I Didn't Choose to Be an Agnostic

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quietthinker

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Ok why isn’t this scripture homophobic then? “Because it just isn’t” isn’t a legitimate answer.
View attachment 27688
Are you homosexual Romanov?.....maybe you are, maybe you're not. In any case, homosexuality is dysfunctional.....just like greed or selfishness is; just like capitalism and communism is. Now when that registers, we can explore it! As long as these dispositions or systems are justified, there is no solution to prejudice and any type of relational alienation.
 

quietthinker

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I’m asking you to justify the homophobic verse Leviticus 18:22 and you’re going in circles around it. Probably because it cannot be justified.
I have no interest in justifying Leviticus 18:22. I have interest in understanding its intent and why.
 

quietthinker

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Ok why isn’t this scripture homophobic then? “Because it just isn’t” isn’t a legitimate answer.
View attachment 27688
It's mandatory to get healthy principles clear in your own mind first. To know what function and dysfunction consist of.
Trying to fix a broken computer with a broken computer is not possible.
 

thelord's_pearl

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it's ok to say it if you're gay but you don't have to. I actually like a lot of gay men, I find. I think there are a lot of gay men who are lovely/nice, I don't know why people are gay but I stand that homosexual activity is not right and God views it in the way I've posted earlier too.
 
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thelord's_pearl

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if you're someone who's gay and struggle with homosexual activity and want to be a Christian then you'd just have to pray with a contrite heart to God.....

Psalm 51:17

New International Version


17 My sacrifice, O God, is[a] a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.
 
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thelord's_pearl

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@quietthinker is right, people can be homophobic, not Jesus/God. God judges, for example, saying it's wrong, man lay with man (Lev. 18:22), but is not judgmental. people can be judgmental, not God.

Leviticus 18:22

22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
 
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Taken

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Being an agnostic, for me, is unpleasant. It's empty and unrewarding. I'm not happy with it. If I liked it I wouldn't be here asking you questions.
I'm here looking for the way out of it. I'm going to read everyone's replies, one each day, and think about them, and see if you've given me the bridge across the gap I don't seem to be able to get across by myself. (Of course I'll continue reading the Bible and praying.) I've tried the accepting Jesus prayer and lots of other things; no results, but maybe there's something here.
If there is a God then that's the most important thing in the world. I don't want to miss Him, and I don't want to disappoint Him.

Sorry for yet another "me" thread but I wanted to be sure everyone who looks down here saw this. You have been kind to me and I want you to understand.
If you still can't understand, maybe it's unavoidable; our minds work differently and our challenges are different. Maybe I'm even one of those people that God doesn't want so that it's impossible for me to believe.

Thank you for your replies on the other threads.

Scripture teaches...
Jesus IS the Word of God
Jesus IS the Truth
Jesus IS the Life
Jesus IS the Way
Christ IS the Power of God
Christ IS the Wisdom
Christ IS the Seed of God

Scripture teaches...
Trust God

The issue is ... NOT hoping God WILL MAKE YOU BELIEVE... He Doesn’t.
The issue is ... YOU deciding for YOURSELF “if you WANT to Believe”.

God is NOT ABOUT Him PROVING His existence...BY, showing Himself, to all men, BY, speaking an audible voice to all men.

God CHOSE a few men, spoke to them, in visions, in A voice they could hear.
THEIR “appointment” (assignment if you will)...was to TEACH the World “ABOUT” God. And such “appointment”/ “assignments” Were entrusted BY God, TO men, who “agreed” to do AS “employed” by God.

(The Prophets).

God repeatedly TAUGHT the WHOLE World...
1) Hear “Prophecy” (which IS a FORETELLING, and FORESHADOWING)....OF “what” SHALL occur (ie come to pass)...BEFORE it literally comes to pass, according to HOW God Foretold it WOULD come to pass.
2) Open “your eyes” SEE what IS the makeup and contents IN and OF the world, the animals, the plants, the sky’s, the planets, stars, sun, moon, the mountains, the seas, the minerals, oils, the weather effects...and the powers thereof....the heat of the sun, the roaring waves, lightening strikes, etc. etc. ....
God Declares THESE (and etc.) are His creations and makings....<—> KNOWLEDGE revealed in His Word.

It IS your option to TRUST to BELIEVE what your own eyes Have Seen of Gods Majestic WORKS....ARE Gods Works...or attributed to someone else that HAS laid CLAIM to Creating and Making the very things God has CLAIMED to have Created and Made.

