I Am the First and the Last

[Rocky Wiley]

What are your thoughts?

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus is saying he is God and is the beginning and the ending.

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:

Jesus is again saying he is God, the first and the last.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Here is my take and questions on the scriptures above.

God has no beginning and ending, so when he says the is the first and the last it appears to be stating he was Adam and Jesus. Also we know God can not die so again it is about Adam and Jesus.

Please give your ideas. Would like for you to keep it brief and give scripture if any available.

 

[Sargento]

Hi Rocky...

It's simpler than that...

Jesus is the beginning and the ending because HE created this creation and HE will end it...
...that's what HE is talking about before and after that verses you've quoted; the END of this creation, the last days, the day of the LORD.

He started it and will end it... HE was in the beginning and will be in the end.... for this creation HE is the beginning and the end.

By the way, this is Jesus, NOT the FATHER.... HE is GOD, but HE is not the FATHER... but that's another matter.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi Rocky...

It's simpler than that...

Jesus is the beginning and the ending because HE created this creation and HE will end it...
...that's what HE is talking about before and after that verses you've quoted; the END of this creation, the last days, the day of the LORD.

He started it and will end it... HE was in the beginning and will be in the end.... for this creation HE is the beginning and the end.

By the way, this is Jesus, NOT the FATHER.... HE is GOD, but HE is not the FATHER... but that's another matter.

Hi Sargento,

So, you feel that Jesus was speaking as God and as God he was also once dead? Rev 1:18

 

[Sargento]

Has GOD yes, but not has the father... Jesus is one person, the father is another one... they are not the same although Jesus is a GOD like we (Christians) also are.

He died but only after HE became sin (mortal), not has a god because a god is immortal for death cannot touch a god ... first the father left him in the cross (which made HIM mortal and not a god), than HE died being a sinner not a god...

A GOD cannot die, for HIM to die HE first had to become mortal which was what happened when HE said "my GOD, why have you left me?"... at that moment GOD's spirit abandon HIM and he became mortal like any man... HE became like a son of Adam.


Mind this... I'm not talking about flesh... his flesh was so mortal has any man's even before HE became mortal.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Has GOD yes, but not has the father... Jesus is one person, the father is another one... they are not the same although Jesus is a GOD like we (Christians) also are.

He died but only after HE became sin (mortal), not has a god because a god is immortal for death cannot touch a god ... first the father left him in the cross (which made HIM mortal and not a god), than HE died being a sinner not a god...

A GOD cannot die, for HIM to die HE first had to become mortal which was what happened when HE said "my GOD, why have you left me?"... at that moment GOD's spirit abandon HIM and he became mortal like any man... HE became like a son of Adam.


Mind this... I'm not talking about flesh... his flesh was so mortal has any man's even before HE became mortal.

Sargento,

My question was "Is Jesus speaking as a man or as God?).

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death

He is talking about his death, I think he must be talking as a man and that was the first man and the last.

 

[jiggyfly]

I believe that it has to do with the beginning of creation and then the restitution of all things created.

1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He existed in the beginning with God.3 God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.4 The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone.5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.
John 1:1-5 (NLT)

Creation began in and through the Son.

Then times of refreshment will come from the presence of the Lord, and he will again send you Jesus, your appointed Messiah.21 For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Acts 3:20-21 (NLT)

All things will be restored as it was in the beginning.

15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, 16 for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.17 He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together.18 Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead. So he is first in everything.19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:15-22 (NLT)

This indeed has been Father's plan from the beginning.

9 God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure.10 And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth.
Eph 1:9-10 (NLT)

 

[afaithfulone4u]

I believe that it has to do with the beginning of creation and then the restitution of all things created.

1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He existed in the beginning with God.3 God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.4 The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone.5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.
John 1:1-5 (NLT)

Creation began in and through the Son.

