How Say You Jesus Is A Jew?

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Ekul7291

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The Book of Matthew

Chapter 22

42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

The mother of Jesus was a Jew. The Father of Jesus was not a Jew.

In the law of Moses it is forbidden for a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile.

In the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew.

How say you then Jesus is a Jew?
 

Angelina

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The mother of Jesus was a Jew. The Father of Jesus was not a Jew.

If you are meaning that Joseph [his adoptive Parent] was not a Jew you are incorrect...

Please note Matthew 1, The Genealogy of Jesus Christ from Abraham to Joseph

[sup]16 [/sup]And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

In the law of Moses it is forbidden for a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile.

Joseph was not a Gentile and he was also not the Father of Jesus...Matthew 1:18, Luke 1:35

Blessings!!! :)
 

lforrest

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The Book of Matthew

Chapter 22

42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

The mother of Jesus was a Jew. The Father of Jesus was not a Jew.

In the law of Moses it is forbidden for a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile.

In the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew.

How say you then Jesus is a Jew?

Where is it written in the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew?

By tradition Judaism uses maternal descent to determine Jewish status.
 

Ekul7291

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[quote name=%2526amp%253B%252339%253BAngelina%2526amp%253B%252339%253B timestamp='1347852588' post='166426']
If you are meaning that Joseph [his adoptive Parent] was not a Jew you are incorrect...

Please note Matthew 1, The Genealogy of Jesus Christ from Abraham to Joseph

[sup]16 [/sup]And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.



Joseph was not a Gentile and he was also not the Father of Jesus...Matthew 1:18, Luke 1:35

Blessings!!! />
[/quote]What does Joseph being a Jew have to do with Jesus being a Jew? NOTHING.Jesus himself pointed out he was not David's son. To which leaves both your points mute.

Where is it written in the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew?

By tradition Judaism uses maternal descent to determine Jewish status.

Here I will let you answer your own question. According to the law of Moses were Jewish women allowed to marry Gentiles?

Now show me in the law of Moses were in the days of the birth of Jesus that it
was lawful for a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile.

The fact is Jesus, according to the Jewish tradition and protocol in the days of his birth would not be a Jew in the eyes of the Jews. Being that his Father was not a Jew. And he certainly was not according to Jewish tradition and protocol in the days of his birth a or the Son of God. And Jesus himself pointed out he was not David's son. Therefore how say you that Jesus was a Jew?

At the most one could argue that Joseph adopted him. That would make him grafted in. I don't know if that is plausible? Was Jesus grafted into Israel?
 

Angelina

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What does Joseph being a Jew have to do with Jesus being a Jew? NOTHING.Jesus himself pointed out he was not David's son. To which leaves both your points mute.

...and yours also :huh:

The mother of Jesus was a Jew. The Father of Jesus was not a Jew.

In the law of Moses it is forbidden for a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile.

In the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew.


How say you then Jesus is a Jew?

Shalom!!!
 

Ekul7291

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[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3BAngelina%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1347873021' post='166430']
...and yours also
Shalom!!!
[/quote]

Please point out which points of mine that you can prove that are mute. Cut and paste each one for me. Then prove it. IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT THEN Please point out which points of mine that you say I have not proved. Cut and paste each one and for me. Then I will prove it.
 

biggandyy

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Actually, it's spelled MOOT, not mute ;) And Ekul7291, chill out dude. Not everyone is into cutting and pasting as much as you are.
 

Ekul7291

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Actually, it's spelled MOOT, not mute /burn.php/BnL1Hww3/d2KrtREa/jp7w95Wf/ReU3yQXZ/QHOT8TfH/gDgZFtk1/3cBwtUQS/24Xa04tC/SZtoTg9a/mlEGzBj7/tqzx6iif/Hi8_3D/b21/ And Ekul7291, chill out dude. Not everyone is into cutting and pasting as much as you are.

Are you trying to annoy me with your mute point of view?

If so please keep the clutter down to a bare minimum. Thank you.

The only point of view I have any regard for, is the one that is of the truth.
 

dragonfly

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Where is it written in the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew?

By tradition Judaism uses maternal descent to determine Jewish status.

Hi lforrest,

This tradition has arisen since the law of Moses was in force.

The Book of Matthew

Chapter 22

42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

The mother of Jesus was a Jew. The Father of Jesus was not a Jew.

In the law of Moses it is forbidden for a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile.

