"Faith alone" IS scriptural, "You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." James 2:24. You have to work overtime to miss the point there.
I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Believers do not miss the point here in James 2:24 but works-salvationists do. You need to interpret this verse in context. James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9)
The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 in regard to faith alone is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however, is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)
It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
Taken
Well-Known Member
Point is what any person DOES IS Works.
One Works…Specific will gain a person “Salvation” From Christ….at a specific Time.
One Works…Specific will gain a person “Salvation” From God…at a Specific Time.
Other Works…will gain each Person “Rewards.”
All works are Not the Same.
“Salvation and Rewards” are not the same things.
Christs Salvation AND Gods Salvation is Not “given” to the Same Individuals, nor For the Same Reasons.
David Lamb
Active Member
Sorry, but I am puzzled. You seem to say that Christ's salvation is different from God (the Father's) salvation. How are they different, in your view?
Taken
Well-Known Member
First… Salvation IS an Offering From the Lord God.
An Offering… Must be Willingly TAKEN by the one Being Offered.
Just as Adam and Eve were Offered to Eat from the Tree of Life…They did Not Choose or Willingly TAKE from that Tree.
The Lord Gods Offering of Salvation…
IS: an Offering With Specific “conditions”.
* The Offering “MUST” be “AGREED” to be Received BY the individual Person….
At any Time the persons BODY’s Life (BLOOD) IS ALIVE”.
(In other words a dead body (void) of its life can not Agree to Accept The Lord Gods Offering of Salvation.)
And “WHEN” the Offering of Salvation “IS” Actually “Given”… IS immediately “following” The Body’s Death… ( again according to The Lord Gods Conditions (order and way).
Christ the Lords Offering…
Condition…
* IS having Heartful Belief in one’s Heart, IN Belief THAT Jesus IS the Christ.
* IS calling on the Lords Name AND “Confessing” THAT Heartful Belief.
* IS willingly giving “their body” to be Crucified WITH Jesus’ Body…(acceptable Bodily death fulfillment).
* IS thereafter their Willingly Accepting…
Gods Spirit IN Them…Accepting Their Salvation (saved soul) AND Quickening (born again spirit) AND patience for their crucified body to be Glorified and risen up.
* Is they occupy Jesus’ Risen Body ( called IN Christ)…unto the day their own body is risen “glorified”… by, through, of Christ Jesus …at the Time, Day, Hour…Christ the Lord Claims/ Redeems / Raises up their glorified bodys unto Him. ( called Rapture).
*…They…shall return to Earth With Christ The Lord Jesus…as Saintly Servants to King Jesus during His 1,000 year reign.
They…who Believe in their heart, IN God, IN Gods Word (Jesus)… but Do not believe Jesus IS the Christ…
… shall …(after their natural bodily death)…
Be soul saved…
Their saved soul departed its dead body, their soul risen to heaven…
Their dead body’s glorified, raised, on the day of Gods First Resurrection.
Some men ARE saved now, occupying Christ Jesus’ Risen body.
Some men shall Accept Christs Offering… before the Tribulations begin.
Some men will Accept Gods Offering , now and during the Trib.
Some men today, tomorrow, up to the Trib., during the Trib…Will never Believe, Never meet the conditions to receive Salvation…. And ultimately become bodily dead, separated, judged worthy of Damnination, all life departed from them and their vessels lifeless body and soul ) destroyed and remembered no more.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Faith iS required for salvation.
Works of belief in God, in Jesus is Christ, in Crucifixion with Jesus… receive Christ Jesus’ Salvation, Before Physical bodily death.
Works of belief in God, In Jesus, at time of physical death….receive Gods Salvation, After physical death…
(Will broadly apply to God fulfilling His Promise To Save His People ISRAEL…(occurs broadly during the Trib… after the seals judgement and during the Trumps judgements).
Works of kindness, charity, preaching Gods Word, glorifying the Lord God.. etc. are Rewards men shall receive.
(Those are called Treasures….and suspect they refer to “crowns”. )
God bless you,
Glory to God,
Taken
Lets go slowly...please cite where I ever said faith was not required for salvation. I am begging you to read what I actually wrote and not what you think I wrote. What word have I consistently used with regards to faith. If it's this much of a struggle for you to understand what I'm writing how am I supposed to think you understand any better what was written 2000 years ago? So please copy and paste my swords where I said faith was not ready or salvation.
Taken
Well-Known Member
The first line suggested otherwise as I have never said anything to the contrary so I'm not sure why it was there.
Taken
Well-Known Member
David Lamb
Active Member
Thanks for explaining. I don't agree that there are two separate salvations, one granted by the Father, the other by the Son, but at least I know what you mean now. Thanks again.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Catholicism=2Thess 2:3--as do all protestant branches. They fixed little because they only had Catholicism translating ( NT) to use when they translated.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Catholicism created the trinity, it does not exist-1Cor 8:6--In 381 ce=recorded history fact, Catholicism at the council of Constantinople added the holy spirit to a godhead for the very first time. No trinity was served prior by Christians nor ever by the Israelites.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Is that the story you are running with?
It's very biblical so the catholics had nothing to do with God being a 3 part being.
Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?
Let's see ya explain that away!
Hiddenthings
Member
It's probably best not to promote debates over council creeds, Big Boy. Doing so might come across as hypocrisy, especially if your arguments don’t hold up under closer scrutiny. From what I’ve heard, those who hold to the 3-in-1 view can be quick to escalate disagreements to admins when challenged.
Is that the story you are running with?
It's very biblical so the catholics had nothing to do with God being a 3 part being.
Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?
Let's see ya explain that away!
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David Lamb
Active Member
Catholicism did not create the Trinity. It is there in the bible. For instance, in John's gospel we read:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)
In case we don't understand that by "the Word," John is referring to Jesus Christ, he writes a few verses later:
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)
The Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of God:
“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.” (Mt 3:16 NKJV)
As I and others say quite often, the actual word "Trinity" is not found in the bible, but the belief that God exists as Father, Son and Holy Spirit is certainly there.
Hiddenthings
Member
This entire post is presumptuous at best.
How can Trinitarianism be considered the original doctrine taught by the apostles, when Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would "guide them into all truth" (John 16:13)? The doctrine bears little resemblance to the preaching found in the book of Acts or to the doctrinal content of the apostolic letters. It's notably absent from the earliest post-biblical Christian writings, such as the Didache, and from the works of first-century figures like Papias and Polycarp. Far from being a natural conclusion of Scripture, the Trinity appears inconsistent with the plain teaching of the Bible, challenges reason, and lacks support from the earliest historical records of the faith.
I would argue they don't have the gospel......what they have and are perpetuating unfortunately is actually a false gospel and a false spirit.
To belong to Christ one must be born of His Spirit and have received His Spirit. Many people can have a mental belief in Jesus but without His Spirit and being born of Him as it were, it does not avail for eternal life. Jesus said, "Ye MUST be born again." The old covenant Jews had a mental belief in God....they only knew OF Him, but didn't know Him personally face to face and still needed to receive Christ to be saved, to inherit eternal life....it was even to them first that the gospel was preached, because they needed it the same as lost Gentiles. Catholicism is almost an exact replica of old covenant priesthood temple worship....along with all the similar religious trappings, it's a religion of whitewash the outside of the cup but inside are dead men's bones.
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