In essence....IF NOT GOD....then What? Science? Modern Sciences are grouped into categories of particular studies; (man, animals, plants, etc.)
OF Discoveries (of Gods Creations)...
AND Uses (of Gods Creations)...
and Science was Scripturally Taught...intended for men to Discover and Use the “discoveries” FOR “GOOD” purposes and intents, as a “good Benefit for mankind”....(Gold, oil, minerals, etc.)

TRUSTING to BELIEVE is a mans OPTION, of a man exercising his own “FREEWILL”...
By Gods Design of Man-KIND....Freewill is every mans God given LIBERTY to freely CHOOSE what he decides to BELIEVE (or not).

Scripture IS FIrst of “a book of KNOWLEDGE”.
Scripture IS TWO-fold...
1) Foremost...KNOWLEDGE God DESIRES men to “freely” Trust to agree with and follow.
2) Secondly...KNOWLEDGE God DESIRES men to “freely” Trust to reject and not agree with or follow.

It’s a conundrum of sorts. Because BOTH of what God Desires a man TO TRUST and what God Desires a man to REJECT, are mingled within the Biblical Text..... as are the Consequences for that which a man DOES freely choose.

You could go through the Biblical texts, Outline the Biblical Desires of God for mankind.......TO DO THIS......and for mankind......TO NOT DO THAT....
AND? Point by Point freely choose to FOLLOW either LIST!
AND? The “consequences” thereof....”plainly taught” would be your reward.

You have to come to terms with yourself...if NOT God...then Who. Who has CLAIMED to be the Almighty Creator and Maker, that captures your attention to believe Him? Trust Him?
And if NOT Gods Power...then What? What Power has revealed itself Greater than Gods CLAIMS....?

The beginning of FAITH (which Faith IS a Gift from God)...IS Hearing/reading Gods Word.
Key word....beginning...hear a little measure of Scripture...receive a little measure of Faith.
Notice what is missing? The key word....believing what you hear.
THAT “begins and increases” as you BEGIN and CONTINUE to receive “FAITH”.

AND...don’t confuse KNOWLEDGE with UNDERSTANDING. (Ie MEANING)
Scripture IS KNOWLEDGE.
Understanding the Knowledge...IS a common conundrum...
1) It is tempting, and easy, and natural for men to “use, rely on” their CARNAL MIND to ponder, cipher, weigh, logically, decide what makes sense....and land on a conclusion of WHAT Gods Word “MEANS”...

* False prophets, False teachers, Philosophers, even “so called Christian Churches” etc. FOR CENTURIES have had a small hand-full of men gathered in Counsels...”carnally minded”...determining WHAT Gods Word “MEANS”.

2) FACT IS: A man ... “WITH” God..and or “IN” Christ...
The Lord God Himself “GIVES” individual men ... His Understanding of His own Word.

And to note...the difference between WITH...and IN...
A man WITH God...is a man WHOM God is WITH.
( that is a good...yet unsteady, even can be dangerous position)...and WHY, is because;
At ANY TIME the man CAN FREELY...”leave being WITH God”...and the consequence is:...”God will ALSO leave being WITH that man”.


A man “IN” Christ...is a man WHOM:
1) Heartfully BELIEVES Gods Word...
And
2) Has DECLARED his True Heartful Belief...
(BEFORE his physical bodily Death.)
3) That such man IS agreeing to lay down his bodily life unto death...FOR his belief in and love of the Lord God.
4) Jesus’ taught Offering...was “a mans spiritual crucifixion WITH Jesus’ body...satisfies a man Laying down his bodily life....BEFORE the mans PHYSICAL body dies...that that man RECEIVES his gift of salvation THEN...instead of having to WAIT for his physical bodily death.
5) Such man ALSO receives Gods SEED, (before physical bodily death), which births a man’s NEW spiritual spirit...(never subject to death).
6) Such man ALSO receives Gods SPIRIT....not only WITH that man...but IN that man (called Baptism of the Holy Spirit)...and remains IN that man as long as that mans body is physically ALIVE.
7) Intent and purpose ? Gods TRUTH...Gods POWER (ie Spirit)...in that man, that that man is “PREPARED” to carry out works, that Glorify Gods Name, anywhere, any place, any time...on the face of the Whole world.
8) those works...do NOT save a man...those works are accomplished BY a man WHO IS SAVED (soul restored) and QUICKENED (Holy Spirit baptized...ie spirit born OF God).
9) Those works...are “rewarded” by Christ the Lord Jesus...WHEN He returns to earth.

