I love Jesus but..

[ATP]

I hate church. Anyone what

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Apostasy abounds in churches and so when red tape and all other sweeping under the rug tactics are being practised to avoid reproving the apostasies by the scripture as kept in the KJV, what choice do you have when you love Jesus when He teaches us to withdraw? And even I need His help to do even that as I trust Him to as He is my Good Shepherd & not just my Saviour..

Matthew 10:14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

2 Thessalonians 3;1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.........14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

 

[lforrest]

I grow tired of the spiritual abuse in the church.

But I think of the spiritual battle lines and where it makes since for them to be drawn. The world is lost, so the main battle must be in and around the church.

 

[liafailrock]

All: I think the true church is "going underground". I have a private bible study with other women on Thursdays. Everyone there, save one, basically left the organized church. I also like to keep the commandments. I realize it DOES NOT SAVE anyone, but if one is saved the tendency will be to want to do what God commands. So, I keep weekly Sabbath as well. My jury is still out on some so-called "Sabbath keeping churches" as they, too, have become institutionalized. The MOST important thing is that we love others. Be they brothers or not, we are to love. So I have no issue with some churches but I fear they have issue with me as I don't conform easily. I should say, I don't conform to man's traditions over the Word of God, albeit they say they are following the Word. So, I don't fellowship much at this point not because I disagree with them, per se, but because they disagree with me and I don't want to start any trouble.

 

[FHII]

I understand. But I love Church. I found one that goes by the Bible. Don't give up on finding one.

 

[ewq1938]

I hate church. Anyone what

Many churches are scripturally devoid of truth and only "preach" various sterotypical lessons they often downloaded from someone else. It's very hard to find but there are some churches that do more literal bible teaching. You might get more out of bible study groups rather than the typical Sunday church service. I stopped attending those years ago due to lack of real content.

 

[justaname]

The Church is not an event, it is the Body of Christ...Jesus teaches it will be known we are His disciples by our love for each other.

In the book of Hebrews we are exhorted to not forsake assembling with one another...

 

[DPMartin]

I think there is something to be said about, "going underground". The Ministry of Grace did start as a underground effort. It’s my understanding when Chairman Mao vanquished the church from meeting, there were many who walked with the Lord God in the name of Jesus Christ despite the lack of churches. But if you look at Israel and the world around it, it would seem logical that such times are near if not here.

I have run into more and more people on their own and sticking with the Torah as a system of belief. Which is the system of belief God want us to have, and the belief and understanding that it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The Torah works because God built His nation Israel with it. But don’t get hung up on the Sabbath, Jesus contended with the administers thereof often on that issue. Israel was a Sabbath oriented society, the Lord knows we don’t live in one now.

　
If you read in Zechariah there is his vision of chariots with colored horses and the black horse was to go north (that would be from the location of Israel) and the white horses followed. But it was said of the black horse is that it quieted God’s Spirit. So if you fast forward to Rev the black horse holds the scales hence economics as in capitalism. The white horse was to conquer if I remember. So the north of Israel after Apostle John was to conquer and basically control economics. And it has. Don’t hold me to this, I’m no prophesy scholar but it seems to fit.

If you notice if there is no money in it, it disappears do to lack of interest.

I would warn those who depend on others to be close to the Lord God for them, they many find themselves on the outside looking in when the time comes.

 

[ewq1938]

I have run into more and more people on their own and sticking with the Torah as a system of belief. Which is the system of belief God want us to have, and the belief and understanding that it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The Torah works because God built His nation Israel with it. B

The torah is not for Christians other than to learn the history of God's religion. Christianity is God's religion now, Judaism failed and comitted Adultery with false gods. No one should have one foot in Judaism and one in Christianity.

 

[DPMartin]

The torah is not for Christians other than to learn the history of God's religion. Christianity is God's religion now, Judaism failed and comitted Adultery with false gods. No one should have one foot in Judaism and one in Christianity.

Well there ewq1938, it seems apparent you don’t know enough about what Christianity is supposed to be based on which is Jesus Christ, and what He actually did that was satisfactory to the Father which is to fulfill the Torah. Oh and judging by your posting you probably don’t know that the Torah is the law in Jewish terms and any studied Christian knows, that Jesus said He came to fulfill it, not destroy it.

