I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity

[Reggie Belafonte]

If it's not Catholic it's not Christianity in fact !

Talking about the RCC, most people do not have a clue regarding such.
Not all in the RCC are of the same Order !

The C of E is a Catholic Church in fact ! They say so in fact ! and within is of that regarding High and Low Church denominations.

The Lutheran Church is Chatholic Church as well, they say so !

Now if a Church says it's not Catholic ! that means they are a bastard Church in fact ! for they must not believe that Jesus is the Christ Jesus in fact ! for if they did know Christ Jesus then one would be set that Christ Jesus is for all of the People in the world ! Not just limited to one part of it !

But all Churches have been bastardised in the last 20 years to become Socialist denominations that will not stand up for Christ Jesus as their Lord and Saviour first and foremost in their lives in fact ! They seek to swallow Governmets agenders. Not God in fact !

The RCC under Pope Frances suffered a godless People in fact, who would not even say the words Jesus Christ, for fear of offending Islamic and Jewish hatred of Jesus ! So this moron Pope rejected Jesus in fact and would only say the words, if their was no other way of doing so !

Pope Frances was a politicaly Correct Pope ! That was the god he served !

Does anyone truly understand what Political Correctness truly is all about !

Well I will kick it off with, That Hitler and his Socialist Party were all founded on Political Correctness in fact !
Same with all Communist Nations are founded on Political Correctness in fact ! and that's how they come to own you all in fact and you have to serve that god god's or else you become an enemy of the State in fact !
You are not you as a Person in fact, but only just become only a number to the Government in fact !

Fact is without Political Correctness Hitler and Stalin would never of came about in fact, because they could not of had the power to dominate over everyone in fact !

So we see the Churches nowadays fully swallowing Political Correctness in fact and peddling such nowaday !
Such an intent is not about strengthening one to deal with this world but to become just full of delusions and deceptions in fact ! like a Whore ! They are about Mob rule ! but No it's not about the Mob at all, it's about one in ones self who is Virtue and full of Grace !
Stephen was killed by the Mob ! for telling the facts and truth ! but the Mob were to gutless to handle the Truth in fact !
Where is their Virtue in a Mob ? Never !
When hear dupes nowadays always boast saying, My Mob ! our Mob ! the bloke is a total jerk boasting of a so called race power play at it's healm ! Now who is pulling the strings in all that ego driven ignorance ? that's what comes to mind and is it worthy of God or just another display of ignorance on their part and of others who give such power. another display in worshiping vanity !

What do we head from the Churches on such matters nowadays, Nothing ! for they would fear to comment on such greatly in fact ! for they clearly lack Virtue and Grace, for their foundations are not abiding in Christ Jesus in fact ! that's not their Power house is it ! No it's vanity of themselves they seek ! just like the Jews, Islam, and any religious dupe or Carnal simplton walks about in vane Lost empty babblings that are self serving idolitry !

 

[David Lamb]

Yes, Bible truth may seem strange to those who don’t possess it. But you do realize the Kingdom is of Heaven—not in Heaven, right? Its origin is from Heaven, but it’s intended to be established on earth.

I find it a little amusing to watch those who hold this false belief try and prove it. It's a terrible teaching. You are what I call a fully-fledged traditional Christian. You have all the notions one would expect from orthodox Christianity.

I see, so you accept that I hold traditional Christian beliefs, and orthodox (lower case o!) Christianity. So do (I imagine) the majority here. I can only go by the posts I read here, but it certainly seems as though many do believe in the full deity and humanity of Christ.

 

[nedsk]

Not I - failed year 10 English twice! You don't need credentials to come out of something which is false...no brainer!

You're proof of that and sent to heresy

 

[Hiddenthings]

I see, so you accept that I hold traditional Christian beliefs, and orthodox (lower case o!) Christianity. So do (I imagine) the majority here. I can only go by the posts I read here, but it certainly seems as though many do believe in the full deity and humanity of Christ.

Have you been surprised at how difficult it’s been to prove some of those commonly held beliefs?

 

[David Lamb]

Have you been surprised at how difficult it’s been to prove some of those commonly held beliefs?

I cannot prove them to someone such as yourself who seems determined not to believe them.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I cannot prove them to someone such as yourself who seems determined not to believe them.

You cannot prove to yourself as you don't have the evidence in the Scriptures to support. You are going around in circles David.

Show me your two natures in one man verse and lets be done with your nonsense!

 

[David Lamb]

You cannot prove to yourself as you don't have the evidence in the Scriptures to support. You are going around in circles David.

Show me you two natures in one verse and lets be done with your nonsense!

