I SEE TWO CHURCHES IN ACTS 15

[Doug]

So, to be consistent, at the final judgement you're saying all the sheep from "all the nations" are only Jews?

Yes only Israel are called sheep and Christ is their Shepherd. He will bring the divided nation of Israel into one nation. The Gentile nations that didnt bless believing Israel in the tribulation are the goats who will be judged at Christ"s return

 

[David in NJ]

John 3 has something I can apply to myself. I believe in him, the Son of God.
But this is not the salvation verse we think it is.,,,,,,,,,,,,[John 3:18 KJV] "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."...........people never get past v16 to read v18. V18 says to have eternal life it was required for whosoever to only believe on his name. They had to believe he was their Christ, the Son of God. Nothing yet of the cross. Johnn further embellishes this..............[John 20:31 KJV] "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

Good Morning

2 to Know

#1 - When was the Cross first Applied to Salvation???

#2 - What was/is Permanently and Forever Attached to His Name???

 

[Doug]

#1 - When was the Cross first Applied to Salvation???

Jesus revealed that Christ's redemption was for all to Paul..................[1 Timothy 2:6 KJV] "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

 

[Doug]

#2 - What was/is Permanently and Forever Attached to His Name???

Dont know what you mean

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The church that Paul persecuted can only be the little flock that was scattered. The believing remnant of Israel were scattered. Nowhere in scripture is the body of Christ said to be scattered.

Well where they were scattered, they had to trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus for their salvation. Paul would go to the synagogue in every town he went to first and preached to teh Jews. So are you now saying Paul also preached two different gospels?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus revealed that Christ's redemption was for all to Paul..................[1 Timothy 2:6 KJV] "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

He also revealed it to teh Apostles in Matthew 28 and Acts 1. They were commanded to go into the world- which they did and preached jesus to Jew and Gentile. But according to you, all theior converts were part of the little flock- not so little of a flock by the end of the mid-1st century.

 

[Doug]

So are you now saying Paul also preached two different gospels?

I dont get where you are getting this idea from. Elaborate please

 

[Ronald Nolette]

what do you mean "So why aren't you submitting to all the Mosaic Law?"
I see once again you evaded having to answer my questions

I answered your question. You probably didn't like what I wrote, so you are saying I didn't answer it.

If you were any kind of student of the Scriptures, you would know Jesus ministry had two phases.

Phase One, the announcing of the prophesied kingdom to Israe and that Her King was there.

Phase two: After the national rejection of jesus as Messiah by the pharisees in Matt. 12, Jesus ministry changed and He began training the Apostles for building the church.

But because you are so fixated on two gospels and two chuches, you do not see that Jesus said that the announcement of Peter was the rock upon which He would build HIs church, singular!

Even Peter agreed that through Pauls message, Gentiles were coming to faith in Jesus. But you cannot prove they are tow distinct churches,

 

[Doug]

He also revealed it to teh Apostles in Matthew 28 and Acts 1. They were commanded to go into the world- which they did and preached jesus to Jew and Gentile. But according to you, all theior converts were part of the little flock- not so little of a flock by the end of the mid-1st century.

The twe;ve were preaching the gospel of the kingdom not Paul's gospel

 

[Ezra]

Yes only Israel are called sheep and Christ is their Shepherd. He will bring the divided nation of Israel into one nation. The Gentile nations that didnt bless believing Israel in the tribulation are the goats who will be judged at Christ"s return

so those born again are not sheep? please explain more of your beleif i mean do you attend a church like this. or this only you??? your using strange fire

 

[Doug]

I answered your question. You probably didn't like what I wrote, so you are saying I didn't answer it.

If you were any kind of student of the Scriptures, you would know Jesus ministry had two phases.

Phase One, the announcing of the prophesied kingdom to Israe and that Her King was there.

Phase two: After the national rejection of jesus as Messiah by the pharisees in Matt. 12, Jesus ministry changed and He began training the Apostles for building the church.

But because you are so fixated on two gospels and two chuches, you do not see that Jesus said that the announcement of Peter was the rock upon which He would build HIs church, singular!

Even Peter agreed that through Pauls message, Gentiles were coming to faith in Jesus. But you cannot prove they are tow distinct churches,

what do you mean "So why aren't you submitting to all the Mosaic Law?" ............I was aking you to explain what you were asking
I see once again you evaded having to answer my questions.............You were agreeing that there is one church so I was asking about NT passages that would therefore obligate you to make them relevant to you. I didnt receive any answer to them that I know of.

Jesus was teaching the disciples about the millennial kingdom. Paul has a lot of details about the church

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus revealed that Christ's redemption was for all to Paul..................[1 Timothy 2:6 KJV] "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

REPEAT: #1 - When was the Cross first Applied to Salvation???

 

[Doug]

so those born again are not sheep? please explain more of your beleif i mean do you attend a church like this. or this only you??? your using strange fire

Israel is called sheep and would include saved Jews

I listen to Grace Ambassadors online

 

[Doug]

REPEAT: #1 - When was the Cross first Applied to Salvation???

It was first applied at his crucifixion.............[Matthew 26:2 KJV] "Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified."
The forgiveness of sins was only for the many, which was Israel.............[Matthew 26:28 KJV] "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
Jesus's death was to forgive the sins Israel committed under the first testament................[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."