So if Jesus Christ fulfilled the Torah then what is Jesus like? Isn’t it what the Torah describes and requires? And since Christianity is supposed to be based on Jesus Christ, then the Torah is very significant to what a Christian should believe. For example there is no legit interpretation of the law and the prophets but Jesus Christ because He is the fulfillment of the law and prophets according to the will of God. According to men and men’s theologies and views, don’t count in the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[ewq1938]

Well there ewq1938, it seems apparent you don’t know enough about what Christianity is supposed to be based on which is Jesus Christ, and what He actually did that was satisfactory to the Father which is to fulfill the Torah. Oh and judging by your posting you probably don’t know that the Torah is the law in Jewish terms and any studied Christian knows, that Jesus said He came to fulfill it, not destroy it.

Christians are not bound by Jewish law. We have the new covenant law, also called the law of Christ. It includes the moral laws of the Torah but not the ceremonial laws etc.

While Christ didn't come to destroy the law, the law is decayed because it is old.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Yes, the covenant is also the law in case you didn't know that.

Exo 34:26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

The ten commandments are the words of this new covenant equaling the law to the covenant. A covenant is a contract or agreement between two parties and the law is the words of that agreement. One requires things to be done, and the other party must adhere to and obey in order for the agreement to work. And we see in the verses that this new covenant starts with the words of the Ten commandments, the pillar of the law and the covenant. Previous covenants already had their words whether written or verbally spoken but this covenant had specific laws that were new to everyone.




We are to be dead to the law:

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Hebrews 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will, O God.
Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

[whitestone]

O the simplicity that is in Christ!

 

[DPMartin]

Your statements here show lack of wisdom and understanding.

Christians are not bound by Jewish law. We have the new covenant law, also called the law of Christ. It includes the moral laws of the Torah but not the ceremonial laws etc.

While Christ didn't come to destroy the law, the law is decayed because it is old.

I never said they were, did I? That would be an assumption on your part. But if you are in the covenant (agreement) in Christ you are bound to all that is included.

The Faith is the same faith Abraham has, no different, other than what stage in God’s plan the completion of His will be done. That doesn’t require any legal arguments quoting Paul’s writings to the Hebrews. It’s to bad you have reasons to not value the Torah and books like Leviticus. You see ceremonial laws, I see the Lord God of Israel speaking to His people. Hence God the Creator and Judge almost thinking out loud on issues of the men who listen.

 

[ewq1938]

It’s to bad you have reasons to not value the Torah and books like Leviticus.

Never did I say nor imply they don't have value. We are to be dead to the law, but some wish to live by it going against what Christ taught to Paul.

 

[ATP]

Underground Bible studies seem interesting, in people's homes. Food, love, fellowship.

 

[theophilus]

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
(2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV)

When Paul wrote this the New Testament was still in the process of being written so he was speaking about the Old Testament, including the Torah. The ceremonial laws, such as the sacrifices and dietary laws, are no longer in force but we can learn about God by studying them.

 

[mjrhealth]

If you want to know religion , join one
if you want to know the bible, study it
if you want to know Jesus go to Him
if you want to know Gods heart than ask Him

A want is a lack of, if you want Jesus than you dont have Him.

In all His Love

 

[theophilus]

if you want to know the bible, study it
if you want to know Jesus go to Him
if you want to know Gods heart than ask Him

Jesus and God's heart are revealed through the Bible. You must study and obey it if you want to know either of them.

A want is a lack of, if you want Jesus than you dont have Him.

The word want also means desire.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus and God's heart are revealed through the Bible. You must study and obey it if you want to know either of them.


The word want also means desire.

True.


Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

 

[Born_Again]

Well, getting back to the OP, I do think you can find the right church. Of course, doctrine is key. You cant go wrong if the church is aligned properly with the Bible. Of course, I have no problem with "underground" either. Recently our church had a guest pastor. And I was so taken by his conviction and spirituality and love for the Word, I am going to visit his church and might start going there.

Go where the Holy Spirit leads you. Follow Christ and you cant go wrong!

BA