Why does it have to be in one verse? Chapters and verses were only added to our bibles hundreds of years after God gave His word. It is not "my nonsense" to say that Jesus is fully God and fully man. It's a basic Christian belief. I can give bible reference that say that Jesus is fully God, and bible references that say He is fully Man. For the first:

“For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Col 2:9 NKJV)

For the second:

“For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,” (Ro 8:3 NKJV)

 

[Hiddenthings]

Why does it have to be in one verse?

Because if you cannot provide one verse then you can be assured your belief is false.

Chapters and verses were only added to our bibles hundreds of years after God gave His word. It is not "my nonsense" to say that Jesus is fully God and fully man.

I've asked you many times to show evidence and even now you are prolonging the inevitable.

It's a basic Christian belief.

Correct and one without a scrap of evidence - even Theologians openly acknowledge this but you still pretend somehow its Bible teaching.

I can give bible reference that say that Jesus is fully God, and bible references that say He is fully Man. For the first:

“For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Col 2:9 NKJV)

For the second:

“For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,” (Ro 8:3 NKJV)

The first reference is speaking about the Glorified Christ while the second is referring to Christ sharing in our corrupt nature.

Romans 6:9. "We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him." Romans 6:9 (ESV)

Take the above verse as an example.

How can Christ have two natures if death "had" dominion over his nature?

Why are you unable to show a verse like Romans 8:3 which speaks about your "two nature" theology?

You & I both know why.

Jesus was fully human, died and was granted eternal life by his Father - that is Bible teaching and you know it.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Also @David Lamb I've shown you a number of verses now that prove Christ in his glorified state was granted eternal Life. I'm wondering how long it will take before you openly make that distinction.

 

[David Lamb]

Because if you cannot provide one verse then you can be assured your belief is false.

Does Scripture teach that each truth must be stated within one verse? How can it, when the bible, as originally given was not divided into chapters and verses?

I've asked you many times to show evidence and even now you are prolonging the inevitable.

Correct and one without a scrap of evidence - even Theologians openly acknowledge this but you still pretend somehow its Bible teaching.

Well, there may be some theologians who make such an acknowledgement, but most wouldn't. For exmple, the theologians who formated the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith believed Jesus was fully God and fully Man:

"The Son of God, the second person in the Holy Trinity, being very and eternal God, the brightness of the Father's glory, of one substance and equal with Him who made the world, who upholds and governs all things He has made, did, when the fullness of time was complete, take upon Him man's nature, with all the essential properties and common infirmities of it,9 yet without sin;10 being conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary, the Holy Spirit coming down upon her: and the power of the Most High overshadowing her; and so was made of a woman of the tribe of Judah, of the seed of Abraham and David according to the Scriptures;11 so that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion; which person is very God and very man, yet one Christ, the only mediator between God and man."

The first reference is speaking about the Glorified Christ while the second is referring to Christ sharing in our corrupt nature.

Romans 6:9. "We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him." Romans 6:9 (ESV)

Take the above verse as an example.

How can Christ have two natures if death "had" dominion over his nature?

Of course as fully Man, death had dominion over Him. Once raised from the dead, death no longer had dominion over Him, as it had in His life on earth.

Why are you unable to show a verse like Romans 8:3 which speaks about your "two nature" theology?

You & I both know why.

Jesus was fully human, died and was granted eternal life by his Father - that is Bible teaching and you know it.

Romans 8:3 certainly does speak about the deity and the humanity of Jesus Christ:

“For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,” (Ro 8:3 NKJV)

Yes, Jesus was fully human, but also fully divine. There are bible passage which male it clear that He is eternal. For instance, the opening of John's gospel, and also His own words: "Before Abraham was, I am." Such words would be nonsense if He only came into existence when He was born at Bethlehem.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Jesus was given the Spirit of God without measure (John 3:34) and shared the same mind and purpose as the Father (John 10:30). Yet, he also acknowledged that the Father was greater than he (John 10:29; 14:28).

When we appreciate that Jesus developed the “fullness” of God’s character (through suffering) we will appreciate that we need nothing in addition to that which we are taught in scripture.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Does Scripture teach that each truth must be stated within one verse? How can it, when the bible, as originally given was not divided into chapters and verses?

No, in fact a doctrine needs many verses for it to be validated as true which is why you not being able to provide one should disturb you.

