I Didn't Choose to Be an Agnostic

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Matthias

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Just simply - are you aware?

Thanks. I assume he’s aware of a great many things. I thought perhaps you had something specific in mind. Your question, then, is open-ended.
 

thelord's_pearl

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Right on Angelina, we FIRST believe and THEN we receive. And, yes "blindly" believe and watch Him work in your life brother. For a long time, I was like 'how can I believe what I don't see'. Well, what we don't see is more real than this life on earth. I pray you will find your way. Seems you are on the right track, you have a hunger for Him and He will in no wise ignore that. Pray and relax in Him and WAIT with patience.
God bless, and welcome here bro!
I like this. LookingForGod, you should try that after you read the whole Bible and have had discussions about it, I think you can CHOOSE to believe, to then get baptized and RECEIVE the HOLY SPIRIT. God bless you
 
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Pearl

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Being an agnostic, for me, is unpleasant. It's empty and unrewarding. I'm not happy with it. If I liked it I wouldn't be here asking you questions.
I'm here looking for the way out of it. I'm going to read everyone's replies, one each day, and think about them, and see if you've given me the bridge across the gap I don't seem to be able to get across by myself. (Of course I'll continue reading the Bible and praying.) I've tried the accepting Jesus prayer and lots of other things; no results, but maybe there's something here.
If there is a God then that's the most important thing in the world. I don't want to miss Him, and I don't want to disappoint Him.

Sorry for yet another "me" thread but I wanted to be sure everyone who looks down here saw this. You have been kind to me and I want you to understand.
If you still can't understand, maybe it's unavoidable; our minds work differently and our challenges are different. Maybe I'm even one of those people that God doesn't want so that it's impossible for me to believe.

Thank you for your replies on the other threads.
The way out of being an agnostic is to choose Jesus. Not religion but a relationship with Jesus. Christians are not born Christian, we have all made that choice to receive Jesus into our lives and then we are re-born into God's family. Not just saying we're Christian, not just believing in God, not just reading a bible or going to church meetings. We Must be born again to be Christians, and not at our infant 'baptism' as the Catholics believe, but we need to recognise the fact we are sinners in need of God's forgiveness and accept Jesus into our hearts. It is that personal relationship with Jesus that makes us Christians.

Not everyone on this site whose info states they are Christian actually is in the real sense of the word. They are subject to the teachings of man made religion. However there are many who are the real thing.
 
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Romanov2488

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Being an agnostic, for me, is unpleasant. It's empty and unrewarding. I'm not happy with it. If I liked it I wouldn't be here asking you questions.
I'm here looking for the way out of it. I'm going to read everyone's replies, one each day, and think about them, and see if you've given me the bridge across the gap I don't seem to be able to get across by myself. (Of course I'll continue reading the Bible and praying.) I've tried the accepting Jesus prayer and lots of other things; no results, but maybe there's something here.
If there is a God then that's the most important thing in the world. I don't want to miss Him, and I don't want to disappoint Him.

Sorry for yet another "me" thread but I wanted to be sure everyone who looks down here saw this. You have been kind to me and I want you to understand.
If you still can't understand, maybe it's unavoidable; our minds work differently and our challenges are different. Maybe I'm even one of those people that God doesn't want so that it's impossible for me to believe.

Thank you for your replies on the other threads.
Asking that question here is just going to end up with having many trying to proselytize you. I’m not going to sit here and give you different chains, a different belief system…but to reinforce your freedom from belief. The religious see anyone who’s not religious as a wounded fish to a shark sniffing blood. I’m an agnostic atheist myself and not one bit of it is unpleasant. The difference between a believer and an agnostic is humility. An agnostic will admit they do not know, a believer wouldn’t. I understand the discomfort of not knowing (which is why many turn to religion to gain comfort), but if you allow yourself to sink into absolute not knowingness, it’s very freeing. The last thing you want to be is a bigoted absolutist who looks down on everyone else who doesn’t agree with their religious view.

Fact of the matter is that there’s no evidence of a god. Don’t let anyone move the goalposts and redefine what evidence is for you. If there is one, we will find out. Until then, there’s no reason to live acting out of a fear of a hell. Sleazy salesmen use the exact same tactic to get you to buy something. Realize deeply that the only reason people choose to believe in a god is due to an infantile mindset of refusing to grow up.

