I thought that I would bring this to the forefront...

[justbyfaith]

...because it is one of my better posts.

From Not faith alone?

James said that if you break just ONE Law.....you have broken them ALL....

Given it up, guys.....God has us ALL “ trapped like rats” when it comes to using our Obedience to the Law as a means to merit Salvation.....
Think you are doing pretty Good , “fit for Heaven” because you have never committed Adultery? Jesus said if you just have a Lustful Thought you are as guilty as the guy that does it .Keep EVERY Law for Decades? Break just ONE Law, just ONE time ? You may as well have broken them all.If you make it past “these” barriers .....how are you doing with those pesky” Sins Of Omission?” How-many Strangers have you invited into your homes this week to feed and clothe?
Can’t you “ get it” . Don't you smell something, “ a little Fishy” ? Like God is trying Severely to Squash ANY and ALL attempts by human beings to make it to Heaven by their Performance? Only a Fool or somebody Seriously Deceived or Blinded by Satan would think they had a chance.As I said....God has the World Trapped like rats—-You either swallow your Pride and admit that the only chance to get SaveD is to accept the GRACE off God and realize that there are only TWO THINGS that Save you and keep you Saved — CHRIST’s BLOOD and YOUR FAITH . Nothing else.Obedience is great....it will get you blessed , here on Earth and it will get you Rewards in Heaven. It WILL NOT get you Saved......always remember the Song when it comes to Salvation, because it really IS True—- “Nothing But The Blood”.....God Bless.

All of this is not to say that we ought to reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Ghost as He seeks to make us more like Christ, holy vessels, after we have been justified by the grace of God.

Therefore....even if you attain your “ Fool’s Errand” Of Sinless Perfection .....you have been Barking Up the Wrong Tree!

Of course we are justified, not by keeping the law perfectly, but through Christ's shed blood; which justifies us (Romans 5:9) in imputed righteousness regardless of whether we have a perfect performance or not. We have a new identity in Christ, that we are the righteousness of the Lord in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21) even if we are ungodly in our behaviour (Romans 4:5). Now go and live like your new identity (see 1 John 3:7)....wherein you are practically righteous even as Christ is righteous. This is not the catalyst for our salvation, it is the result.

Therefore....even if you attain your “ Fool’s Errand” Of Sinless Perfection .....you have been Barking Up the Wrong Tree! You will wind up just like the Jews that Paul said we’re damned.

Damned for having been sanctified wholly? If that is the case, then we ought to reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit as He attempts to accomplish that in us. And I really don't think that that is God's message.

Even if I keep the law perfectly, this does not mean that I am necessarily justified by my law-keeping.

If I have already been justified by Christ, and His Spirit within me is fulfilling the righteousness of the law within me, then that fulfilling of the law is not going to condemn me; because I am still justified by the faith of Christ.

We know they are damned because Paul said he loved these Jewish Brothers So much that he would go to Hell on their behalf if he could .Like many here, they have a Zeal for God , but not with Knowledge—- they were trying to establish “their own “ Righteousness ( by there adherence to the Law....sound familiar? ) as opposed to GOD’S ONLY WAY to obtain Righteousness ——TOTAL FAITH in the FINISHED WORK of the CROSS .....Plus NOTHING!

First of all, the finished work of the Cross has to do with Jesus' shed blood...and that has the function of sanctifying the believer (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleansing him from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Secondly, what your statements mean is that we are not supposed to attempt to gain righteousness by being obedient to a set of do's and don'ts...as believers in Christ, we come at it from a different angle:

We receive the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 3:14) and then we bear the fruit of the Spirit, against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23)...thus the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

It is a righteousness of God apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

The result is apparently the same...we do not violate the law.

(actually it is not the same; because if you seek to enter into righteousness through the avenue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts, you will utterly fail at what you are attempting).

But the avenue by which we reach the goal is by faith alone.

Thus, when Jewish people seek to obtain their own righteousness through the avenue of law-keeping, they are not submitting to the righteousness of God; which in all reality is by faith.

In seeking to obtain it through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts, they stumble at that stumbling stone.

