Humpty Dumpty Christianity: GEOgram September 30, 2011

[texian]

I posted this on Facebook today. I didn't write it.

GEOgram for September 30, 2011; The link to this Yahoo Group is too long to put on Facebook. This is a quote from parts of the message for September 30, 2011:

"...in a recent conversation I had with a Christian leader of some repute, he was describing his bewilderment over so much controversy within the various factions of prophecy and Biblical interpretation... he noted how the overwhelming majority of believers have no idea concerning modestly sophisticated concepts such as Arminianism, Amillennialism, Preterism, or even Historicism, Futurism, or Dispensationalism; so he blithely told me he wasn't going to take any position on prophecy."

"In other words, he had decided to take Flight, rather than Fight for the truth because with "so many fine Christians" holding to so many diverse views, he felt he was not in a position to receive the absolute truth."

"This point of view is widespread, and it is a tacit confession the person does not believe anyone actually has all the truth. In the midst of the great falling away of our time, in which the Christianized Tower of Babel speaks in so many theological dialects, its not difficult to recognize this sad state of affairs. After all, Jesus did tell us the Kingdom of God would be completely leavened after all three "measures" had been applied to the body of Christ. However, He also flatly told the believers they will know the truth (with the word know indicating an intimacy in the realm of the Spirit as that seen when Adam knew Eve his wife), and the TRUTH would set us free: "And ye shall KNOW the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8: 32)

My comment: John 8: 32 is written in large letters on the lower building of the tower of the University of Texas at Austin - but the "truth" in this setting refers to man's knowledge. I will try to put a photo of the inscription on near here.

'This profound relationship with the TRUTH of Jesus Christ is not what we see in the fractured religion of our time, for the contemporary church would be more at home worshipping Humpty Dumpty than Jesus. Indeed the fictional figure was noteworthy because of the fact that he was split into so many pieces, and like the "church" of out time, not one is able to put "Humpty" back together again."

"...whenever I receive one of the barbed reproaches or rebukes which come my way on a regular basis, I recognize that at least this person still has a pulse, and i know that even an aggressive blind man may eventually find the door. The Lukewarm party, on the other hand, is the one who knows of the apostasy of so many, but will continue to dialogue with them because they believe that everyone they encounter has at least part of the puzzle, so they proceed to take what they perceive to be the "good parts" from this multitude of blind guides, and combining them all into one customized version of the Gospel, they try to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

This is how the Beast arrived, in the form of a composite gospel with a thousand variations, but the truth is, there is only ONE Gospel. Thus, whenever I encounter that ever changing Beast, Flight is not an option, so out comes the Sword of Truth, because it looks like there's going to be a Fight.

"It was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was ONCE delivered unto the Saints" (Jude 1:3)

 

[Israelsson]

Well put I think, there is an enormous rate of apostasy in our church today, and mostly due to leaders allowing the government to determine what they will preach. Many churches are what is known as a 501(c)3, meaning tax exempt status. But are they tax exempt out of the niceness of our leaders, or are they tax exempt because they are greedy, and seek only to teach filth.

To qualify for this status, you must be willing to let the government choose the doctrine that will be taught, its actually communist when you think of it! So if a church is more worries about numbers than feeding the sheep, they will surely grow into power. People like things which are attractive to others, and if the majority of a religion are adhering to certain principles, it makes sense that they would twist the scripture for their own benefit. This is why, I believe, there is so much conflict in the church due to the fact that rather than come together and agree on truth, men will decide they only like a certain message, and never even consider another interpretation other than their own.

We should contend for the faith, just as Jacob fought an angel for his birthright. We should never cease to not only defend the truth, but announce it as well. This isn't a request from God, this is our DUTY as Christians.

 

[veteran]

Everything is right on schedule per God's Word. Even as Apostle Paul commended those at Berea which verified for themselves in Scripture as to what Paul was preaching, we have since long ago been given that example. Those who stay in God's Word as written, getting the whole Loaf into the mind and heart by The Holy Spirit would never be inclined to support religious system doctrines of men over God's Holy Writ.

The matter is simple, either we listen to God in His Word, or we listen to mammon. We cannot serve both like Jesus said.

 

[BibleScribe]

To All,

Bible prophecy is is not something man can grasp. God is simply playing a trick on mankind, -- NOT!!!!!

The fact is, people are inherently lazy. They read a single verse out of ~Daniel 11~ and instead of researching that verse within the context the entire chapter, they simply assign the significance to ANY number of historical/modern/future events.

-- If one simply read Daniel 2:45, they should discover that there are not Four world empires, THERE ARE FIVE.. (Iron, bronze, clay, silver, gold, [4,3,5,2,1] = FIVE.) But do you think anyone is going to believe Scripture when it contradicts their long held views?

So the question should be, -- why is the church stupid? The answer is simple, the church does not allow the members of the body to share collective giftings. Because if they did, someone might be out of order, and rather than deal with that prospect, they avoid that risk altogether.