I didn’t choose to be agnostic-atheists either but you know what solidified it? Reading the Bible. There’s far too many contradictions and nonsense that you have to rationalize to yourself in order to accept the Bible.
 
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quietthinker

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Asking that question here is just going to end up with having many trying to proselytize you. I’m not going to sit here and give you different chains, a different belief system…but to reinforce your freedom from belief. The religious see anyone who’s not religious as a wounded fish to a shark sniffing blood. I’m an agnostic atheist myself and not one bit of it is unpleasant. The difference between a believer and an agnostic is humility. An agnostic will admit they do not know, a believer wouldn’t. I understand the discomfort of not knowing (which is why many turn to religion to gain comfort), but if you allow yourself to sink into absolute not knowingness, it’s very freeing. The last thing you want to be is a bigoted absolutist who looks down on everyone else who doesn’t agree with their religious view.

Fact of the matter is that there’s no evidence of a god. Don’t let anyone move the goalposts and redefine what evidence is for you. If there is one, we will find out. Until then, there’s no reason to live acting out of a fear of a hell. Sleazy salesmen use the exact same tactic to get you to buy something. Realize deeply that the only reason people choose to believe in a god is due to an infantile mindset of refusing to grow up.

I didn’t choose to be agnostic-atheists either but you know what solidified it? Reading the Bible. There’s far too many contradictions and nonsense that you have to rationalize to yourself in order to accept the Bible.
yes, there are what appears as contradictions, however these 'contradictions' only loom large for those who do not understand the thinking of ancient cultures of which the Hebrew people are one.

If you are interested perhaps you could share some things you find trip you up (contradictions) I would be interested in hearing them as well as contributing as best I know?
 

Romanov2488

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yes, there are what appears as contradictions, however these 'contradictions' only loom large for those who do not understand the thinking of ancient cultures of which the Hebrew people are one.

If you are interested perhaps you could share some things you find trip you up (contradictions) I would be interested in hearing them as well as contributing as best I know?
They don’t appear to be contradictions, they -are- contradictions. Here’s 50,000 of them: https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHo...000-Errors-and-Biblical-contradictions-190303

I’m viciously opposed to all religion. The only true religion is no religion, pure freedom. All of these concocted beliefs fighting with one another, no wonder religion is very divisive. Religion exists because people need an explanation to soothe their fear of death. No one was born believing in anything, all beliefs have been imported and taught. I understand the inclination towards believing in a superior being due to feeling small relative to the entire universe but I’m here to say that you ARE the universe.

Without YOU, without you consciousness, nothing can be known. Perhaps at best people such as Jesus and Mohammed and the Buddha all realized this but people have perverted their teachings.
 

quietthinker

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They don’t appear to be contradictions, they -are- contradictions. Here’s 50,000 of them: https://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHo...000-Errors-and-Biblical-contradictions-190303

I’m viciously opposed to all religion. The only true religion is no religion, pure freedom. All of these concocted beliefs fighting with one another, no wonder religion is very divisive. Religion exists because people need an explanation to soothe their fear of death. No one was born believing in anything, all beliefs have been imported and taught. I understand the inclination towards believing in a superior being due to feeling small relative to the entire universe but I’m here to say that you ARE the universe.

Without YOU, without you consciousness, nothing can be known. Perhaps at best people such as Jesus and Mohammed and the Buddha all realized this but people have perverted their teachings.
Perhaps you could submit/give your definition of religion?......and rather than passing me off to some website, you might be interested in sharing what aspect or matter looms large for you as contradiction?

On the other hand, if you are only interested in joining a movement ie, point of view which is intent on running Biblical information into the ground with tenuous presentations rather than exploring the things which you consider as contradictions, I s'pose you've made your choice.
 
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Romanov2488

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Perhaps you could submit/give your definition of religion?......and rather than passing me off to some website, you might be interested in sharing what aspect or matter looms large for you as contradiction?

On the other hand, if you are only interested in joining a movement ie, point of view which is intent on running Biblical information into the ground with tenuous presentations rather than exploring the things which you consider as contradictions, I s'pose you've made your choice.
Religion is a sickness and a cancer. It’s a way for the fragile ego to give itself hope of surviving into an afterlife of some sort to cope with its impending annihilation. As for direct examples of a contradiction, here’s one:

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

Also, it’s not just contradictions in the Bible, but what the Bible promotes. For example, the Bible promotes homophobia by calling homosexuality a sin and an abomination. It’s also mysoginistic.

