How the idea of Immortal Soul got into the Church

[Taken]

The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls but many believe it.

A created human body is not “Given” an immortal soul.

However, a human man, “Given” Gods Gift of Salvation WILL Keep the mans Soul Alive Forever.

So how did this teaching enter Christian thinking, where did this corruption originate and how did it spread into the churh. As God made man in his own image, but did not make him immortal …

You started with a mans “natural” mortal Body…moved to speaking of the Soul, then back to the Body, as if The Body and Soul ARE the same thing…
They are two distinct things, with one Identifying Name.

Man is the Body, it’s Life is BLOOD.
All SOULS belong to God.
The Life of the Soul, is Gods BREATH.
A saved Soul “continues” “keeping” Gods BREATH and the Soul.
An UN-saved soul Life, will return to God, and the “lifeless” soul Destroyed and Forgotten.

Mortal “means” subject to Death, must Die.
That does apply to mans Form (body).
Immortal means”not subject to Death, (can not Die).
Souls, begin “Spiritual dead.”
A saved “soul” can not Die.
A mans “natural spirit” Shall die.
A mans “born again spirit” can not die.

That does not apply to ALL souls.
Some souls shall never Die….Because it received Gods Gift of Salvation.

(Body’s experience physical Death.)
Any Separation From God, whether the body, soul, spirit of a man is (alive or bodily dead)…
Is a “Spiritual Death”.

Point…
Yes, some souls Shall remain Alive Forever, others Shall not.

UN-saved souls, Shall have “their” Lifeless UN saved soul and Dead Body's Destroyed (after Judgement).

They, whose Body’s Are Raised “in glory”. (Without Sin)…will Require their Living Soul “IN” their (glorified) body, to maintain their Ability…to Hear, See, Taste, Speak, Smell, Feel Touch…same as Now of a soul IN a natural mortal Body.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls

Hilarious and not in a good way... if man does NOT have an immortal soul then man was not created in God's image meaning... God lied. Sadly the SDA teaches numerous false doctrines being a cult and all.

ALL people.... will in fact be awake and conscience for all eternity, it's just a matter of where they will be spending eternity

 

[Dan Clarkston]

And that is true, as the sin of Adam and Eve has been assigned to all men.

No, God's Word does not teach that I'm being held accountable for the sin Adam committed or the sins committed by any others.

God's Word specifically teaches that we all have sinned ourselves.... and that is what we are accountable for, the sins WE have committed.

Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin

Deuteronomy 1:39
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

2 Kings 14:6
But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as the Lord commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin

Ezekiel 18:19
Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live

Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself

We were NOT born with a sin nature!

When God placed a person in the mother's womb... the Lord did not put sin in to them making them to be born as sinners.

What some are referring to as "sin nature" are the habits we all take on as a result of living in a world full of sin and darkness and habitually they become full of "sin nature" because they live in sin continually walking after the flesh and not after the Spirit.

God did not make anyone to be a sinner when He created them... but satan claims He did

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We all became sinners AFTER we arrived on Club Earth so God is holding each person accountable for their own sin, not for Adam's sin

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Here again.... death (separation from God) passed upon all men because all have sinned

 

[Davy]

No, God's Word does not teach that I'm being held accountable for the sin Adam committed or the sins committed by any others.

Then you haven't read Apostle Paul's Epistles in The New Testament...

Rom 5:12-19
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
KJV

 

[Rightglory]

So sinners get eternal life, no my brother, Gods Word does not teach that...

Depends on context. In the context of Christ's ressurrection He gave life to all men, I Cor 15:21-22. At the resurrection all men will receive immortality and incorruptibility I Cor 15: 52-53. As far as definitions go, immortal is also eternal.
The other context where it is used is when the life with Christ is mentioned it means eternal death. The opposite is eternal death. Both are relative to one's relationship with Christ or a lack thereof.

 

[Rightglory]

Then you haven't read Apostle Paul's Epistles in The New Testament...

Rom 5:12-19
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
KJV

Sin is not commutable, Rom 5:12 clearly states that death is what is passed to all men. I Cor 15:20-22. Rom 5:18 reinforces this concept.
Your misinterpretation makes Christ a sinner if sin is passed through our human nature.
Christ took on our human nature in every respect. Christ came to defeat death.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Then you haven't read Apostle Paul's Epistles in The New Testament...

You missed the part that said we have all sinned our own sins... and that what Adam did resulted in sin being in the world and the opportunity to sin came upon all people... and they all sinned so we are all being held accountable for our own sin, not Adam's sin

And you missed in God's Word where God said the children are not responsible for the sins of the fathers
Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin

Deuteronomy 1:39
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

2 Kings 14:6
But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as the Lord commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin

Ezekiel 18:19
Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live

Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself

Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If what you are saying is true... then according to Rom 5:19 ALL have been made righteous by what Jesus has done

So you really believe verse 19 and there are no more sinners now???

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hobie said:
The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls but many believe it.

But it does! Paul in Corinthians says when a believer is absent from the body , they are present with the Lord. So part of a person leaves the body at death.

