How Unique are You?

[CoreIssue]

Augustine said the same. Paul said it first. Calvin only wrote it precisely as a lawyer. Luther embraced it as did all the Reformers in their rebuttal of the RCC who taught Free Will.

Paul never taught Calvinism or Arminianism.

He taught what I believe what used to be called secure Arminianism.
You choose Christ by total free will but once born again you are predestined all the way to glorification.

Which is exactly what is taught in Romans 8.

The Bible teaches God will try to steer you to him but will not force you.

 

[amadeus]

Good choices only come from God's grace. Sinful choices always come from the flesh. "Noah found grace" etc.

So what was the difference between those men in the OT who found grace and those now? Why was it that Jesus came?

 

[Dave L]

Paul never taught Calvinism.

Paul taught God's sovereignty in election and predestination. Calvin only picked up on it along with all the reformers and Augustine much earlier.

 

[Dave L]

So what was the difference between those men in the OT who found grace and those now? Why was it that Jesus came?

Jesus needed to atone for all believers of all time.

 

[amadeus]

Jesus needed to atone for all believers of all time.

Is that the only reason Jesus came: To pay a price we could not pay?

What about this?

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

What is this Life?

When we have received it, if we have received it, is our work finished as Jesus work was finished?

 

[Dave L]

Is that the only reason Jesus came: To pay a price we could not pay?

What about this?

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

What is this Life?

When we have received it, if we have received it, is our work finished as Jesus work was finished?

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. But he also says narrow (Greek = full of tribulation) is the way and few their be that find it. So it's not as many make salvation out to be.

 

[Dave L]

Paul never taught Calvinism or Arminianism.

He taught what I believe what used to be called secure Arminianism.
You choose Christ by total free will but once born again you are predestined all the way to glorification.

Which is exactly what is taught in Romans 8.

The Bible teaches God will try to steer you to him but will not force you.

If you take Paul at face value, he taught predestination and election among other things.

 

[GTW27]

How do I underestimate God by saying he is perfect? And that means he has perfect control over all.

Dave, The Lord is so perfect, He is known as The Perfect, for all fall short of Him. In one sentence, He can tear down any false doctrine, for The Truth can only be found in Him, and Him alone. "For when The Perfect comes the imperfect will pass away." Have a blessed day!

 

[CoreIssue]

If you take Paul at face value, he taught predestination and election among other things.

That's a copout excuse.

Election and predestination are not the same.

Romans 8 is forcibly clear in what it says. We love him, he gives us a new birth and then we are predestined to glorification. Nobody can take as God's hand.

 

[Dave L]

That's a copout excuse.

Election and predestination are not the same.

Romans 8 is forcibly clear in what it says. We love him, he gives us a new birth and then we are predestined to glorification. Nobody can take as God's hand.

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Eternal life is without beginning or end. So election and predestination of our salvation is eternally in God.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, The Lord is so perfect, He is known as The Perfect, for all fall short of Him. In one sentence, He can tear down any false doctrine, for The Truth can only be found in Him, and Him alone. "For when The Perfect comes the imperfect will pass away." Have a blessed day!

Are you saying his word is not perfect?

 

[amadeus]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. But he also says narrow (Greek = full of tribulation) is the way and few their be that find it. So it's not as many make salvation out to be.

No, it is not as many make it, but the only correct clarification and explanation of the whole thing comes from God. What is we are to believe in order to have?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

It says, "believeth in him". What is it that Jesus meant by that? I won't stir the pot in that. You have already done that on the trinity and other subjects enough to make it know that there is disagreement among those named as "Christians".

 

[Dave L]

No, it is not as many make it, but the only correct clarification and explanation of the whole thing comes from God. What is we are to believe in order to have?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

It says, "believeth in him". What is it that Jesus meant by that? I won't stir the pot in that. You have already done that on the trinity and other subjects enough to make it know that there is disagreement among those named as "Christians".