Well, there may be some theologians who make such an acknowledgement, but most wouldn't. For exmple, the theologians who formated the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith believed Jesus was fully God and fully Man:

"The Son of God, the second person in the Holy Trinity, being very and eternal God, the brightness of the Father's glory, of one substance and equal with Him who made the world, who upholds and governs all things He has made, did, when the fullness of time was complete, take upon Him man's nature, with all the essential properties and common infirmities of it,9 yet without sin;10 being conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary, the Holy Spirit coming down upon her: and the power of the Most High overshadowing her; and so was made of a woman of the tribe of Judah, of the seed of Abraham and David according to the Scriptures;11 so that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion; which person is very God and very man, yet one Christ, the only mediator between God and man."

Not one Scripture to support!!!

Of course as fully Man, death had dominion over Him.

This is the first time you have said Jesus was fully man! Maybe an error on your part?

Once raised from the dead, death no longer had dominion over Him, as it had in His life on earth.

Romans 8:3 certainly does speak about the deity and the humanity of Jesus Christ:

“For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,” (Ro 8:3 NKJV)

Yes, Jesus was fully human, but also fully divine.

Ah there it is David! Just slip that in there when Romans 8:3 expressly states Jesus was made in the likeness (sameness) of sinful flesh.

Nothing at all about Jesus possessing divine nature simultaneously in Romans 8.

There are bible passage which male it clear that He is eternal. For instance, the opening of John's gospel, and also His own words: "Before Abraham was, I am." Such words would be nonsense if He only came into existence when He was born at Bethlehem.

How did Abraham look?

John 8:56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

If you don't read your Bible with more care David, you will miss the point he is making!

 

[David Lamb]

No, in fact a doctrine needs many verses for it to be validated as true which is why you not being able to provide one should disturb you.

It doesn't disturb me at all, for the reason that I have given. Verses and chapters are not part of the inspired word of God. They were added to help people find their way around the bible hundreds of years later.

Not one Scripture to support!!!

Sorry, that was my fault, because I neglected to include the Scripture verses which the formulators of the Confession included. Here they are:

John 1:14; Gal. 4;4
Rom. 8:3; Heb. 2:14,16–17, 4:15
Matt. 1:22–23
Luke 1:27,31,35; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 2:5

This is the first time you have said Jesus was fully man! Maybe an error on your part?

I don't think so. You may be correct, but I am sure I have mentioned in several posts that Jesus is both fully God and fully Man. In fact, just going back one page on this thread, in Post 545, I wrote: "He was also fully man. He cried, He ate and drank, He was tempted, He suffered, and so on."

Ah there it is David! Just slip that in there when Romans 8:3 expressly states Jesus was made in the likeness (sameness) of sinful flesh.

Nothing at all about Jesus possessing divine nature simultaneously in Romans 8.

But there is. It says that God sent His own Son. I have the same nature as my father. Jesus has the same nature as His Father. His Father sent Him in the likeness of sinful flesh.

How did Abraham look?

John 8:56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

If you don't read your Bible with more care David, you will miss the point he is making!

The translation I use, the New King James Version, says:

““Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”” (Joh 8:56 NKJV)

As to how Abraham saw, I agree with John Gill, who wrote in his commentary on that verse: "he saw it with an eye of faith, he saw it in the promise, that in his seed all the nations of the earth should be blessed."

 

[nedsk]

You cannot prove to yourself as you don't have the evidence in the Scriptures to support. You are going around in circles David.

Show me your two natures in one man verse and lets be done with your nonsense!

It's almost as it some Christians just stop using their brains after the are "saved".

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If it's not Catholic it's not Christianity in fact !

That's a good one!

Too bad Jesus and His Apostles never got that memo seeing they did not teach catholicism

The sad thing is NO religious organization, catholic or otherwise is incapable to leading anyone to Heaven - especially the catholics!

It's almost as it some Christians just stop using their brains after the are "saved".

The catholics certainly do, but then again catholics aren't following the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ so they can't really be called Christians and they never got born again seeing they don't following the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ

They are basically a social club that falsely claims to be Christians, nothing more

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

That's a good one!

Too bad Jesus and His Apostles never got that memo seeing they did not teach catholicism

The sad thing is NO religious organization, catholic or otherwise is incapable to leading anyone to Heaven - especially the catholics!






The catholics certainly do, but then again catholics aren't following the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ so they can't really be called Christians and they never got born again seeing they don't following the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ

They are basically a social club that falsely claims to be Christians, nothing more

I have seen many of the RC even Priest who were clearly not Catholic in fact, but an abomination blighted curse !

Just because one is under the roof of what is called Roman Catholic ? See that ?
Fact is that the Church of Rome calles it's self Catholic ? get that !

But is the Church of Rome truly Catholic ?

I would same some people are Catholic, just as within the Lutheran and C of E are Catholic ! but not all are in fact ! for if they do not believe Jesus is the Christ They are not Catholic in fact !
Because one must abide in Christ Jesus to be Catholic in fact.