 

[complete]

'Subject Heading, 'I See Two Churches In Acts 15'

I contend that Acts 15 revels that there was indeed two churches. There was the little flock Jerusalem church and the body of Christ that, for a time, existed together.
[Acts 11:19 KJV] "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only."........
No Gentiles were being preached to. We have to be careful in assuming which church is being referred to in Galatians 2 and Acts 15. There were churches in Antioch before Paul was saved. Paul persecuted the little flock Jerusalem church and they were scattered as far as Antioch. These churches were not body of Christ churches, they were the little flock Jerusalem churches.

[Acts 15:1 KJV] "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.".........
If they came down from Judea, chances are these men who said the Gentile believers had to be circumcised were not from the body of Christ, but from the little flock church (I will explain). ........ [Acts 15:2 KJV] "When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.".........Paul and Barnabas disputed with the men from Judea, not with the body of Christ members. It was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of "them" from Judea should go to Jerusalem about this matter. If Paul was going to the apostles and elders, these apostles and elders were from the little flock Jerusalem church.
Paul could not have been disputing about matters within his ministry, but was dealing with stipulations being imposed on Gentile believers by some of the believing circumcision little flock..........[Galatians 1:22 KJV] "And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:".........Paul says the churches of Judea were in Christ; the Jews in the little flock who believed on the name of Christ were in Christ, not just those in the body of Christ. ........Paul was unknown to the churches of Judea who only knew he persecuted them. That is why I said that those who came down from Judea weren't in the body of Christ, the churches of Judea didn't know Paul..........[Galatians 1:23 KJV] "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.".......It is very doubtful that those from Judea were in the body of Christ.

[Acts 15:22 KJV] "Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:".........When James says they would send men from their OWN company that precludes them from being members of the body of Christ. The apostle and elders sent chosen men of their own company which is those of the little flock, NOT of the body of Christ along with Paul and Barnabas. This wasn't done by Paul alone.
[Acts 15:23 KJV] "And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:"
[Acts 15:24 KJV] "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:".......It is certain that those who said the Gentiles had to keep the law of Moses were from the little flock churches and not the body of Christ members. The apostles and elders of the little flock did not command anybody to go to the Gentiles and say they had to keep the law.
[Acts 15:25 KJV] "It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"........They sent believing little flock members WITH Paul and Barnabas. There was the little flock and the body of Christ in view here.
No doubt there were two churches here and saying there was just one church is incorrect.

The little flock church are those who believed the preaching of Jesus and the twelve. They believed only on the name of Jesus, that he was Christ, the Son of God, and had life by his name. They were persecuted and scattered under Paul. They were still in existence during the conversion and some of the ministry of Paul. The elders and apostles from the little flock church met with Paul in the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. The dispute arose from the little flock saying that Gentiles would have to follow the law of Moses. The little flock were the ones who disputed with Paul. This question would have impacted Paul and the church who were preaching liberty in Christ and that Gentiles weren't under the law.

'Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh,
called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision,
which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ,
alienated from the commonwealth of Israel
and strangers to the covenants of promise,
having no hope and without God in the world.
But now in Christ Jesus
you who once were far off have been brought near
by the blood of Christ.
For He Himself is our peace,
who has made us both one
and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility
by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances,
that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two,
so making peace,
and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross,
thereby killing the hostility.
And He came and preached peace to you who were far off
and peace to those who were near.
For through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,
but you are fellow citizens with the saints
and members of the household of God,
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
in Whom the whole structure, being joined together,
grows into a holy temple in the Lord.
In Him you also are being built together
into a dwelling place for God
by the Spirit.'
(Eph 2:11 ESV+)

Hello @Doug,

The Church which is the Body of Christ was still 'hid in God' until revealed by Paul in the prison epistles (Eph. 3:9). It is 'unsearchable' elsewhere. See Ephesians and Colossians with Philippians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, written from Paul, as The Lord's Prisoner 'for you Gentiles'.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[amigo de christo]

if one cannot even BELIEVE the gospel
there is N O LIGHT IN THEM .
And one cannot love BELEIF IN HIM and UNBELEIF , they will cling to UNBELEIF .
as we clearly see in ecumenicism . EITHER we BELEIVE HIS WORDS
or we have only decieved ourselves .
Because IF JESUS said it , LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR .
and we both know JESUS WAS NOT MERE MAN . HIS WORDS are SPIRIT
and THEY ARE LIFE .

 

[Ezra]

Israel is called sheep and would include saved Jews

I listen to Grace Ambassadors online

mid-Acts dispensationalism or the Grace Movement implies there are different gospels, a gospel of the kingdom taught by Peter and a gospel of grace taught by Paul. Under the law, works were required, but with the coming of Paul’s doctrine, it is all by grace. However, the Old Testament (and the first part of the New Testament) does not teach justification by works (Romans 4:1–3); being justified before God has always been by grace through faith, and the Jews in Galilee were not saved a different way from the Gentiles in Achaia.

Mid-Acts dispensationalism is a particular flavor of dispensationalism that carefully distinguishes Israel from the church. While we disagree with them on water baptism, the role of the law before the church age, and the exact start of the church age, we consider mid-Acts dispensationalists to be our brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Ezra]

i suspected this but wasnt sure looks like we just to agree we disagree

 

[Doug]

Phase two: After the national rejection of jesus as Messiah by the pharisees in Matt. 12, Jesus ministry changed and He began training the Apostles for building the church.

I dont see scripture where Christ is training the twelve for building the church. Where do you?
As I said he spoke of the millennial kingdom

 

[Lambano]

I dont see scripture where Christ is training the twelve for building the church. Where do you?
As I said he spoke of the millennial kingdom

Maybe the thousand years in John's Revelation is symbolic, not literal, and the Church IS the Kingdom of God.