I SEE TWO CHURCHES IN ACTS 15

[Doug]

Under the law, works were required,

In the OT Israel was under covenant and had to obey it's statutes
Israel had to keep the law to inherit the earthly kingdom during Christ's earthly ministry when the kingdom was at hand
For eternal life Israel only had to believe in the name of Jeus, that he was their Christ, the Son of God................[John 20:31 KJV] "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."...........this gospel doent have the cross and isnt the same gospel Paul preaches,

 

[Doug]

i suspected this but wasnt sure looks like we just to agree we disagree

I am willing to discuss anytjing with you
I would just wish for you to consider that what I say is supported by scripture or ask me for scripture to validate it

 

[Doug]

Maybe the thousand years in John's Revelation is symbolic, not literal, and the Church IS the Kingdom of God.

Then how can you say that the whole Bible isnt symbolic

 

[Doug]

the twelve were preaching the gospel of the kingdom , to the jews first
later the same preaching of the gospel of the kingdom would be also preached to the gentiles .
Paul was not given ANOTHER gospel of anything . HE was given the v ery same gospel of the very same JESUS and HIS KINGDOM
that he had once persecuted . Lets read the bible for ourselves and not through the lens of other men please .
Peter first was given the message by GOD to go to the gentiles . SAME GOSPEL he preached to them as well .
Goodness men have made a mess of th ings .

The gospel of the kingdom was that the prophetic millennial kingdom in which Christ will reign for a thousand years was not the gospel Paul preached

 

[Doug]

You are no longer arguing about verses. You are arguing that unity in Christ did not exist until Paul, and that everything before him operated under a different church. Scripture does not allow that.

[Acts 2:46 KJV] "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,"
I never intentionally expressed that unity didnt exist in the little flock church formed before the body of Christ
Yes there was a church before the body of Christ

 

[Doug]

Paul never says the body of Christ began with him

Yes he did.........[1 Timothy 1:16 KJV] "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."

 

[Doug]

Before Paul ever preached, Peter stood up and said God made “no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith” ~Acts 15:9. That is body language before Paul explains it. Same faith. Same cleansing. Same people.

Peter was referring to the Gentiles who believed in Acts 10 and wasn't preaching Paul's gospel, he was preaching only to believe on the name of Jesus..............[Acts 10:43 KJV] "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
Its always by faith

 

[Doug]

Before Paul wrote Romans, Peter preached forgiveness through believing in Christ’s name ~Acts 10:43. Before Paul wrote Galatians, the church was already called “the church of God” ~Acts 8:1. Singular. Not churches. Not programs.

OK good you see that the gospel Peter preached was the name of Jesus NOT the cross. The cross was revealed to Paul.
Paul persecuted the church of God which was the little flock believing remnant of Israel NOT the body of Christ
Church of God is a generic term applied to both churches

 

[Doug]

You keep saying the church in Jerusalem was “only Israel,” yet Luke says Gentiles were added in Antioch by the same Lord ~Acts 11:21, and Scripture says the Lord “added to the church daily” ~Acts 2:47. The text never pauses to say, “Now forming a different body.”

[Acts 11:19 KJV] "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only."
[Acts 11:20 KJV] "And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus."
[Acts 11:21 KJV] "And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.".............The Grecians werent Gentiles, they were Jews who were from Greece. Common mistake that I also made in the past.

in Acts 2:47 the Lord added to the existing little flock remnant. A new church wasnt formed in Acts 2

Gentiles could be propylites and be circumcised and be followers with Israel but I dont see Gentiles becoming members of the little flock remnant until Acts 10

 

[Doug]

And this is the key point you keep stepping around:
Paul never treats Jewish believers as belonging to a different organism. He says Gentiles are “fellowheirs, and of the same body” ~Ephesians 3:6. Same body means there was not another one running alongside it.

When Paul talks about Jews he is talking about them in the body of Christ ecept for Romans 9 thru 11. How can you say there werent two churches existing together for a time when Paul met with them in Galatians 2?

 

[bdavidc]

When Paul talks about Jews he is talking about them in the body of Christ ecept for Romans 9 thru 11. How can you say there werent two churches existing together for a time when Paul met with them in Galatians 2?

