I say to you today, [comma] you will be with Me in Paradise

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TonyChanYT

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Luke 23:

43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Should the comma be placed after the word "today"?

At Biblehub, 31 translations placed the comma before *today*. Only 2 placed it after.

The following is from GotQuestions:

First, we note that every major Bible translation inserts the comma before the word today. Thus, the KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and RSV all agree that Jesus was speaking of the time that the thief would enter paradise. The thief would be in paradise with Jesus on that very same day.

Also, Jesus prefaced His response with the phrase, “I tell you the truth” (“Verily I say unto thee” in the KJV). Many scholars have noticed that Jesus uses this as a prefix phrase when He is about to say something that should be listened to with care. Seventy-six times in the New Testament, Jesus uses the phrase. Interestingly, no one but Jesus ever says it. When the Lord says “I tell you the truth,” He is affirming that what He is about to say is worthy of special attention. It was Jesus’ way of saying, “Listen up! What I’m about to say is very important and should be listened to carefully.” We’re too used to hearing the phrase to appreciate the astonishing authority it expresses and the often solemn nature of the announcement that follows. In every one of the 76 times Christ uses this introductory phrase, He simply says it and then makes a startling statement.

It would be strange indeed if, in this one instance, Jesus departed from His normal way of making His signature statement by adding the word today to it. In every case where this sort of introductory phrase is used, Greek scholars add a punctuation break after the phrase in question and before the rest of the statement. So, the translators have it right. The comma in Luke 23:43 belongs where they put it.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Luke 23:


Should the comma be placed after the word "today"?

At Biblehub, 31 translations placed the comma before *today*. Only 2 placed it after.

The following is from GotQuestions:

First, we note that every major Bible translation inserts the comma before the word today. Thus, the KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and RSV all agree that Jesus was speaking of the time that the thief would enter paradise. The thief would be in paradise with Jesus on that very same day.

Also, Jesus prefaced His response with the phrase, “I tell you the truth” (“Verily I say unto thee” in the KJV). Many scholars have noticed that Jesus uses this as a prefix phrase when He is about to say something that should be listened to with care. Seventy-six times in the New Testament, Jesus uses the phrase. Interestingly, no one but Jesus ever says it. When the Lord says “I tell you the truth,” He is affirming that what He is about to say is worthy of special attention. It was Jesus’ way of saying, “Listen up! What I’m about to say is very important and should be listened to carefully.” We’re too used to hearing the phrase to appreciate the astonishing authority it expresses and the often solemn nature of the announcement that follows. In every one of the 76 times Christ uses this introductory phrase, He simply says it and then makes a startling statement.

It would be strange indeed if, in this one instance, Jesus departed from His normal way of making His signature statement by adding the word today to it. In every case where this sort of introductory phrase is used, Greek scholars add a punctuation break after the phrase in question and before the rest of the statement. So, the translators have it right. The comma in Luke 23:43 belongs where they put it.
Simple normal rational grammar tells us that if Jedsus said, " Truly I tell you today" it is a faulty statement and illogical. Given that Jesus created grammar and logic, He would not say something that silly! It is understood He was speaking on that day ,for He was speaking on that day!
 
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Jack

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Luke 23:


Should the comma be placed after the word "today"?

At Biblehub, 31 translations placed the comma before *today*. Only 2 placed it after.

The following is from GotQuestions:

First, we note that every major Bible translation inserts the comma before the word today. Thus, the KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and RSV all agree that Jesus was speaking of the time that the thief would enter paradise. The thief would be in paradise with Jesus on that very same day.

Also, Jesus prefaced His response with the phrase, “I tell you the truth” (“Verily I say unto thee” in the KJV). Many scholars have noticed that Jesus uses this as a prefix phrase when He is about to say something that should be listened to with care. Seventy-six times in the New Testament, Jesus uses the phrase. Interestingly, no one but Jesus ever says it. When the Lord says “I tell you the truth,” He is affirming that what He is about to say is worthy of special attention. It was Jesus’ way of saying, “Listen up! What I’m about to say is very important and should be listened to carefully.” We’re too used to hearing the phrase to appreciate the astonishing authority it expresses and the often solemn nature of the announcement that follows. In every one of the 76 times Christ uses this introductory phrase, He simply says it and then makes a startling statement.

