I say to you today, [comma] you will be with Me in Paradise

[marks]

Do you think the all knowing God who foreknew english translations would trip us all up over a comma?

Not only that, but God knew exactly how you would read His Book, what conclusions you'd reach, before He had it written.

Much love!

 

[marks]

fine, but it still needs to be offset with punctuation--there is no pause reading it, and there needs to be, . C'mon, the phrase handkerchiefs and aprons needs to be offset.

I agree with that. When we read it, it should be clear that he brought handkerchiefs and aprons to the sick, rather than sick handkerchiefs to the . . . the what?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Here is how some who believe in what amounts to soul death try to get around it. They use time and God's control of it to say that it seems immediate to us, but we could have been laying in the ground for 100 years.
Thoughts?

We are seated in the heavenlies with Christ . . . we are hid with Christ in God . . . we don't wait to "go to heaven", we are alive in the celestial realm already. When we close these eyes, we open those eyes.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Luke 23:43 - Punctuation

Just because a modern text writer decides where he wants the punctuation and capitalization to be in his interpretation of the original text (as Westcott and Hort did for the text that is used by the NWT and Nestle did in the text used by the NASB, etc.) does not mean that is how the original Bible writer intended the meaning.

We see The Emphasized Bible by Joseph B. Rotherham also punctuating Luke 23:43 to produce the meaning found in the NWT:

"Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise."

And the footnote for Luke 23:43 in Lamsa's translation admits:

"Ancient texts were not punctuated. The comma could come before or after today."

The Concordant Literal New Testament renders it: "43 And Jesus said to him, 'Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.'"

2001 Translation – An American English Bible: 43 And [Jesus] replied, `I tell you this today; you will be with me in Paradise.'

A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W.Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:

"'And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.' The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in... His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, 'with') Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying.... Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as 'Verily I say unto you this day,' etc.; 'I testify unto you this day.' etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxii.43."

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, "I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise."

............................................

An example from the Hebrew Scriptures of the OT in modern Bibles:

(NKJV) Deuteronomy 30:18 "I announce to you today that you shall surely perish"

(NASB) Deuteronomy 30:18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish.

(RSV) Deuteronomy 30:18 "I declare to you this day, that you shall perish"

(GodsWord) Deuteronomy 30:18 "If you do, I tell you today that you will certainly be destroyed"

(MKJV (Green)) Deuteronomy 30:18 "I declare to you today that you shall surely perish"

Punctuation still does not... determine Jesus' intent and meaning in that verse. Other relevant Scripture confirms His meaning, like how early Bible translations have it.

Later so-called Bible scholars that are actually 'revisionist' puppets from the Textual Criticism movement, like Kurt Aland, were questionable as to the Christian faith, and were kept on translation committees purely for their 'technical' talent in Bible languages. That means Aland was actually more apt to make mistakes, not having been led by The Holy Spirit.

In Luke 16, Jesus revealed what happens at death, that our 'spirit' is not dead, but continues on to Paradise, either on one side the gulf or the other. So that's a second witness to what He said in Luke 23:43.

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 is another witness that at death of our flesh, our flesh goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, but our 'spirit' goes back to God Who gave it. And since Jesus showed in Matt.10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul, that also confirms that both our 'spirit' with 'soul', together, go back to God when we die. It means life without the need of a flesh body.

Apostle Paul also confirms this in 2 Corinthians 5, when he taught that if this flesh tabernacle were dissolved, we have ANOTHER HOUSE, not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens. He was pointing to that OTHER body we all have dwelling inside our flesh body, our 'spirit body'. That is what is released from flesh at death of our flesh. That is what Solomon actually revealed in Eccl.12, even revealing about the "silver cord" that apparently keeps our spirit tied to our flesh body while we are alive on earth, and when that silver cord is severed, then our spirit body departs, with our flesh going back to earthly matter.

 

[Starise]

I know what I believe and it's in line with the majority here and with majority Christian thought. Buy I'm talking with this guy right now who will not budge. I've been talking to him in love not arguing. What would you do walk away? The problem is he's taking this to unbelievers.
Do you see this as a small doctrinal issue or a large one?

 

[TonyChanYT]

I know what I believe and it's in line with the majority here and with majority Christian thought. Buy I'm talking with this guy right now who will not budge. I've been talking to him in love not arguing. What would you do walk away? The problem is he's taking this to unbelievers.
Do you see this as a small doctrinal issue or a large one?

What is your position? What is his?

 

[Starise]

My position is that we are with the Lord in soul form at death. His position is soul death until the resurrection.

 

[ScottA]

Luke 23:


Should the comma be placed after the word "today"?

At Biblehub, 31 translations placed the comma before *today*. Only 2 placed it after.

The following is from GotQuestions:

First, we note that every major Bible translation inserts the comma before the word today. Thus, the KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and RSV all agree that Jesus was speaking of the time that the thief would enter paradise. The thief would be in paradise with Jesus on that very same day.

Also, Jesus prefaced His response with the phrase, “I tell you the truth” (“Verily I say unto thee” in the KJV). Many scholars have noticed that Jesus uses this as a prefix phrase when He is about to say something that should be listened to with care. Seventy-six times in the New Testament, Jesus uses the phrase. Interestingly, no one but Jesus ever says it. When the Lord says “I tell you the truth,” He is affirming that what He is about to say is worthy of special attention. It was Jesus’ way of saying, “Listen up! What I’m about to say is very important and should be listened to carefully.” We’re too used to hearing the phrase to appreciate the astonishing authority it expresses and the often solemn nature of the announcement that follows. In every one of the 76 times Christ uses this introductory phrase, He simply says it and then makes a startling statement.

It would be strange indeed if, in this one instance, Jesus departed from His normal way of making His signature statement by adding the word today to it. In every case where this sort of introductory phrase is used, Greek scholars add a punctuation break after the phrase in question and before the rest of the statement. So, the translators have it right. The comma in Luke 23:43 belongs where they put it.

No, moving the comma would not be correct, as it is true, "now is the day of salvation"...making any given day the Lord comes into a person "today." Thus, it is also true that even "we who are alive and remain" in the world are seated "in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

 

[TonyChanYT]

My position is that we are with the Lord in soul form at death. His position is soul death until the resurrection.

Check out What happens to your soul when you die?

 

[Webers_Home]

~
If there is such a thing as soul sleep, I won't know it; here's why:

I've been under anesthesia once for appendicitis, once for a scalp lump, once
for kidney stone, twice for inguinal hernias, once for wisdom teeth, twice for
total knee replacements, once for colonoscopy, twice for endoscopies, and once
for lung cancer.

In none of those procedures was I aware of the passage of time. The very
moment I went under was simultaneous with awakening. So if soul sleep is
like that, I'll be in parasdise as if I went from here to there in less than a
second of time on the clock, i.e. virtually instantaneous. The same can be said for
folks on track for the wrong side of things.
_