabbath or Satur-day should be kept holy. There is no authority in the New Testament for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday. Surely it is an impor-tant matter. It stands there in the Bible as one of the Ten Command-ments of God. There is no author-ity in the Bible for abrogating this Commandment, or for transferring its observance to another day of the week.​
For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. “All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you,” said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. “He that heareth you heareth Me.” We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable ex-planation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third–Protestant Fourth–Commandment of God. ...” - The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
 
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Adventageous

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when the Scriptures themselves tell us that the death and resurrection of Christ was the fulfillment of the Sabbath and all of the other shadows that point to Him (Col. 2:16-17).

And the NT informs us that the Ealy Church gathered oin Sundays (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:1-2) because it was on that day that the Lord was resurrected.
I see that you have interpolated the NT texts to agree with an erroneous a-prioric position of Roman Catholicism, which is circular reasoning, and is not demonstrable evidence for its pre-made conclusion, but is simply self-justification utilizing scriptures in an incorrect way to do so (as Peter would say "wrest"; 2 Pet. 3:16, drawing from Psa. 56:5 KJB).

Allow me to demonstrate this (in very brief):

There is no text in the OT, or NT for that matter, that states that the resurrection of Jesus is the fulfillment of the Sabbath, and this includes Col. 2:16-17, which is not speaking of the 7th day at all as found in Gen. 2:1-3; Exo. 20:8-11, &c., but in context, drawing from Eze. 45:17, whose context is "ordinance" (vs. 14) & "oblation" (vs 13), & "offerings" (vs. 17) of ritual carnal regulations that dealt with the worldly sanctuary (Col. 2; Eph. 2; Heb. 8-10), and not the spiritual eternal Law of JEHOVAH Elohiym (Rom. 7:7,14; Jam. 2:8-13; 1 Jhn. 3:4, &c.), and that Eze. 45:17, draws from the listing as found in Num. 28-29, lists the ritualistic / ordinances or "shadow" (Col. 2:17), skipping over the weekly reality of God's rest (Gen. 2:1-3) entirely; as citing "meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Col. 2:16). The "meat" is the meat [grain] offering, the "drink" is the "drink offering" that were offered "daily", "continually", &c. The "holyday" are the seasonal (spring and fall) festal days as provided in Lev. 23:2,4-44. The "new moon" are the monthly (every 30 days) gatherings / feast, and the "sabbath [days]" [σαββατων; lit. sabbaths] are those yearly (or of years, yearly, 7th year and 50th year) festal types as given in Lev. 23-25. Thus, as Eze. 45:17, cited in Col. 2:16, shows, [1] Daily, [2] Seasonally (Spring, Fall), [3] Monthly, [4] of Years. There is no weekly in the context. The same pattern of 'shadow' (typical) "times" is found in Isa. 1:13-14; Hos. 2:11; Gal. 4:10.

Additonally, in Col. 2, as paralleled in Eph. 2 and Heb. 8-10; drawing from Eze. 45:17, from Num. 28-29, the context reveals even more:
Col. 2:16 – Plural sabbaths, “σαββατων” (G4521), NGPN

Context: “shadow”, “ordinances”, “against”, “carnal”, “worldly sanctuary”, “things to come”

[1.] The 7th day made for man before sin of man & need of type / shadow (Mar. 2:27; Col. 1:16 KJB).​
[2.] The 7th day is an eternal memorial, pointing backwards, “Remember” (Exo. 20:8 KJB).​
[3.] The 7th day is singular and specific (“the”, “ה”, “ha”) (Exo. 20:8,10,11 KJB).​
[4.] The 7th day differs from yearly, 7th year, & 50th year festal types (Lev. 23:3,4,38, KJB, “Besides”), as the festal types are governed by “moons”, not so the 7th day, being “light” (Pro. 6:23 KJB).​
[5.] The 7th day is called, “the sabbath of the LORD” (Exo. 20:8-11 KJB), & “My [God’s, His] sabbaths” (Isa. 56:4; Eze. 20:20 KJB), as opposed to theirs, called “your sabbaths” (Lev. 26:34,35 KJB), & “her sabbaths” (Lev. 26:34,43; 2 Chr. 26:31; Lam. 1:7; Hos. 2:11 KJB).​
[6.] The 7th day is a “commandment” (Luk. 23:54,56 KJB), never of the “ordinances” (Col. 2:14,20 KJB).​
[7.] Col. 2 KJB, speaks of “sins” (Col. 2:13 KJB), being “transgression of the law” (1 Jhn. 3:4 KJB), of which the 4th Commandment (Exo. 20:8-11 KJB) is central, whereas the yearly [of years] festal sabbaths are not in the Ten Commandments, but given later under Levitical priesthood (Heb. 7:11 KJB) because of sin.​

I also have access to several commentaries / studies which agree with the above, including Roman Catholic sanctioned ones.