Perhaps some things to ponder....perhaps some answers to your wonderings.
Any questions of what I have written...Be specific...and I will answer.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Taken

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I Didn't Choose to Be an Agnostic​

OP^

Something to Ponder...
* Man has freewill To CHOOSE whom he WILL follow.
* For a man to be WITH God and God WITH that man....as well For a man to be IN Christ and the Spirit of God IN that man....<—-THAT EXPRESSLY IS BY the mans “CHOOSING” and Gods “RESPONSE” to the mans CHOICE.

Knowledge to Know...
* A man WHO elects to NOT MAKE A CHOICE OF God...IS ACCOUNTED according to Gods Word.................AGAINST GOD.....PERIOD.

* a man who is UNSURE, pondering, fence sitting (kind of waiting to see, and hoping to jump on board after he has SEEN the Lord....)
IS A FAIL....tooo late....opportunity door closed.


Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Luke 11:
[23] He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me Scattered.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Romanov2488

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Are you homosexual Romanov?.....maybe you are, maybe you're not. In any case, homosexuality is dysfunctional.....just like greed or selfishness is; just like capitalism and communism is. Now when that registers, we can explore it! As long as these dispositions or systems are justified, there is no solution to prejudice and any type of relational alienation.
No I’m not homosexual, I’m straight. It’s called being straight but not narrow. I just know that what the Bible says regarding homosexuality is cut and dry, no opportunity to obfuscate what it says pertaining homosexuality.

How is homosexuality dysfunctional? There’s plenty of homosexual people who do their part in society who are neither greedy nor selfish. You are justifying bigotry here, there is no rational basis for it. Who is anyone to interfere between two people being in love? You know there’s homosexuality among animals as well right?

Look at the dysfunctionality of the Bible along with its religion. This is why it’s losing its foothold in modern society and growing ever more unpopular with time. Christianity just took a big loss with Congress passing the same sex marriage bill. Do you realize it’s the state which allows Christianity to be practiced in the U.S. and not the other way around?

Your God along with your book is homophobic. I believe Jesus did also say that everyone is the child of God but let’s ignore that part so that we can persecute the gays right?

Why should a bigoted God and book be worthy of any respect?
 

Romanov2488

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@quietthinker is right, people can be homophobic, not Jesus/God. God judges, for example, saying it's wrong, man lay with man (Lev. 18:22), but is not judgmental. people can be judgmental, not God.

Leviticus 18:22

22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
No, it’s extremely judgemental and discriminatory and modern society disagrees with you here. Good luck on succeeding politically with that mindset. I’d love to see billboards saying that Christianity is an abomination and detestable, wouldn’t that be a sight. Oh wait I forgot, that would be discrimination of Christians right? So it doesn’t work in that direction, it’s only has to work in the direction of discriminating the gays.

If you were in power and Christianity was in power overall, you know you would persecute the gays in the name of your bigoted God and book. Your God is also up there with Hitler when it comes to genocide.

Let’s justify the misogyny up next.
4965E35E-367F-4B27-98B6-966AF118BDCA.jpeg
 
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quietthinker

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No I’m not homosexual, I’m straight. It’s called being straight but not narrow. I just know that what the Bible says regarding homosexuality is cut and dry, no opportunity to obfuscate what it says pertaining homosexuality.

How is homosexuality dysfunctional? There’s plenty of homosexual people who do their part in society who are neither greedy nor selfish. You are justifying bigotry here, there is no rational basis for it. Who is anyone to interfere between two people being in love? You know there’s homosexuality among animals as well right?

Look at the dysfunctionality of the Bible along with its religion. This is why it’s losing its foothold in modern society and growing ever more unpopular with time. Christianity just took a big loss with Congress passing the same sex marriage bill. Do you realize it’s the state which allows Christianity to be practiced in the U.S. and not the other way around?

Your God along with your book is homophobic. I believe Jesus did also say that everyone is the child of God but let’s ignore that part so that we can persecute the gays right?

Why should a bigoted God and book be worthy of any respect?
We are all greedy and selfish :) ....when you use God's measure.
Of course if we use our own measure anything is justifiable and dysfunction is not seen as dysfunction but argued to be just another expression of humanity. From that position everything is justifiable; murder, lies, unfaithfulness, beastiality, pedophilia, segregation, racism, sexism and very evil which flows from mans heart.
 

Lapidem

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Lots of evasion in this thread.

Is anyone going to deal with the Leviticus verse that has been raised ?
 

thelord's_pearl

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Take pedophilia, for example, an adult man loving an under-aged teenager is wrong. The age is not right. So as when two homosexual men or women love each other, the anatomy isn't right so what they do in the bedroom wouldn't be right. I'm still learning so I will leave it at that.
 