Paul also prays a blessing on a persons body (soma), soul(psuche) and spirit(pneuma). The showing man is a triune body which is the image of the triune god.

 

[Rightglory]

If what you are saying is true... then according to Rom 5:19 ALL have been made righteous by what Jesus has done

ALL men are made righteous.

So you really believe verse 19 and there are no more sinners now??? View attachment 59264

Righteous does not mean no sinners. It means to be made correct, right. Christ reversed the curse of the fall and made all things right. Defeated death. I Cor 15:21-22 says the same thing.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

ALL men are made righteous.

NOT true according to Jesus

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Righteous does not mean no sinners. It means to be made correct, right. Christ reversed the curse of the fall and made all things right. Defeated death. I Cor 15:21-22 says the same thing.

I hope you get delivered from the false doctrines of universalism.... and soon because time is running out!

 

[Rightglory]

NOT true according to Jesus

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.





I hope you get delivered from the false doctrines of universalism.... and soon because time is running out! View attachment 59268

You show a total misunderstanding of Gospel respective of the creation of man and this world, the fall of man and the redemption of the world from the fall, which put the universe right with God, so that His prime creature, man, could again be in communion with Him in this world.

I explained the two contexts in which righteous is used in scripture. This could be your lack of understanding Greek.
We are entering the Lenten season which is all about Christs death and resurrection delivering mankind from the curse of death.
Read Rom 5, especially Rom 5:12, then vs 18-19. It is referencing physical death, the curse of Adam's sin, and Christ becoming man, generic man, not men who have a spiritual relationship with Him, so that He can overcome death. Physical death. This is also clearly illustrated in I Cor 15: 21 -22. It is also stated clearly in I Cor 15, 51-53. Referencing physical death, being mortal and becoming immortal. Other texts are II Cor 5:18-19 II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:14, Heb 2:9.
Everyone of these texts is showing how Christ made mankind righteous. Meaning, the Greek meaning, to be made right or put into a correct relationship. This is theology `101.
Without over coming death there can be no spiritual relationship with Christ. Man would still be condemned to death through Adam.

Do you even understand the doctrine of Universalism? It has actually been condemned by the Church in the Second Council of Constantinople in 553

 

[quietthinker]

How the idea of Immortal Soul got into the Church​

The denial of death....even while staring it in the face, makes it easy to fall in line with all and any pagan views......which might I add, fall from the tree like a ripe apple in unrenewed minds.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I explained the two contexts

Yes you did.... with the false doctrine of universalism which is a doctrine of demons

You are a very confused individual

 

[Rightglory]

Yes you did.... with the false doctrine of universalism which is a doctrine of demons

You are a very confused individual

Quite contrary. My whole post originally was ONLY about mankind. It never even referenced man's spiritual existence with God.
In my second post I also only referenced the relationship God had with His creation from the cause of separation, namely death, the curse given to Adam. That effected all mankind, not just believers which you seem to think it refers. Christ's resurrection reversed the curse of death, physical death of mankind.
How can you even arrive at a view that these texts even reference universalism, which is why I asked if you even understood Universalism.
What do you think Easter is about?

 

[Runningman]

Some say what about the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, well lets look.
Luke 16:19-31
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

First off, we have to determine IF this is a parable; lets examine it:

When Jesus told the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man were there many people gathered?
Luke 15:1
Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

So yes, there was a group/multitude present and we see..
Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Jesus spoke only in parables to the multitudes, only when with His disciples did He unveil the meaning..
Mark 4:34
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

It was hard enough for them to understand what He was saying but if you look the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man was the last parable out of 5 he told that day. Starting in Luke 16:1 Jesus tells the following parables..
The parable of the Lost Sheep
The parable of the Lost Coin
The parable of the Lost Son
The parable of the Shrewd Manager
and the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man.

If you look, the parable of the Shrewd Manager begins exactly like the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man...
Luke 16:1
And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

Luke 16:19
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

Many people read their Bible and its clear that when we die our physical body returns to dust, but then bring in the false idea that has spread and they also say that our 'soul' goes to heaven without our body. They go on to say that at the resurrection, our souls are 'reunited' with our physical bodies and they become glorified.

Well let's look at the facts given. The 'rich man' in the parable was buried as we see in verse 22, yet the very next verse says he had EYES to look up with. In verse 24 its says the buried 'rich man' had a TONGUE. The parable also says Lazarus has a FINGER and Abraham has a BOSOM. Do these physical attributes apply to a soul? Not according to Jesus. Jesus said, if one looks, that a spirit does not have flesh and bones..
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; FOR A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES, as ye see me have.
I think we should believe what Christ declares rather than false ideas spread from pagan origin.

Christ says the eternal home of the saved is in heaven, not Abrahams bosom:
John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that WHERE I AM, there ye may be also.

Is Jesus in 'Abrahams bosom', of course not. Now in the parable it says a great gulf exists between Lazarus and the Rich Man. This gulf is so vast in expanse that it is impossible for those on one side to pass through to the other side. In spite of this, the Rich Man is able to recognize both Abraham and Lazarus as well as hold an intelligent conversation. Does that make sense, of course not. This story is a parable and thus not to be taken literally. This parable actually illustrates how one should live, not how we die.