Galatians 2 does not help your case. It destroys it. Galatians 2 is not two churches. It is one gospel being defended against corruption. Paul says the issue was that false brethren were trying to bring believers into bondage ~Galatians 2:4. He does not say there were two bodies. He says there was pressure to impose law on Gentile believers inside the same body.

The meeting in Galatians 2 was not about parallel churches. It was about recognizing the same grace at work in different missions. Paul says they perceived “the grace that was given unto me” and extended fellowship ~Galatians 2:9. Fellowship is not extended between two separate organisms. It is recognized within the same one.

Different audiences do not equal different churches. Paul says there is “one body” ~Ephesians 4:4. He says Gentiles are “of the same body” ~Ephesians 3:6. He says Christ “hath made both one” ~Ephesians 2:14. You cannot insert a temporary second body without contradicting all three.

Romans 9–11 does not create a second church either. Paul is explaining Israel’s unbelief and future mercy, not redefining the body of Christ. Even there, salvation is still by faith in Christ alone, and unbelieving Jews are cut off while believing Gentiles are grafted in ~Romans 11:20. One olive tree. Not two.

Galatians 2 proves unity, not division. Same gospel. Same grace. Same body. What you are calling “two churches” is Scripture talking about one body dealing with real tensions as Jew and Gentile believers learned to walk together in Christ.

 

[Doug]

BEAUITFUL - Thank You

@Doug and @GRACE ambassador

We are here for you with the Love of Christ and the Simplicity that is in Christ, so that we may be One Body in One Truth.

I dont remember, did I ever ask you to tell me the gospel you believe?
If so please tell me again I dont remember

 

[Doug]

@bdavidc and @amigo de christo and @LoveYeshua

Please Bless @Doug and @GRACE ambassador by sharing your Gifting of explanation on how GOD established the Cross for JESUS to bear for our sins, BeforeHand, in the Torah/Moses.
Please show them where JESUS confirmed this passage of Moses/Torah as the Way to Salvation.

Numbers 21:4-9
Then they journeyed from Mount Hor by the Way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the soul of the people became very discouraged on the way. And the people spoke against God and against Moses: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.” So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died.

Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

The serpant did indeed represent Christ..................[John 3:14 KJV] "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:"

[John 12:32 KJV] "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me."
[John 12:33 KJV] "This he said, signifying what death he should die."............that Jesus would die was not a mystery it was found in the prophets. ................. [Daniel 9:26 KJV] "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.".............. What wasnt revealed was all the cross would accomplish

 

[David in NJ]

The serpant did indeed represent Christ..................[John 3:14 KJV] "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:"

[John 12:32 KJV] "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me."
[John 12:33 KJV] "This he said, signifying what death he should die."............that Jesus would die was not a mystery it was found in the prophets. ................. [Daniel 9:26 KJV] "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.".............. What wasnt revealed was all the cross would accomplish

The 'Death' of the serpent on the Cross represents CHRIST defeating Satan on the Cross thru HIS Own Sacrafice.

One Cross for One Gospel for One Salvation = "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile"

Romans 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,
for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

 

[Doug]

So you say but provide no evidence or rational argument.

So you say but provide no evidence or rational argument.

[John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd."
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;"
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

 

[bdavidc]

For everyone reading, let me cut through the fog and call this what it is. What @Doug is pushing is not new light. It is an old system commonly known as hyper-dispensationalism or Acts 28 theology. It has been around for over a hundred years. It teaches that the real Body of Christ did not begin at Pentecost, that early Acts believers belonged to a different church, and that Paul later revealed a separate church and calling. That is why Scripture keeps getting sliced, delayed, and redefined. The Bible never teaches that.

Luke openly calls it the church long before Paul’s imprisonment ~Acts 5:11; ~Acts 9:31. Paul says he persecuted the church of God, singular ~1 Corinthians 15:9. He says Gentiles are fellowheirs and of the same body ~Ephesians 3:6. He says Christ made both one ~Ephesians 2:14–15. He says there is one body ~Ephesians 4:4. God Himself said He made no difference between Jew and Gentile ~Acts 15:9.

Any teaching that depends on hidden knowledge, delayed truth, or special insight may sound deep, but it is not biblical. God does not hide saving truth behind secret systems. Scripture warns against dividing what Christ made one. “Is Christ divided?” ~1 Corinthians 1:13.

This is not new truth being resisted. It is old error being recycled. The Word of God is plain. One gospel. One body. One Lord. Everything else is division dressed up as insight.