Simply compare:

Temporary festal shadowy sabbaths, given after sin of mankind
- “ordinances” - [ie. Passover, &c.] – Col. 2:14
- “carnal” - [sacrifices, flesh is nailed to cross] – Heb. 9:10
- “worldly” – Heb. 9:1
- “shadow” – Col. 2:17
- “against us”, “contrary to us” – Col. 2:14
- “to come” [future] – Col. 2:16; Eph. 2:17; Heb. 9:11, 10:1

Eternal & Everlasting Sabbath rest of the LORD God, instituted before sin of mankind
- “Ten Commandments” – Exo. 34:28; Deu. 4:13, 10:4
- “spiritual” [obedience; cannot be nailed to a cross] – Rom. 7:14
- “the words ... are spirit ... life” – Jhn. 6:63
- “heaven” – Exo. 20:22
- “light” – Pro. 6:23; Isa. 8:20, 51:4; Psa. 119:105
- “the sabbath was made for [the] man” – Mar. 2:27;
- “the first man Adam ... [&] the last Adam [Jesus]” – 1 Cor. 15:45;
- “the second man is the Lord from Heaven” – 1 Cor. 15:47;
- “all things were made ... for him [Jesus]” – Col. 1:16
- “Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid” – Gal. 3:21
- “Remember” [memorial, past] – Exo. 20:8

The church (es) in the NT met on many days of the week (as the Hebrews / Israelites / Jews) before them, but such extra(beyond)-7th day gatherings, in no way replaced, superceded, abrogated, &c., the commandment and 7th day sabbath, or Lord's day (Isa. 58:13; Rev. 1:10; Gen. 2:1-3; Exo. 20:8-11; Mar. 2:27; Heb. 4:9; &c.). As for instance:

Luke records that the disciples met “daily” (Act. 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 20:31, 17:11,17 KJB) and with Jesus for “forty days” (Act. 1:3,9 KJB) just before He ascended to the 3rd heaven (2 Cor. 12:2,4 KJB) from the Mount of Olives (Luk. 24:51,53 KJB, “continually”), which 40th day from first fruits, was also not a “first [day]” gathering, but rather a middle of the week event (5th day, aka ‘Thursday’ commonly, not technically).

There were also other times (differing days of the week) when both Jews and / or Christians (Jews / Gentiles) met together (Mat. 26:55; Mar. 14:49; Luk. 22:53, 24:33,36; Act. 19:9; Heb. 3:13 KJB) for varying purposes. Both Jhn. 20:19,26 KJB along with Luk. 24:1-49 KJB reveal that the disciples met on the 2nd day of the week (first evening at sunset), and on the third and later days in that upper room (“And after eight days again” (Jhn. 20:26 KJB), and no matter how that is calculated, inclusive or exclusively, it cannot ever land upon “the first [day] of the week”).

In 1 Cor. 16:1-2, & following context, no one is gathering together upon any day there. Read it carefully. Paul instructed those at Corinth to collect offerings at home in private, and to save those things, for when Paul would send messengers to collect those things, for the poor in Jerusalem later.

Acts 20:7 is a one-time (never-repeated) night meeting, after the sabbath had concluded (see koine Greek; εν δε τη μια των σαββατων) and had already begun the seasonal 7 weekly sabbaths (hence, "των σαββατων" (the sabbaths, plural), to be counted unto 'Pentecost' (Act. 20:16; feast of weeks; Shavuot), for a special farewell to Paul, who would leave them permanently, and go to Jerusalem, so that he could preach to a gathering of Jews for another 'Pentecost' (feast of weeks, in Lev. 23), when millions of Jews would travel to Jerusalem from their personal residences throughout Judaea. There is no command here from the LORD Jesus, the Apostles, the disciples to keep the first day of the week as a weekly occurance. The breaking of bread, was a common fellowship meal, in farewell to the beloved Paul. Even in the pattern there given, it is at night (aka saturday night), not sunday morning. More details may be provided as needful. Paul's pattern (Act. 17:2, as Jesus'; Luk. 4:16) would always to meet with believers upon the 7th day (Act. 13:14,27,42,44, (14:15), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4), and then afterwards (after the sabbath had closed out at evening, nighttime) have a farewell at night, and move onto the next town the next morning light (confirming the churches that he visitied in his missionary journeyings).

As stated before, this thread is not really for these discussions, and should be taken elsewhere. This is my only response to these points, and I shall not make another on them here.
 
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Debp

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You mean general Christian rituals like Communion? Baptism? Weekly Communal worship? Weddings? Funerals?

Or Protestant rituals like
Infant Dedications, Altar Calls, Worship Services, Foot Washings, etc?
No, I was thinking of how Catholics pray the rosary and do penance after a priest tells them to do that. Also prayers to saints. Things like that.

As a born again Christian, if I would do something wrong, the Holy Spirit in my heart convicts me of that. Since I love being in fellowship with the Lord, I would confess in my heart to the Lord.
 
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Debp

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@BreadOfLife Do you have any non-Catholic friends? If not, may I ask what part of the country you live in?

I was raised on the East Coast but reside in California. I do notice differences between Catholics on each coast.