In the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew.

How say you then Jesus is a Jew?

It is simple. Joseph only needed to state that Jesus was his son, and He was accepted a Joseph's.

Your point about Joseph's descent from David is vital for the Messiah to have been recognised as the heir to the throne of David. Jesus needed an earthly father to create the link necessary for Him to fulfil all prophecy.

It's difficult for us to get our heads round the way God worked with the Jews, because He gave so much power to His chosen men and women in every generation - whether prophet, priest or king - but they understood.

Note how Paul words this: Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; 5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Can you see the crossover? First of all Paul links himself to his brethren the Israelites, and then to the covenants (given to the fathers) and then points out that Christ was descended from them 'concerning the flesh'.

The fact is... Jesus Christ - Messiah - was adopted into an earthly family to establish His human descent, and we are to be adopted into God's family, to establish our descent as sons of God. The very first thing Paul is longing for his brethern, is not that they should realise they are physically related to their Messiah (although that is an intrinsic factor in determining that He was indeed their Messiah), but that they should desire the adoption into sonship of God.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
 
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Ekul7291

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So How Say You Jesus Is A Jew?

Please condense what you said, down to only the statements that you can prove to me that they are the truth and not just your opinion. Thank you

And before you post it, tell me first what it is, exactly are you trying to prove to me.

Thank you
 

dragonfly

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Hi Ekul,

And before you post it, tell me first what it is, exactly are you trying to prove to me.

I was showing you how Jesus is a Jew. That was the title of your thread, remember?

I think it best to leave you to research Jewish adoption practices.

I have not given you my 'opinion', and, I don't have to prove to you that I've told you 'the truth'. God does that for me. :)

One last scripture quotation:

John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [he].



Blessings.
 

biggandyy

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Are you trying to annoy me with your mute point of view?

No, but...

disturbing.jpg
 

Axehead

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Hi lforrest,

This tradition has arisen since the law of Moses was in force.



It is simple. Joseph only needed to state that Jesus was his son, and He was accepted a Joseph's.

Your point about Joseph's descent from David is vital for the Messiah to have been recognised as the heir to the throne of David. Jesus needed an earthly father to create the link necessary for Him to fulfil all prophecy.

It's difficult for us to get our heads round the way God worked with the Jews, because He gave so much power to His chosen men and women in every generation - whether prophet, priest or king - but they understood.

Note how Paul words this: Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; 5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Can you see the crossover? First of all Paul links himself to his brethren the Israelites, and then to the covenants (given to the fathers) and then points out that Christ was descended from them 'concerning the flesh'.

The fact is... Jesus Christ - Messiah - was adopted into an earthly family to establish His human descent, and we are to be adopted into God's family, to establish our descent as sons of God. The very first thing Paul is longing for his brethern, is not that they should realise they are physically related to their Messiah (although that is an intrinsic factor in determining that He was indeed their Messiah), but that they should desire the adoption into sonship of God.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Excellent post, dragonfly.
 

Ekul7291

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May 16, 2012
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Hi Ekul,



I was showing you how Jesus is a Jew. That was the title of your thread, remember?

I think it best to leave you to research Jewish adoption practices.

I have not given you my 'opinion', and, I don't have to prove to you that I've told you 'the truth'. God does that for me. /burn.php/L2tbHd6T/8A_2Bd0W/0PY6dTB6/EC4aX5tO/yYZ6_2Ba/m7KupHR4/QcGUJZxg/Fv5wiPOx/xnECzbx0/CC4f3oK_/2FmFbnW8/IxsmktVn/BN/b21/

One last scripture quotation:

John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [he].



Blessings.

Since you have posted on my thread on a debate forum...yes, you do have to prove what you say or debate it. So you admit that Jesus was not a Jew before you say he was adopted by a Jew?
 

dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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So you admit that Jesus was not a Jew before you say he was adopted by a Jew?

No I don't. You asked in your thread title: 'How say you Jesus is a Jew?' I have replied to your question adequately.

It's entirely up to you whether you accept my reply or not. I am not debating it, even though the thread is in the Debate forum.


A little reflection on the fact that God's Son came through Judah, which means 'praise', might cast light on His natural Father, also.


By the way, thanks Axehead. :)
 

Ekul7291

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May 16, 2012
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No I don't. You asked in your thread title: 'How say you Jesus is a Jew?' I have replied to your question adequately.