Why? Because they see that those who are born again do not have violations of the law on their record since receiving salvation (Galatians 5:22-23)....so they assume that the way to receive salvation is to seek to obey the law.

When in reality the need is to put their faith in Jesus.

When they do, the love of God will be shed abroad in their hearts through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).

And this love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18)...it is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within the believer (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

It is not the end result, therefore, that is condemned by Paul...

It is the avenue by which some attempt to reach the goal (attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts), that is truly condemned by him.

 

[justbyfaith]

.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Therefore....even if you attain your “ Fool’s Errand” Of Sinless Perfection .....you have been Barking Up the Wrong Tree! You will wind up just like the Jews that Paul said we’re damned.



Damned for having been sanctified wholly? If that is the case, then we ought to reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit as He attempts to accomplish that in us. And I really don't think that that is God's message.

Nobody will be “ wholly Sanctified” while they are alive in a body of Flesh...that will happen “ over there”.....
Theoretically speaking , if a person did attain a level of “ Sinless perfection” , I am NOT saying that would damn a person.....What I AM saying is that if a person believes that 100% Sanctification is the means of Salvation and nothing less than that perfect Performance will make you fit for Heaven....you are preaching a False , Perverted Gospel. If you “ fall” for that Horse Hockey, you will “ Fall from Grace—- preach it or teach it and you are “ Accursed” .....damned by God .....I didn’t say it- God said it.....Gal.1:8......

 

[Paul Christensen]

...because it is one of my better posts.

From Not faith alone?
You will be interested to know that I viewed a message by Norval Hayes, one of the original WOF preachers, before Kenny and his merry men came on the scene with their corruption of the movement. I loved Norval's preaching, and he really inspires stronger faith in the promises of God and that faith in God releases the mighty power of the Holy Spirit.



All of this is not to say that we ought to reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Ghost as He seeks to make us more like Christ, holy vessels, after we have been justified by the grace of God.

Of course we are justified, not by keeping the law perfectly, but through Christ's shed blood; which justifies us (Romans 5:9) in imputed righteousness regardless of whether we have a perfect performance or not. We have a new identity in Christ, that we are the righteousness of the Lord in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21) even if we are ungodly in our behaviour (Romans 4:5). Now go and live like your new identity (see 1 John 3:7)....wherein you are practically righteous even as Christ is righteous. This is not the catalyst for our salvation, it is the result.

Damned for having been sanctified wholly? If that is the case, then we ought to reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit as He attempts to accomplish that in us. And I really don't think that that is God's message.

Even if I keep the law perfectly, this does not mean that I am necessarily justified by my law-keeping.

If I have already been justified by Christ, and His Spirit within me is fulfilling the righteousness of the law within me, then that fulfilling of the law is not going to condemn me; because I am still justified by the faith of Christ.

First of all, the finished work of the Cross has to do with Jesus' shed blood...and that has the function of sanctifying the believer (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleansing him from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Secondly, what your statements mean is that we are not supposed to attempt to gain righteousness by being obedient to a set of do's and don'ts...as believers in Christ, we come at it from a different angle:

We receive the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 3:14) and then we bear the fruit of the Spirit, against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23)...thus the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

It is a righteousness of God apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

The result is apparently the same...we do not violate the law.

(actually it is not the same; because if you seek to enter into righteousness through the avenue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts, you will utterly fail at what you are attempting).

But the avenue by which we reach the goal is by faith alone.

Thus, when Jewish people seek to obtain their own righteousness through the avenue of law-keeping, they are not submitting to the righteousness of God; which in all reality is by faith.

In seeking to obtain it through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts, they stumble at that stumbling stone.

Why? Because they see that those who are born again do not have violations of the law on their record since receiving salvation (Galatians 5:22-23)....so they assume that the way to receive salvation is to seek to obey the law.

When in reality the need is to put their faith in Jesus.

When they do, the love of God will be shed abroad in their hearts through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).

And this love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18)...it is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within the believer (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

It is not the end result, therefore, that is condemned by Paul...

It is the avenue by which some attempt to reach the goal (attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts), that is truly condemned by him.