It would be strange indeed if, in this one instance, Jesus departed from His normal way of making His signature statement by adding the word today to it. In every case where this sort of introductory phrase is used, Greek scholars add a punctuation break after the phrase in question and before the rest of the statement. So, the translators have it right. The comma in Luke 23:43 belongs where they put it.
JW?
 

Jack

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Luke 23:43 (DRV)
43 And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:43 (ASV)
43 And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

Luke 23:43 (AMP)
43 And He answered him, Truly I tell you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.

Luke 23:43 (CSBBible)
43
And he said to him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Luke 23:43 (CEB)
43 Jesus replied, "I assure you that today you will be with me in paradise."

Luke 23:43 (CJB)
43 Yeshua said to him, “Yes! I promise that you will be with me today in Gan-‘Eden.”

Luke 23:43 (CEV)
43 Jesus replied, "I promise that today you will be with me in paradise."

Luke 23:43 (Darby)
43 And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:43 (ETRV)
43 Then Jesus said to him, "I promise you, today you will be with me in paradise.♦" (Mt. 27:45-56; Mk. 15:33-41; Jn. 19:28-30)

Luke 23:43 (ESV)
43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Luke 23:43 (GW)
43 Jesus said to him, “I can guarantee this truth: Today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 23:43 (HCSB)
43 And He said to him, “I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise.”

Luke 23:43 (ICB)
43 Then Jesus said to him, "Listen! What I say is true: Today you will be with me in paradise!"

Luke 23:43 (KJV)
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:43 (MLB)
43 Jesus said to him, “I assure you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Luke 23:43 (NET1)
43 And Jesus[101] said to him, “I tell you the truth,[102] today[103] you will be with me in paradise.”[104]

Luke 23:43 (NASB77)
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Luke 23:43 (NASB)
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Luke 23:43 (NCV)
43 Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.“

Luke 23:43 (NIV)
43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Luke 23:43 (NIV2011)
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 23:43 (NJB)
43 He answered him, ‘In truth I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.'

Luke 23:43 (NLT2)
43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 23:43 (NRSV)
43 He replied, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Luke 23:43 (RSV)
43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Luke 23:43 (TLB)
43 And Jesus replied, "Today you will be with me in Paradise. This is a solemn promise."

Luke 23:43 (MSG)
43 He said, "Don't worry, I will. Today you will join me in paradise."

Luke 23:43 (TEV)
43 Jesus said to him, "I promise you that today you will be in Paradise with me."

Luke 23:43 (Webster's Bible)
43 And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, This day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:43 (YLT)
43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'
 
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tigger 2

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Luke 23:43 - Punctuation

Just because a modern text writer decides where he wants the punctuation and capitalization to be in his interpretation of the original text (as Westcott and Hort did for the text that is used by the NWT and Nestle did in the text used by the NASB, etc.) does not mean that is how the original Bible writer intended the meaning.

We see The Emphasized Bible by Joseph B. Rotherham also punctuating Luke 23:43 to produce the meaning found in the NWT:

"Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise."

And the footnote for Luke 23:43 in Lamsa's translation admits:

"Ancient texts were not punctuated. The comma could come before or after today."

The Concordant Literal New Testament renders it: "43 And Jesus said to him, 'Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.'"

2001 Translation An American English Bible: 43 And [Jesus] replied, `I tell you this today; you will be with me in Paradise.'

A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W.Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:

"'And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.' The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in... His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, 'with') Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying.... Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as 'Verily I say unto you this day,' etc.; 'I testify unto you this day.' etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxii.43."

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, "I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise."

............................................

An example from the Hebrew Scriptures of the OT in modern Bibles:

(NKJV) Deuteronomy 30:18 "I announce to you today that you shall surely perish"

(NASB) Deuteronomy 30:18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish.

(RSV) Deuteronomy 30:18 "I declare to you this day, that you shall perish"

(GodsWord) Deuteronomy 30:18 "If you do, I tell you today that you will certainly be destroyed"

(MKJV (Green)) Deuteronomy 30:18 "I declare to you today that you shall surely perish"
 

Ziggy

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Psa 95:7
For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8
Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Heb 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 3:15
While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Luk 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Exhort one another daily, while it is called To day...

So when does tomorrow begin?

hugs
 

TonyChanYT

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Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, "I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise."
Let proposition P1 = The comma should go after *today* in Luke 23:43.
P2 = The comma should go before *today* in Luke 23:43.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.
 

