Another unique way that God works. God never does the same thing twice. He is the living God.
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Another unique way that God works. God never does the same thing twice. He is the living God.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 4:7 KJV
[7] For who maketh thee to differ from another ? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it , why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it ?
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God keeps the Devil alive and controls his actions or else the Devil is in control (God).
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
See, this is the thing. God doesn't control. There are not puppet strings. Everyone does what they want to. God transcends even evil into a good outcome. He is God.
I think you are confusing God with a tyrant. God is so far above controlling things. His love transcends all actions...even the most evil things.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I am seeing a lot of Calvinism here.
As in Romans 8, God does not predestined anyone to glorification that does not free will love him first.
He predestined us no one in the lake of fire. They predestined themselves.
God puts suggestions in the hearts of people than it is up to them to follow the remark. You see that clearly in the OT.
He does actions that influence mankind but never forces an individual to an eternal conclusion.
Too much confusion about predestination and foreknowledge.
As in Romans 8, God does not predestined anyone to glorification that does not free will love him first.
He predestined us no one in the lake of fire. They predestined themselves.
God puts suggestions in the hearts of people than it is up to them to follow the remark. You see that clearly in the OT.
He does actions that influence mankind but never forces an individual to an eternal conclusion.
Too much confusion about predestination and foreknowledge.
Everybody chooses what they do because of a reason. God sends the reasons and circumstances that people base their free choices on. This includes the Devil. In this way God is sovereign and people (the Devil) are guilty because they choose what they want most based on the reason God used to control their choice.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
That is false. The Bible says God influences people to actions based on what they already want to do.
Your argument exactly the argument of Calvinism. That God plants and people a desire that they act on free will.
Problem is is not free will when God programs somebody to make that choice thinking they're doing so in free will.
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Rom 12:2
Is there no difference between that which is God's will and that which God permits? God had/has a plan and within that plan was not sin also an expected occurrence in the walks of men?
Consider that which is the right hand of God and that which is the left.
All possible actions, by man or by devil exist because God made it so. What men have been given is the choice between doing things the way God wants them done or in any other way that God has allowed as a possibility. It boils down to the same two choices Joshua described here:
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" Joshua 24:15
Simplified: God's Way or any other way. Which way leads to sin and which way leads to God?
This is partially true. But God works all things, even our decisions, good or bad, after the council of his will. It is easy to reconcile free will and sovereignty if you realize people choose what they want, but God controls the reasons they base their choices on. And so God controls us through our own desires. This includes the Devil and angels too.
“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13) (KJV 1900)
How can God permit people to do anything under their own power when they have none of their own?
“For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28) (KJV 1900)
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I'm not a Calvinist. I simply read the bible and question everything I hear coming from others.
God gave people the ability to choose His Way or not. Before Jesus paid the price even those who would choose rightly [according to God] did not have the power to really walk His Way so except God help them. God seeing their hearts provided help according to His will. God also sees our hearts and provides us with help according to His will... but that help is always in a person who has the Holy Spirit dwelling within.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Augustine said the same. Paul said it first. Calvin only wrote it precisely as a lawyer. Luther embraced it as did all the Reformers in their rebuttal of the RCC who taught Free Will.
They always choose sin, you say, yet, what was that Joshua chose in chapter 24 verse 15 of the book bearing his name? Was that also "grace"? Joshua along with Caleb certainly made the right choice by some means in that they two entered the Promised while so many saved our of Egypt died in the wilderness.
Good choices only come from God's grace. Sinful choices always come from the flesh. "Noah found grace" etc.
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