Interestingly he said that God does not like those who make fun of tongues and prophecy, and of the Holy Spirit and Jesus. Such people feel the rod of God as He chastises them. I believe that. If we ridicule tongues and prophecy, we are ridiculing the Holy Spirit, and we will pay a serious price for it.

After hearing a sermon like that, "almost thou persuadest me to be WOF!"

 

[justbyfaith]

Interestingly he said that God does not like those who make fun of tongues and prophecy, and of the Holy Spirit and Jesus. Such people feel the rod of God as He chastises them. I believe that. If we ridicule tongues and prophecy, we are ridiculing the Holy Spirit, and we will pay a serious price for it.

After hearing a sermon like that, "almost thou persuadest me to be WOF!"

I believe that you included in what was in my quote, something that I did not say.

 

[justbyfaith]

Therefore....even if you attain your “ Fool’s Errand” Of Sinless Perfection .....you have been Barking Up the Wrong Tree! You will wind up just like the Jews that Paul said we’re damned.

Damned for having been sanctified wholly? If that is the case, then we ought to reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit as He attempts to accomplish that in us. And I really don't think that that is God's message.

Nobody will be “ wholly Sanctified” while they are alive in a body of Flesh...that will happen “ over there”.....
Theoretically speaking , if a person did attain a level of “ Sinless perfection” , I am NOT saying that would damn a person.....What I AM saying is that if a person believes that 100% Sanctification is the means of Salvation and nothing less than that perfect Performance will make you fit for Heaven....you are preaching a False , Perverted Gospel. If you “ fall” for that Horse Hockey, you will “ Fall from Grace—- preach it or teach it and you are “ Accursed” .....damned by God .....I didn’t say it- God said it.....Gal.1:8......

No, I do not preach that entire sanctification is the means to salvation; I preach that it will be the end result of a real salvation.

In Romans 4:11 (which I have mentioned this before), it teaches that circumcision of the heart is not necessary in order to have righteousness imputed unto you. Therefore, if circumcision of the heart be entire sanctification, then entire sanctification is not necessary for salvation.

It sure is nice to have, though.

Because it means that you can still have a good conscience and yet not be afflicted in your conscience over wrong that you have done.

Because you are not doing any wrong.

It is not that you do not have the element of sin dwelling in you; it is that this element has been rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) and therefore inept so that it no longer has any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14).

For the one who is discontented with a lifestyle of sin (see Romans 7:24), the doctrine of entire sanctification is good news.

However, for the person who wants to believe that they can continue to live in sin and yet stay redeemed (while they may have never been redeemed), it is a stench in their nostrils.

Because it tells them that they are responsible for their sins when they stand before the Lord at His judgment seat.

It testifies that such verses as Matthew 7:23 and Matthew 13:41-42 may condemn them on their day of judgment.

Romans 4:20-22 tells us of the person who is justified before God as a sinner. It is the person who will not waver at the promise of God but who will consider that what He has promised, He is able to perform.

There are specific promises in holy scripture concerning entire sanctification, a few of them I will relate below:

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9.

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6.

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17,

Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11.

You can obtain these promises by faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22).

If you will put in the effort of memorizing these promises, you can lay hold of them and the Lord will work into you the reality of entire sanctification through faith in Him...through abiding in the vine; who is Jesus Christ.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The person who believes that he or she has been 100% Sanctified—Somebody Completely Without Sin— in this lifetime? Give me two minutes with their husband or wife.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

In Romans 4:11 (which I have mentioned this before), it teaches that circumcision of the heart is not necessary in order to have righteousness imputed unto you. Therefore, if circumcision of the heart be entire sanctification, then entire sanctification is not necessary for salvation.

What on EARTH are you talking about? If you don’t have a New Heart , you are going to Hell......it’s like saying “ I don’t have the Holy Spirit in me” .....If one does not have the Holy Spirit ( the New Heart) within them—— “ They are NONE of His”....

 

[ChristisGod]

In Romans 4:11 (which I have mentioned this before), it teaches that circumcision of the heart is not necessary in order to have righteousness imputed unto you. Therefore, if circumcision of the heart be entire sanctification, then entire sanctification is not necessary for salvation.