Then times of refreshment will come from the presence of the Lord, and he will again send you Jesus, your appointed Messiah.21 For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Acts 3:20-21 (NLT)

All things will be restored as it was in the beginning.

15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, 16 for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.17 He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together.18 Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead. So he is first in everything.19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:15-22 (NLT)

This indeed has been Father's plan from the beginning.

9 God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure.10 And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth.
Eph 1:9-10 (NLT)

You have eyes to see there jiggyfly!! The Word was in the beginning long before God created the earth and it was not the Father who died upon the cross... God forsook His Word or the old covenant Word upon the cross to give us a NEW covenant Word and the Spirit to help us overcome our sinful flesh man to be reborn by the Spirit THROUGH obedience to the Word... who became FLESH to redeem mankind legally as a man yet in the likeness(attributes) image of God.

Jesus could claim to be equal with God because God is exactly as His Word. And the Word reveals to us THE FATHER.
Jesus is ON the right hand of God because the Father creates everything with, through and by His WORD whom we know as Jesus the Christ.

Why are we told to be clothed in Christ? Because we must be COVERED in the Word of God.
Why was Jesus' garment seamless? Because there is no beginning and no end to the Word of God.

 

[Sargento]

ROCKY...

Sargento,

My question was "Is Jesus speaking as a man or as God?).

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death

He is talking about his death, I think he must be talking as a man and that was the first man and the last.

I really am trying to understand what you're asking and the understanding behind that question...

What do you mean by "as man" or "as GOD"?

HE is talking about his death yes... HE was generated saint (GOD), then HE became man (on that moment on the cross) and died (spiritually) and then resurrected again by GOD becoming a GOD again.

Is this what you want to know? If not then explain yourself better...

 

[The_highwayman]

Folks, the answers to this are found in John 1 and Philipians 2.

The word was made flesh, even before the cross.

 

[Sargento]

HI Highway...

Yes, HE was made flesh in HIS body before the cross, but HIS spirit was still GOD.
But on the cross HIS spirit became also man (son of Adam - carnal - mortal - living soul), until that moment HE was saint (vivifying spirit), at that moment HE stop being GOD and became man... however I thinks this is not the question of Rocky.

 

[aspen]

Jesus was fully man and fully God, at all times - He cannot be divided according to the doctrine of the Incarnation! Accepted by all orthodox Christians.

 

[Sargento]

Fully man and fully GOD??? Are you aware of what you said??

My friend, in the flesh HE was a man for in his flesh lived sin just like in any natural man, but in spirit HE was GOD for he was born holy and vivifying spirit... his condition was like ours after we reborn... however in the cross HE died just like we BEFORE we are reborn.

Fully man and fully GOD??? Full darkness and full light??
Full sin and full perfect?

 

[jiggyfly]

You have eyes to see there jiggyfly!! The Word was in the beginning long before God created the earth and it was not the Father who died upon the cross... God forsook His Word or the old covenant Word upon the cross to give us a NEW covenant Word and the Spirit to help us overcome our sinful flesh man to be reborn by the Spirit THROUGH obedience to the Word... who became FLESH to redeem mankind legally as a man yet in the likeness(attributes) image of God.

Jesus could claim to be equal with God because God is exactly as His Word. And the Word reveals to us THE FATHER.
Jesus is ON the right hand of God because the Father creates everything with, through and by His WORD whom we know as Jesus the Christ.

Why are we told to be clothed in Christ? Because we must be COVERED in the Word of God.
Why was Jesus' garment seamless? Because there is no beginning and no end to the Word of God.

Very good questions and insight, thanks for the encouragement. I am going to study on this more. God bless you.

 

[aspen]

Sargento -

Your view of Christ is not orthodox.

It is strange to me that you would be surprised regarding my view of Christ because it is the same view of the Early Church, Church Fathers, the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Churches, and the Protestant Churches. It is the view of Orthodoxy, based on the Bible and the Doctrine of the Incarnation.

Your view most resembles Gnosticism.