Those who are so stuck on salvation and devising a plan to declare themselves saved are seeking to save their life... And will in turn lose it.
Hi Prentis,
This first part is so obviously a red herring, there is no need to respond other than to point that out. We declare the Scriptures.
You know, it's very revealing to read through these threads of debates of salvation by grace versus works based salvation, and to see who's posts are filled with Scriptures, and who's posts are nearly devoid of Scripture.
But this is the part I particularly wanted to respond to:
Christianity is not about salvation first, but about intimacy with the Son and the Father. Salvation comes as a result, yes. We are saved from our old lives, from the world, to a new life in Christ Jesus, where we live by his Spirit.
How ever can you have intimacy with the Son and the Father without reconciliation first???
This brings up the question, how exactly are you defining "salvation"? What does this word mean to you?
To declare that we are saved from the condemnation that is given to the old life all the while not having to walk in the new life offered in Christ Jesus is akin to crying 'Peace, peace' when there is no peace.
This is that "works based salvation" I refer to.
Akin to crying "peace, when there is no peace"? Hardly.
If your salvation from condemnation is based on your future behavior, this is works based, and not grace. Plain and simple.
Also plain and simple:
Romans 5:1-2 ESV
(1) Therefore, since we
have been justified by faith,
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2) Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Having been born again - regenerated as a child of God, we then receive the power to walk in the spirit, no longer a slave to sin. Salvation gives to us that ability, It is not dependant upon our having that ability.
Romans 6:6-7 ESV
(6) We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
(7) For one who has died has been set free from sin.
The blind man who does not believe in the power of God to conform us to his Son by the Spirit believes this teaching to be legalism because he understands only and knows only the power of the flesh. Thus any form of godliness must to him be a lie, since in his experience, there is no power by which one may indeed truly be conformed to Christ, both in action and in Spirit. Thus a carnal man teaches carnal men that God is powerless to make us like his Son, and has in turn made a way whereby, though we remain corrupt, we save our wretched lives.
This argument of yours here . . . how to untangle it?
Rather than try, I will simply continue to proclaim truth.
When we believe in Jesus, receiving His, God gives us rebirth. We cannot earn it. Our rebirth - salvation, that is, the forgiveness of sins, and becoming a child of God forever - is permanent, and enables us to live for God. The spiritual man teaches spiritual men that God's indwelling Spirit has given us new life, and that new life is ours eternally, and will change us to the image of Jesus Christ.
Love in Christ,
Mark