What on EARTH are you talking about? If you don’t have a New Heart , you are going to Hell......it’s like saying “ I don’t have the Holy Spirit in me” .....If one does not have the Holy Spirit ( the New Heart) within them—— “ They are NONE of His”....

some twist the scriptures to their own destruction.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you have a new heart, then you have been sanctified wholly.

some twist the scriptures to their own destruction.

I give grace to those who have not yet received the 2nd blessing as I have, and I am "twisting the scriptures to my own destruction"?

Well, my friend, you have been commanded to do whatever you can to save me (James 5:19-20), so by all means show me the error of my way in holy scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

The person who believes that he or she has been 100% Sanctified—Somebody Completely Without Sin— in this lifetime? Give me two minutes with their husband or wife.....

My wife tells me that she feels that I live a consistently righteous life...

And I would accommodate you except that there is really no way for you to talk to her from where you are at unless I give you my phone #...and I only do that with people whom I consider to be a friend.

Maybe a month ago I might have done so...but ever since you tried to say to everyone that I am a false teacher I do not any more consider you to be a friend.

But you can take my word for it, because I wouldn't lie to you about something that my wife has said.

 

[farouk]

There is a distinction between positional sanctification in Christ, and day by day sanctification as to one's condition.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is a distinction between positional sanctification in Christ, and day by day sanctification as to one's condition.

The latter is spoken of in 1 John 1:7, impaho...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

My wife tells me that she feels that I live a consistently righteous life...

And I would accommodate you except that there is really no way for you to talk to her from where you are at unless I give you my phone #...and I only do that with people whom I consider to be a friend.

Maybe a month ago I might have done so...but ever since you tried to say to everyone that I am a false teacher I do not any more consider you to be a friend.

But you can take my word for it, because I wouldn't lie to you about something that my wife has said.

I bet you have very sweet wife .....I am sure she is sincere .....
I can’t help but wonder, though .....can she read your mind? Does she know that sometimes you harbor secret thoughts that would shame Hell ?Are you gonna stand there and tell me you never have at least a fleeting lustful thought? You never get angry.....you are never envious of somebody else ?
Even if you cleared “ those” hurdles .....how about those forever “ pesky” Sins Of Omission? Will your wife be able to tell me how often you serve on the local Food Line for the poor, or will she tell me about all those strangers you invited into your home to feed and clothe?
As I have said before —- God has the entire World Trapped like a Rat. If you are depending on “ your” Righteous Living to get you to Heaven .....you are SERIOUSLY deceived!If you go that route , the Standard is PERFECTION , and you can’t reach that Standard , in spite of what your wife says about you....
Why not “ come to and END of yourself” as far as your personal Salvation is concerned ? Which is what God wants to see.God gave Mankind an enormous “ loophole!” If you are blessed enough to see that if you will Rest in His Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing, He will take all Of your Sins and throw them into “ the deepest depths of the Ocean” and actually “ remember them no more!”
Faith in Christ’s Righteousness and NOT in “ Your” Righteousness is what will Save you.Grace Through Faith is the only plan that God has for us Sinners today.....I hope that God will give you “ eyes to see” and give up on “ your” Performance and get your eyes on “ HIS” Performance....or do you prefer to hear after you offer up your “ sin free” life as your Justification—- “ Depart from Me , I never knew you”. God saves those that are Trusting.He will damn all of those that are “ Trying” for their Salvation —— trying for that “ good enough Performance to get in”......God won’t have it......

 

[farouk]

The latter is spoken of in 1 John 1:7, impaho...

@justbyfaith Yes, it would seem to be the latter aspect in view there, where the established earlier aspect is demonstrated.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Blood Bought 1953...

There is no law against bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:18, Galatians 5:22-23)...

And therefore there is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed...

And, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

Whereas sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)...

And yet, we are told that we are delivered from the law in order that we might not any longer walk according to the oldness of the letter but according to the newness of the spirit (Romans 7:6)...

Thus, I am a sinner according to one definition (Galatians 6:13)...

But not according to another (Romans 14:23).