Are you saying we cannot form a conclusion about what scripture says? Each to their own so to speak? How can you speak about Christ if you don't define the topic concerning him? The creeds merely defined what scripture says through intense debate and then writing down the results. Everything you say is based on a conclusion isn't it?

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. But he also says narrow (Greek = full of tribulation) is the way and few their be that find it. So it's not as many make salvation out to be.

And yet again your parsing things to fit your claims.

Matthew 7:14 New International Version (NIV)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 2346 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
qlivbw akin to the base of (5147)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Thlibo 3:139,334
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
thlee'-bo Verb
Definition

1. to press (as grapes), press hard upon
2. a compressed way
   1. narrow straitened, contracted
3. metaph. to trouble, afflict, distress

And as always you go with the figurative, not the literal meaning.

It means the way Christ is not easy or open to massive interpretation. Only one way to heaven but many ways to hell.

Nothing hints at tribulation in the chapter.

 

[Dave L]

And yet again your parsing things to fit your claims.

Matthew 7:14 New International Version (NIV)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 2346 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
qlivbw akin to the base of (5147)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Thlibo 3:139,334
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
thlee'-bo Verb
Definition

1. to press (as grapes), press hard upon
2. a compressed way
   1. narrow straitened, contracted
3. metaph. to trouble, afflict, distress

And as always you go with the figurative, not the literal meaning.

It means the way Christ is not easy or open to massive interpretation. Only one way to heaven but many ways to hell.

Nothing hints at tribulation in the chapter.

"Narrow" = 22.21 θλίβωb: to cause someone to suffer trouble or hardship—‘to cause trouble to, to persecute, to cause to suffer hardship.’ ἀνταποδοῦναι τοῖς θλίβουσιν ὑμᾶς θλῖψιν ‘to bring suffering on those who make you suffer’ 2 Th 1:6; στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδός ‘the gate is narrow and the way is difficult (to travel)’ Mt 7:14.

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 244). New York: United Bible Societies.

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Eternal life is without beginning or end. So election and predestination of our salvation is eternally in God.

We are not without beginning.

Yet again try to dismiss free will. Very Calvin of you.

 

[Dave L]

We are not without beginning.

Yet again try to dismiss free will. Very Calvin of you.

We are eternally saved in God. Carried out in time.

 

[CoreIssue]

"Narrow" = 22.21 θλίβωb: to cause someone to suffer trouble or hardship—‘to cause trouble to, to persecute, to cause to suffer hardship.’ ἀνταποδοῦναι τοῖς θλίβουσιν ὑμᾶς θλῖψιν ‘to bring suffering on those who make you suffer’ 2 Th 1:6; στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδός ‘the gate is narrow and the way is difficult (to travel)’ Mt 7:14.

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 244). New York: United Bible Societies.

Review Article - <P ALIGN="JUSTIFY">Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida. <I>Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains</I>. New York: United Bible Societies, 1988; Vol. 1, 843 pp., Vol. 2 (Indices), 375 pp., $20.00 cloth, ISBN: 0-8267-0340-2 (set).</P> - Kerux 5:3 (Dec 1990)

They used a theoretical approach to linguistics. Which is why they're basically unheard of.

And the United Bible societies is a partner with the world Council of churches.

And you want to use them?

 

[amadeus]

Are you saying we cannot form a conclusion about what scripture says? Each to their own so to speak? How can you speak about Christ if you don't define the topic concerning him? The creeds merely defined what scripture says through intense debate and then writing down the results. Everything you say is based on a conclusion isn't it?

Of course, each of us can form a conclusion, but only God is always be right in a discussion or debate unless a participant has already overcome the world completely as Jesus did. Then, the overcomer is most certainly also right. Were the winners of those debates overcomers? Only God and another overcomer can definitely correctly answer that question.

 

[CoreIssue]

We are eternally saved in God. Carried out in time.

Care to try to define that answer?