AC82CA9F-6C01-45D4-88C8-739DBF4D1C97.jpeg

For Christians to sit back and say they love gay people, while at the same time looking down on them as going to hell so long as they act out/are homosexual, is absolutely disgusting and pure bigotry. The Bible along with the fundamentalists don’t know how to keep their noses out of other people’s bedroom lives. If they had full political power, they would steamroll LGBT and the like. Let’s be real.

“Christian love” is really hate turned inside out. It’s like saying, “I love you for the idiot you are.” Telling someone, “I hope you find God one day, I pity you for being so lost” is condescending and arrogant. They then wonder why they’re on the decline. Maybe once they stop hating LGBT and everyone else whose not Christian and I mean really stop hating by standing up against something like the Bible which promotes such bigotry, then perhaps they will stop complaining about how persecuted they are.

Of course, Christians tend to see me as the one who’s hateful because what better way to do it than to shift blame from themselves? Fact of the matter is it’s 2023 and the majority of people support abortion and gay marriage, and it’s only going to become more prominent. At this point it’s time for the Christians to get with the program or risk being castigated by society. Modern society’s patience is wearing thin and has no room to tolerate their intolerance.

They would make the U.S. a theocracy if they could. Back to the ages of handmaids and ramming the Bible down the throats of non-believers we go. Don’t forget all the imperialism and colonialism that took place in the name of Christianity either.
 
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thelord's_pearl

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For Christians to sit back and say they love gay people, while at the same time looking down on them as going to hell so long as they act out/are homosexual, is absolutely disgusting and pure bigotry. The Bible along with the fundamentalists don’t know how to keep their noses out of other people’s bedroom lives. If they had full political power, they would steamroll LGBT and the like. Let’s be real.
So you're saying that homosexual activity sounds right? What they do in the bedroom?! The anatomy isn't right.. We love everyone but we will not say that homosexual activity is right. it's warped, it's not right. And being LGBTQ is right? changing your gender is right? it's a warped action, it's not the right thing to do.
 
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quietthinker

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Religion is a sickness and a cancer. It’s a way for the fragile ego to give itself hope of surviving into an afterlife of some sort to cope with its impending annihilation. As for direct examples of a contradiction, here’s one:

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

Also, it’s not just contradictions in the Bible, but what the Bible promotes. For example, the Bible promotes homophobia by calling homosexuality a sin and an abomination. It’s also mysoginistic.

View attachment 27682

For Christians to sit back and say they love gay people, while at the same time looking down on them as going to hell so long as they act out/are homosexual, is absolutely disgusting and pure bigotry. The Bible along with the fundamentalists don’t know how to keep their noses out of other people’s bedroom lives. If they had full political power, they would steamroll LGBT and the like. Let’s be real.

“Christian love” is really hate turned inside out. It’s like saying, “I love you for the idiot you are.” Telling someone, “I hope you find God one day, I pity you for being so lost” is condescending and arrogant. They then wonder why they’re on the decline. Maybe once they stop hating LGBT and everyone else whose not Christian and I mean really stop hating by standing up against something like the Bible which promotes such bigotry, then perhaps they will stop complaining about how persecuted they are.

Of course, Christians tend to see me as the one who’s hateful because what better way to do it than to shift blame from themselves? Fact of the matter is it’s 2023 and the majority of people support abortion and gay marriage, and it’s only going to become more prominent. At this point it’s time for the Christians to get with the program or risk being castigated by society. Modern society’s patience is wearing thin and has no room to tolerate their intolerance.

They would make the U.S. a theocracy if they could. Back to the ages of handmaids we go.
let's deal with one issue at a time.....just for clarity.

Let's look at the 'contradiction' you brought up.....seeing God face to face.
When you speak to someone on the telephone do you not or could you not use the expression 'face to face' in conversation? ....in other words, what you're saying is you had direct communication with them....it didn't mean you literally saw their face.

When you tell someone you're having a conversation with to wake up.....does that mean they are literally asleep? of course not! Understanding idioms and how language is used is helpful and useful.
 

Romanov2488

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let's deal with one issue at a time.....just for clarity.

Let's look at the 'contradiction' you brought up.....seeing God face to face.
When you speak to someone on the telephone do you not or could you not use the expression 'face to face' in conversation? ....in other words, what you're saying is you had direct communication with them....it didn't mean you literally saw their face.