Jim C

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I'd go with the comma after. Christ is declaring that He is making a statement right now.
Saying that the thief would be with Him in paradise today is false, as Christ would not be in paradise on that particular day -- He would be occupying a tomb awaiting resurrection and our Lord does not lie.
 
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Ziggy

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Saying that the thief would be with Him in paradise today is false, as Christ would not be in paradise on that particular day -- He would be occupying a tomb awaiting resurrection and our Lord does not lie.
hmm..
Luk 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

or would he?
Was it just his body that was occupying the tomb?

If Jesus told the thief To day, then if the spirit of Jesus went directly to God the moment he gave up the ghost, then it's possible the thief was with him to day as he said he would be.


Jhn 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

would be interesting to be a fly on the wall inside that tomb... just sayin.

What if Jesus' spirit went directly to the Father and then went down and preached to those in hell, and then returned to his newly risen glorified body?
Although it was still flesh and blood because Thomas stuck his finger in him to prove it, and spirits don't eat.
So...


the first;
Jhn 20:1
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Jhn 20:16
Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Jhn 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jhn 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Jhn 20:20
And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

help me here...
Is this still the same first day that Mary saw Jesus early in the morning, and then again on the same first day that they see Jesus in the evening?

or is it another first day of the week?

it's a calendar thing... I thought the day ended at evening.. so it should be either the 2nd day or another first day of the week.

If it is the same 24 hours. Then from the time Jesus saw Mary until he returned that evening he had made a round trip to heaven and back.. yes? no?


How long is To day?

If Jesus told the thief To day thou shalt be with me in paradise, if it is said.. that we should exhort one another daily, while it is called To day.
How long is To day?

How can it be the same first day of the week when it was evening when Jesus met them in the upper room.

Zec 14:6
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8
And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Jhn 20:20
And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Jhn 20:21
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Jhn 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jhn 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


Zec 14:8
And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Oh I think I struck a nugget..

Zechariah 14:8 and John 20:22-23.


This is that day...

pardon my wandering and rambling.. but it's how I study. And once in awhile I strike gold :D

What an interesting day..
haha


anywho... How long does To day last? If we are to exhort one another daily concerning it?

maybe my pic and shovel aint as dull as I thought they was.. :)

Hugs
 

TonyChanYT

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Yes, they are all in the 'link' 'Confusion' of 'What Is Death'...
Thanks for the references. To save the effort of everyone, this is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:
  1. Give the name of the source.
  2. Provide the link to the source. It is the URL address.
  3. Indent the quoted text.
  4. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
  5. Be concise and to the point.
This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it here :)
 

Rockerduck

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Isn't it semantics now? The thief is in paradise. Remove "today" and Jesus said "You will be with me in Paradise."
 

Starise

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I was recently in a discussion with an atheist and on jumps a Jewish believer who promptly told them that everything we are is in our grey matter, in addition to not believeing in demons or the occult. I at one time leaned toward the the 7th day Adventist position, but have since changed my views based on the scriptures given in posts above.

Without going into the outcome of that, I'll just say it upset me more than I have been in a very long time. My choices were to A. Do nothing. B. Confront him and risk something non Christian in front of an atheist or C. Pray. I initially confronted the guy in a PM and he went ahead and continued his line to this atheist. I then posted publicly, but later deided to take it down. As much as I wanted to change the situation I decided not to meddle and pray about it instead. I am asking you guys to please pray about this.

Apparently Jewish thought does not see a soul as risen to be with the Lord at death, but in 'stasis". I had to vent this somewhere sorry. I so care that this atheist person will begin to see the truth and then this happens.

Some things that initially were confusing to me and I'm sure others on this subject.

- We are risen again after death in new bodies which seems contradictory to a soul with the Lord at death. Another confusing aspect of this is the idea that we ARE souls and don't have souls which is somewhat true, making it seem we are inseperable at death, and YET we have this myriad of scriptures which clearly put our souls with the Lord at death. The final logical outcome of this is we are NOT in the ground at death. Only our bodies are.
 

Starise

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I liked your comparison to computers and software as it's something I work in daily. The soul being the software and the body being the hardware.
In the end I'm not sure how much these ideas will influence a non believing naturalist, but I don't think misrepresentation of the bible is ever a good thing for anyone. The naturalist does not believe we are anything but what you see. When we die we just decay and nothing else happens. The Jewish view lends support to this idea by agreeing we are all exclusively piles of dirt. Walking gut bags.. and our soul is a part of that dirt. When we die, it dies.