 

[Lambano]

Then how can you say that the whole Bible isnt symbolic

The Master of Parables might use visions, poetry, metaphor, symbolism, and non-literal language to communicate truth? Imagine that.

 

[amigo de christo]

Peter was referring to the Gentiles who believed in Acts 10 and wasn't preaching Paul's gospel, he was preaching only to believe on the name of Jesus..............[Acts 10:43 KJV] "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
Its always by faith

ya keep parroting the same ol song and dance that men taught you .
but that is what happens when folks sit under men who teach TWO gospels or anything else contrary to GOD .
You wanna know what i notice that all have in common that love to sit under men who DO
teach contrary doctrine . OH its not the doctrine for many false teachers do teach contrary to other false teachers .
ITS the fact that NON E of them seems to enjoy REALLY reading JUST the bible DAILY
reading LETTERS as a Whole for themselves . They read what LITTLE they do read
with lots of footnotes and through who so evers greek or etc THEY SAT UNDER does teach them .
Now that might STING a wh ole lot to have to hear that
BUT GOOD MEDICINE might sting , but if one takes heed it WILL SURELY HEAL .
GET thineself BACK in BIBLE and ENJOY BIBLE f or yourself , without the influence of ya men and their doctrines which TWIST IT

 

[Doug]

That is not what the verses state. You’re not dealing with the actual wording of the verses; there is nothing in passage about blessing believing Israel. You need to deal with what is stated, not what you want to be stated.

[Matthew 25:32 KJV] "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:"
[Matthew 25:33 KJV] "And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."
[Matthew 25:34 KJV] "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"............the sheep on his right hand are the Gentiles that will inherit the kingdom based on how they treated Israel...........[Matthew 25:40 KJV] "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me."

 

[amigo de christo]

The 'Death' of the serpent on the Cross represents CHRIST defeating Satan on the Cross thru HIS Own Sacrafice.

One Cross for One Gospel for One Salvation = "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile"

Romans 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,
for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

WHY herein might indeed be a mystery .
FOR HE WHO WAS CRUCIFIED upon THE CROSS
By HIS own death DEFEATED HE who had power over death .
The serpent cometh not but to STEAL , TO KILL and TO DESTROY
But unto all WHO LOOK UPON THE CHRIST , the devil no longer , the serpent no longer
HAS POWER OV ER . THEY HAVE BEEN FREED f rom THAT POWER
upon which HELD ALL MEN captive and in death .
But even now many cannot see , but see only the veil , the covering
OF THAT WHICH WAS to be revealed in CHRIST JESUS .
WHAT IF much of what was done was all but a foreshadow OF WHAT WAS TO COME .
IN other words , MUCH of what is written down
which was patterend AFTER the heavenly but NOT THE HEAVENLY ITSELF WHICH ALONE WOULD BE REVEALED IN JESUS CHRIST .
IN other words , THIS SURE SEEMS to ALWAYS HAVE BEEN THE PLAN OF GOD
and that for but a season THE LAW had come , TILL THE PROMISE CAME .
IN other words , A TON of what we read in that bible , DO POINT TO JESUS .
From page one , from even the very words where it was said
LET THERE BE LIGHT , FULLFILLMENT , the completion of the works WO ULD
be finished BY the very ONE Himself who first had said LET THERE BE LIGHT .
A FULLFILLMENT OF .......................
For under the first And since the beginning of creation , GOD ALWAYS KNEW
and always had pre determined exactly W HO would save HIS own creation by which
if the created DO believe , do look upon THEY WILL be saved .
But does not the very words and Words of GOD reveal GOD un to the beleiver of such words .
TRUTH reveals ONLY TRUTH . Many are the places in torah that point to CHRIST
for What does , WHO does TRUTH POINT US TOO . WHY GOD OF COURSE . Ever wonder why
THE T RUTH , THE SPIRIT , the very Word of GOD , points ONLY TO HE WHOM GOD DID SEND
WHO ALWAYS pleased the FATHER and that bY HIM we can worship THE FATHER as HE ALWAYS desired .
So allow some parting words
Get every man woman an d c hild AWAY from satans ecumeincal WHORE SOLD lie and NOW .
And get them back into THE BIBLE for to learn and to g row by HIS GRACE , by faith IN THE ONE TRUE JESUS