Romanov2488

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We are all greedy and selfish :) ....when you use God's measure.
Of course if we use our own measure anything is justifiable and dysfunction is not seen as dysfunction but argued to be just another expression of humanity. From that position everything is justifiable; murder, lies, unfaithfulness, beastiality, pedophilia, segregation, racism, sexism and very evil which flows from mans heart.
You cannot compare homosexuality to murder and pedophilia. That’s justifying bigotry.
 
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Romanov2488

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Take pedophilia, for example, an adult man loving an under-aged teenager is wrong. The age is not right. So as when two homosexual men or women love each other, the anatomy isn't right so what they do in the bedroom wouldn't be right. I'm still learning so I will leave it at that.
If the anatomy wasn’t right, they both wouldn’t enjoy it. It’s only seething Christians that have a problem with this. How dare two people love one another and get pleasure out of it?!?! Many gay people report being fundamentally gay. Since God made them way, then why would he make them only so they could be bound for hell?

Imagine how shameful it would be if a homosexual man saved a Christian’s life only for the Christian to tell him to repent thinking he’s doing the right thing.
 
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Ezra

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Being an agnostic, for me, is unpleasant. It's empty and unrewarding. I'm not happy with it. If I liked it I wouldn't be here asking you questions.
I'm here looking for the way out of it. I'm going to read everyone's replies, one each day, and think about them, and see if you've given me the bridge across the gap I don't seem to be able to get across by myself. (Of course I'll continue reading the Bible and praying.) I've tried the accepting Jesus prayer and lots of other things; no results, but maybe there's something here.
If there is a God then that's the most important thing in the world. I don't want to miss Him, and I don't want to disappoint Him.

Sorry for yet another "me" thread but I wanted to be sure everyone who looks down here saw this. You have been kind to me and I want you to understand.
If you still can't understand, maybe it's unavoidable; our minds work differently and our challenges are different. Maybe I'm even one of those people that God doesn't want so that it's impossible for me to believe.

Thank you for your replies on the other threads.
i dont think your agnostic your just lost having a hard time accepting . the longer you reject Christ the harder it will be to be saved /due to a hardened heart .but there is hope reach out cry out and receive by faith
 

Romanov2488

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I am comparing it to a dysfunction. I don't think thats bigotry.
It is bigotry because you are discriminating and being prejudiced. Why are your people and Bible calling for the execution of gay people?
527E39E2-1486-4FA0-A755-38F0CB1323FA.jpeg
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-Phil

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It's mandatory to get healthy principles clear in your own mind first. To know what function and dysfunction consist of.
Trying to fix a broken computer with a broken computer is not possible.
Take pedophilia, for example, an adult man loving an under-aged teenager is wrong. The age is not right. So as when two homosexual men or women love each other, the anatomy isn't right so what they do in the bedroom wouldn't be right. I'm still learning so I will leave it at that.

I Didn't Choose to Be an Agnostic​

OP^

Something to Ponder...
* Man has freewill To CHOOSE whom he WILL follow.
* For a man to be WITH God and God WITH that man....as well For a man to be IN Christ and the Spirit of God IN that man....<—-THAT EXPRESSLY IS BY the mans “CHOOSING” and Gods “RESPONSE” to the mans CHOICE.

Knowledge to Know...
* A man WHO elects to NOT MAKE A CHOICE OF God...IS ACCOUNTED according to Gods Word.................AGAINST GOD.....PERIOD.

* a man who is UNSURE, pondering, fence sitting (kind of waiting to see, and hoping to jump on board after he has SEEN the Lord....)
IS A FAIL....tooo late....opportunity door closed.


Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Luke 11:
[23] He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me Scattered.

Glory to God,
Taken
False prophets, False teachers, Philosophers, even “so called Christian Churches” etc. FOR CENTURIES have had a small hand-full of men gathered in Counsels...”carnally minded”...determining WHAT Gods Word “MEANS”.

What if you didn’t ‘know’, or, weren’t ‘eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil’, (right & wrong, functional & dysfunctional, with me & against me, true & false, etc)…?

But of course, not a one can let the illusion of knowing knowledge go, and continue to believe in one’s conception or idea (‘knowledge’) of God. If ye didn’t ‘know’ these things, ye would be without condition, and therein there’d no longer be and never actually have been, ye.

If there’s one thing ye can’t stand for, it’s the apocalypse.