But some within the Churches be it Roman etc etc are not worthy of Christ Jesus at all, but are Anti-Christ in fact, just like Pope Frances prove himself to be in fact !
Just as they who lead the C of E and Luthren Church etc etc have proven to be on a Carnal path. For They are Idolising Socialism in fact !

 

[Hiddenthings]

It doesn't disturb me at all, for the reason that I have given.

It should

Verses and chapters are not part of the inspired word of God. They were added to help people find their way around the bible hundreds of years later.


Sorry, that was my fault, because I neglected to include the Scripture verses which the formulators of the Confession included. Here they are:

John 1:14; Gal. 4;4
Rom. 8:3; Heb. 2:14,16–17, 4:15
Matt. 1:22–23
Luke 1:27,31,35; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 2:5

But those verses don't support or teach those beliefs at all.

I mean you quoted 1 Tim 2:5 which teaches the exact opposite of your statement of beliefes.

1 Timothy 2:5“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

The irony, David, is that the verse you need to support your doctrine doesn’t actually exist in the Bible. So, you're left relying on verses like this one, yet still miss the point, despite the Apostles' clear teaching.

God is not a man!

I don't think so. You may be correct, but I am sure I have mentioned in several posts that Jesus is both fully God and fully Man. In fact, just going back one page on this thread, in Post 545, I wrote: "He was also fully man. He cried, He ate and drank, He was tempted, He suffered, and so on."

But there is. It says that God sent His own Son. I have the same nature as my father. Jesus has the same nature as His Father. His Father sent Him in the likeness of sinful flesh.

The translation I use, the New King James Version, says:

““Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”” (Joh 8:56 NKJV)

As to how Abraham saw, I agree with John Gill, who wrote in his commentary on that verse: "he saw it with an eye of faith, he saw it in the promise, that in his seed all the nations of the earth should be blessed."

The red text is the first truth you have written in all our discussions.

So now answer the question - How was Jesus even before Abraham? Think David! Jesus is getting you to use your smarts!

Is the context pre-eminence? or pre-existence

I'm sure you will work it out eventually....

 

[Hiddenthings]

Christ’s reference to Abraham @David Lamb affirms his pre-eminence in God’s purpose, not his pre-existence. The Jews had claimed Abraham as their father (John 8:39), so Jesus responds by asserting his superior role in God's plan: “Before Abraham was, I am.” He did not say, “Before Abraham was, I was,” as is often misread. Yet, like many today, the Jews misunderstood his meaning. Jesus was not claiming to be older in years than Abraham. This is clarified by his earlier statement: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad” (John 8:56). Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached (Galatians 3:8), saw Christ’s day by faith as you correctly interpreted. Jesus was ‘foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times’ (1 Peter 1:20). He existed in God’s purpose, not in literal form. In the same way, he is described as the ‘Lamb slain from the foundation of the world’ (Revelation 13:8), though his actual death took place under Pilate, at a specific point in time.

The real issue lies in how you approach the Word of God, along with the non-biblical ideas you impose on the text. As a result, you're unable to fully grasp the true knowledge of Christ as he is revealed in Scripture.

It feels as though you filter everything through a lens just as you have shown with 1 Tim 2:15 you also do with John 8.

 

[David Lamb]

It should

But those verses don't support or teach those beliefs at all.

I mean you quoted 1 Tim 2:5 which teaches the exact opposite of your statement of beliefes.

1 Timothy 2:5“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

The irony, David, is that the verse you need to support your doctrine doesn’t actually exist in the Bible. So, you're left relying on verses like this one, yet still miss the point, despite the Apostles' clear teaching.

God is not a man!


The red text is the first truth you have written in all our discussions.

So now answer the question - How was Jesus even before Abraham? Think David! Jesus is getting you to use your smarts!

Is the context pre-eminence? or pre-existence

I'm sure you will work it out eventually....

When we take the words of John 1 about Jesus Christ together with what Jesus said ("Before Abraham was, I am,") what other conclusion can there be than that Jesus Christ is eternal? The John 1 verses I mean are these:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

Verse 14 makes clear that the Word is Jesus Christ. The Word was in the beginning. Therefore Jesus Christ existed in the beginning.

As for your notion that Jesus, in saying what He did about Himself and Abraham, was only saying that He was pre-eminent when compared to Abraham, that doesn't fit the context of those words at all:

“56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”” (Joh 8:56-58 NKJV)

His hearers had just been making reference to his age ("You are not yet 50 years old"). Why would He reply to say that He was more eminent than Abraham?