Another argument some try to give is that the 'glorified body' that we receive is a spiritual body and not one of flesh and bone. Look at what Christ declares..
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

This is Christ talking to the apostles when they first see Him after He rose from the grave. Does Christ say here that He is in a spiritual body or a flesh one, and look at the example of Jesus and see how He ascended..

And then we have this..
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This verifies that Jesus had not yet ascended to heaven, and then you have this..
Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 1:22
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Here it is told of Jesus ascending to heaven. No where does it indicate that only Jesus spirit went to heaven and His body stayed behind on the contrary, the disciples watched Him ascend with their own eyes. Christ went up in bodily form, so shall we in our completeness at the resurrection.

It was possibly created to help support the other false doctrine of eternal conscious torment. There are several false doctrines prominent in Catholicism and Protestantism that are not present in Judeo-Christian theology. Why they did it is speculative at best. Could have been a tool to help control people and encourage them to go to church. Could have been an honest misunderstanding that no one dared to question that ultimately became mainstream. Keep following the trail and you'll find something interesting if you haven't already.

 

[soberxp]

God made man in his own image.
God is spirit and is eternal, so we will be.
God is omniscient and omnipotent, so we will be.
God is good, so we will be.
God is kind,so we will be.
God is life,so we will be.
so we will be as his only begotten Son,(son of God)
cuz God "made" Jesus (son of man) in his own image,
If we see Jesus then we see the father.
We will be made in New.

Psalm 8:4 (ESV):
"What is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?"

 

[Davy]

Sin is not commutable, ....

Then you ALSO... show you have NOT read The New Testament Scriptures, particularly by Apostle Paul where he declared that WE ALL HAVE INHERITED THE SIN OF ADAM AND EVE.

Are you JEWISH, and follow the JEW'S RELIGION instead of believing on Jesus Christ as your Savior? I want to know.

 

[Davy]

Sin is not commutable, Rom 5:12 clearly states that death is what is passed to all men. I Cor 15:20-22. Rom 5:18 reinforces this concept.
Your misinterpretation makes Christ a sinner if sin is passed through our human nature.
Christ took on our human nature in every respect. Christ came to defeat death.

You obviously SKIPPED the following by Apostle Paul, just so you can TRY and keep your false tradition of men...

Rom 5:18-19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
KJV

It was the sin of Adam and Eve which caused God's judgment to come upon ALL MEN TO CONDEMNATION!

Don't you realize WHAT YOU ARE PREACHING by DENIAL of the above Romans Scripture that we all have been concluded under the sin of Adam and Eve, that you are CLAIMING THAT YOU DO NOT NEED SAVING BY JESUS CHRIST?

Lord Jesus Christ, Immanuel 'God with us', came in the flesh to die on the cross for the remission of sins for those who BELIEVE. And that INCLUDES the first sin in the flesh by Adam and Eve which condemned us ALL, to show that we NEED The Savior Jesus Christ!

This is why... Apostle Paul said that "by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life"!

 

[lforrest]

God made man in his own image.
God is spirit and is eternal, so we will be.
God is omniscient and omnipotent, so we will be.
God is good, so we will be.
God is kind,so we will be.
God is life,so we will be.
so we will be as his only begotten Son,(son of God)
cuz God "made" Jesus (son of man) in his own image,
If we see Jesus then we see the father.
We will be made in New.

Psalm 8:4 (ESV):
"What is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?"

"God is spirit," may not mean what we think it means. Look at what the perfected man is compared with, angels of heaven. Can we say that angels are spirit? Or is there significance in the missing 'a'. It may be that it is only correct to refer to the father of spirits as spirit. The angels also have a spiritual body at the vary least. Does the Father have a spiritual body? Or does Jesus fulfill all roles that require the use of a body?

Why does man need to be omniscient and omnipotent? I wouldn't think that necessary for his plans.

Why also would it be necessary for there to be more than one life giving Spirit? Is God insufficient?

 

[soberxp]

"God is spirit," may not mean what we think it means. Look at what the perfected man is compared with, angels of heaven. Can we say that angels are spirit? Or is there significance in the missing 'a'. It may be that it is only correct to refer to the father of spirits as spirit. The angels also have a spiritual body at the vary least. Does the Father have a spiritual body? Or does Jesus fulfill all roles that require the use of a body?

Why does man need to be omniscient and omnipotent? I wouldn't think that necessary for his plans.

Why also would it be necessary for there to be more than one life giving Spirit? Is God insufficient?

"The first Adam was earthly; then came the spiritual Adam. I believe this distinction clarifies the matter profoundly."

---

Expanded Explanation (1 Corinthians 15:45–47):​

1. "The first man Adam became a living being" (Genesis 2:7):
   • Represents humanity’s origin in natural, fallen flesh (Romans 5:12).
2. "The last Adam [Christ] became a life-giving spirit":
   • Jesus, as the "second Adam," restores spiritual life through resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:22)