It's entirely up to you whether you accept my reply or not. I am not debating it, even though the thread is in the Debate forum.


A little reflection on the fact that God's Son came through Judah, which means 'praise', might cast light on His natural Father, also.


By the way, thanks Axehead. /burn.php/Cw1xOfAM/s5LXJYC8/oUeNGNQr/F1IPMbUJ/6z5n4QSL/niaNYRnJ/v39gb76d/AVjerf51/vtW58Q5D/HLfedySY/dVkOOEa3/2EfW/b21/

No problem...Let me restate that for your sake. How Say You Jesus Is A Jew? That you can prove it.

The Book of Matthew

Chapter 22

42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

The mother of Jesus was a Jew. The Father of Jesus was not a Jew.

In the law of Moses it is forbidden for a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile.

In the law of Moses if your father is not a Jew then you a not a Jew.

How say you then Jesus is a Jew?

Due to the the person with the screen name...dragonfly...I will rephrase this...How say you then Jesus is a Jew, and prove it?

Thank you for bring that loop hole to attention Mr. Fly

It has now been closed.

For the sake of argument let's say you are correct with your theory that Jesus was adopted by Joseph and that made him a Jew. I will then point out then he was still not born a Jew. Then I will point out that Jesus some years later in his adulthood, made it a point that they knew he was not a son of David. So my question to you is how could he be adopted by Joseph and not be a son of David?

I have proved that your theory is flawed.
 

michaelvpardo

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No problem...Let me restate that for your sake. How Say You Jesus Is A Jew? That you can prove it.



Due to the the person with the screen name...dragonfly...I will rephrase this...How say you then Jesus is a Jew, and prove it?

Thank you for bring that loop hole to attention Mr. Fly

It has now been closed.

For the sake of argument let's say you are correct with your theory that Jesus was adopted by Joseph and that made him a Jew. I will then point out then he was still not born a Jew. Then I will point out that Jesus some years later in his adulthood, made it a point that they knew he was not a son of David. So my question to you is how could he be adopted by Joseph and not be a son of David?

I have proved that your theory is flawed.
The council of Jerusalem called Jesus "Rabbi," would they have done that if they didn't receive Jesus as Jewish?
Jesus entered the temple inner court and could have been executed for just being there if He weren't a Jew, yet the priests and members of the council didn't challenge His presence, only His authority. It would seem that they accepted Him as a Jew, though they questioned His legitmacy.
Jesus was "buried" in the unused tomb of a wealthy member of the council. If He weren't accepted as a Jew it's unlikely that He would have been "buried" in a Jewish tomb.
Jesus taught in synagogue. I don't believe that He would've been allowed to do so if He were not a Jew.
Jesus was circumsiced in the temple on the 8th day after His birth in accordance with the law of Moses for the tribe of Israel. I don't think that would' ve happened if He hadn't been a Jew.
The great grandfather of David, the 2nd king of Israel was Boaz. The wife of Boaz was Ruth, a woman of Moab, yet Ruth gave birth to a legitimate heir named Obed, not only because His father Boaz was a Jew, but because Boaz took the place of the "kinsman redeemer" to provide an heir to the heirless 1st Husband of Ruth, who was also a Jew. The Lord God provided a kinsman redeemer for all of Israel in the person of Jesus Christ, who did not have a biological father. You can argue that God is not a Jew, but Israel was chosen to be the carrier of the Holy seed, the spritual descendent not just of Abraham, but of Adam, called the son of God: [sup]22 [/sup]Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. Exodus 4:22


In Jesus Christ, God gave us what Israel could not; a man without sin. I'm not picking on Israel here. There has only been one man created without sin named Adam, and one man born without sin, Jesus (or Joshua if you prefer His Hebrew name.) Only a man without sin could pay the price of blood for the sin of another and according to Ezekiel, He couldn't have done this either if He were only a man, as each man bears the guilt of His own sin. Only God could keep His own covenant and since He chose to fulfill His covenant of Mt. Sinai and to replace it with His covenant of peace, only His own blood could satisfy the first and initiate the 2nd. That's the nature of covenants. God is not a man that He could forfeit His life or spill His own blood, so He became One in the person of His Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, our Immanuel, blessed forever. Amen
 
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Ekul7291

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Please condense what you said, down to only the statements that you can prove to me that they are the truth and not just your opinion. Thank you

And before you post it, tell me first what it is, exactly are you trying to prove to me.

Thank you