But Scripture says:

1 Cor 14:26-30
[sup]26[/sup] What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. [sup]27[/sup] If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. [sup]28[/sup] If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. [sup]29[/sup] Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. [sup]30[/sup] And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop.


So instead, the hand says to the foot, "I have no need of thee", and false doctrines are taught because the scholars provided their best ~guess~, and the ignorant "paid-leadership" heeded their advice, instead allowing the TRUTH from someone in the pews who has been given that revelation.



BibleScribe

 

[tim_from_pa]

Well, Texian and Veteran, let me be the third one to contribute to this two-posted thread so far.

I want your thoughts on this.

Paul said we know in part and prophecy in part, and see through a glass darkly. Do you think that applies here with prophecy as well?

Yes, God's Word has everything in it for us to understand by His Spirit. But where is there a Spirit-filled man or woman without the influences of the flesh (until they one day physically die)? In other words, if God's Word is like a transmitter, we are the receivers, but being corrupted are filtering it through out prejudices, ignorance, or misunderstandings. Some doctrine is straightforward and are the essentials of the faith and not really negotiable. Others are what I call the fine details. Such a "difference" in belief I find usually revolves around more trivial stuff such as the timing of the event, perhaps the place, or the understanding the full purpose. Ezekiel 38 is an example. Theologians for years debated when this takes place, and perhaps who Gog and Magog is. It's not really clear. Most people know it's going to happen, but the timing that they believe may be off.

Since there's so many facts in prophecy, the odds of everyone having them all correct is like throwing 500 heads in a row. One person may be right on one thing and wrong on another, and yet another is right where the others are wrong, but then they have something else wrong---- and pays to come together to understand things better (still not perfectly). It's like this with even science, medicine being a prime example. We only know in part and don't fully understand. That's the point of God ushering in His Kingdom on this earth one day, so that deception and delusion will be eradicated (in addition to giving people His salvation).

 

[BibleScribe]

Well, Texian and Veteran, let me be the third one to contribute to this two-posted thread so far.
...

Actually three-posted, and yours made four.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

I think you guys care about doctrine way too much. I don't see much value in discussing it all the time. We have the Bible God's word and Jesus inside of us, explain why we need doctrine at all ?

 

[BibleScribe]

Hi Comm.Arnold,

I don't see this as a doctrinal issue, but rather a church issue. Either one paid individual makes all the decisions and does all the talking, or we all participate. And where there is inherent weakness in the former, Scripture supports the latter.


BibleScribe

 

[tim_from_pa]

I think you guys care about doctrine way too much. I don't see much value in discussing it all the time. We have the Bible God's word and Jesus inside of us, explain why we need doctrine at all ?

I can't answer for the other two, but I use doctrine synonymous with belief and/or teaching. Of course it involves truth. But not doctrine in the sense of lifeless, regimented beliefs. Ever notice how many churches innumerate their "doctrine" like a list of actors in the bible? What we believe about God: yadayadayada, What we believe about Jesus Christ etc etc, Holy Spirit, Man, Sin, Satan, Heaven, Hell and so on and so forth. That's placing God's Word in a box, and traditions of men. I don't consider that "doctrine". Oh, they call it that, but it's regimented listings devoid of the Spirit.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Hi Comm.Arnold,

I don't see this as a doctrinal issue, but rather a church issue. Either one paid individual makes all the decisions and does all the talking, or we all participate. And where there is inherent weakness in the former, Scripture supports the latter.


BibleScribe

Oh does it now mister big brain with your fancy neurons and your mighty synapses, what scripture is that ?

 

[BibleScribe]

Oh does it now mister big brain with your fancy neurons and your mighty synapses, what scripture is that ?

1 Cor 14:26-30
[sup]26[/sup] What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. [sup]27[/sup] If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. [sup]28[/sup] If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. [sup]29[/sup] Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. [sup]30[/sup] And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop.


Post #4?

 

[Comm.Arnold]

1 Cor 14:26-30
[sup]26[/sup] What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. [sup]27[/sup] If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. [sup]28[/sup] If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. [sup]29[/sup] Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. [sup]30[/sup] And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop.


Post #4?

Good Call ! That sounds more educational.

 

[Israelsson]

Oh does it now mister big brain with your fancy neurons and your mighty synapses, what scripture is that ?

Without doctrine, we would never debate to learn truth. One must be willing to accept truth even if its not what they thought it would be. So, to say that doctrine is not important is like saying that it doesn't matter what you believe, you'll still go to heaven. There is only one TRUE doctrine, and I think the verse provided by BS alludes to that fact as well. If we all go our separate ways never once acknowledging that a certain dogma is scriptural or not, then we are merely blind leading the blind.

 

[aspen]

All those Christian terms are meaningless - they are part of our need to categorize and sum up our beliefs in theological terms - they are equal to the tower of Babel - sounds fancy, but holds no redeeming value towards our salvation. The ability to form theological and doctrinal arguments will not be apart of the Judgment.

This need to describe God and our relationship with Him is often a dodge - it keeps us from practicing our sanctification by loving God and others.