When you tell someone you're having a conversation with to wake up.....does that mean they are literally asleep? of course not! Understanding idioms and how language is used is helpful and useful.
Honestly there’s a thousand ways to rationalize contradictions and interpret the Bible. None of it distracts from the fact that the Bible is mysoginistic and homophobic by nature.

However, rather than arguing semantics, I want to focus on what is really cut and dry for clarity’s sake. What do you make of this:DF1F286C-C6EC-4389-8182-13E2AC6C8130.jpeg

And why shouldn’t a sign also be put up saying something like “Christianity is an abomination to our country!”?

How would you explain this to me in a way where it’s a little less homophobic?
66469985-4401-4736-8411-EE1A1F608350.jpeg
 

quietthinker

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@Romanov2488 ....and I would like to add, why conflate 'christians' with Jesus? What if the majority are poor representatives? What if many have created a 'Jesus' quiet different to the resurrected one?
 
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quietthinker

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Honestly there’s a thousand ways to rationalize contradictions and interpret the Bible. None of it distracts from the fact that the Bible is mysoginistic and homophobic by nature.

However, rather than arguing semantics, I want to focus on what is really cut and dry for clarity’s sake. What do you make of this:View attachment 27683

And why shouldn’t a sign also be put up saying something like “Christianity is an abomination to our country!”?

How would you explain this to me in a way where it’s a little less homophobic?
View attachment 27684
It's like this Romanov2488, If your available energy is bent on bashing something you don't understand then it is pointless having a conversation, however if you are open to an explanation which changes the perspective it is then possible to learn and grow?
 

Romanov2488

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It's like this Romanov2488, If your available energy is bent on bashing something you don't understand then it is pointless having a conversation, however if you are open to an explanation which changes the perspective it is then possible to learn and grow?
Then please do explain how I can better understand the Bible’s homophobia. You’re not suggesting I have to be more open to the homophobia which it promotes for my own understanding do you?

Imagine if Hitler came out saying, “You will never understand me so long as you’re bent on bashing me.”
 

quietthinker

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@Romanov2488 ..... A fool has no delight in understanding but only in expressing his own opinion. Proverbs 18:2
You might consider if there is any truth in the above quote and whether it applies to you or not?
 

Romanov2488

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@Romanov2488 ..... A fool has no delight in understanding but only in expressing his own opinion. Proverbs 18:2
You might consider if there is any truth in the above quote and whether it applies to you or not?
I’m asking you to justify the homophobic verse Leviticus 18:22 and you’re going in circles around it. Probably because it cannot be justified.
 

quietthinker

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Then please do explain how I can better understand the Bible’s homophobia. You’re not suggesting I have to be more open to the homophobia which it promotes for my own understanding do you?

Imagine if Hitler came out saying, “You will never understand me so long as you’re bent on bashing me.”
People have homophobia, not the scriptures. People have all sorts of unjustified prejudices for their own reasons.....and mostly they are not aware of it.

One needs to establish what is dysfunctional before one can draw an accurate conclusion, otherwise we muddle everything up, like for example, most agree that killing another person is not a good thing yet the same people are willing to go to war and kill other mothers sons. How can that be?.....it's because they don't understand what spiritual, emotional, relational and physical health looks like, so they are caught in what is known as cognitive dissonance, ie holding contradictory ideas simultaneously.

To sort this mess out firstly requires the willingness to understand. Without it all the thrashing becomes a pointless exercise. Do you understand this?
 

Romanov2488

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People have homophobia, not the scriptures. People have all sorts of unjustified prejudices for their own reasons.....and mostly they are not aware of it.

One needs to establish what is dysfunctional before one can draw an accurate conclusion, otherwise we muddle everything up, like for example, most agree that killing another person is not a good thing yet the same people are willing to go to war and kill other mothers sons. How can that be?.....it's because they don't understand what spiritual, emotional, relational and physical health looks like, so they are caught in what is known as cognitive dissonance, ie holding contradictory ideas simultaneously.

To sort this mess out firstly requires the willingness to understand. Without it all the thrashing becomes a pointless exercise. Do you understand this?

Ok why isn’t this scripture homophobic then? “Because it just isn’t” isn’t a legitimate answer.
57E1B9AA-2AC1-4017-9AB4-3D3E4D3214DD.jpeg