I will raise them on the last day.

[ewq1938]

Which ones are you meaning?

There are several mentioned but Lazarus was resurrected from the dead way before the ones did that you call the first resurrection...they weren't first at all. The real first resurrection happens at the second coming and is teh first of two large groups of the dead that Rev 20 speaks of.

 

[Marty fox]

There are several mentioned but Lazarus was resurrected from the dead way before the ones did that you call the first resurrection...they weren't first at all. The real first resurrection happens at the second coming and is teh first of two large groups of the dead that Rev 20 speaks of.

Lazarus rose before decay and died again. These were the mass resurrection of the Old Testament saints who rose when Jesus died because paid the price for their sins. They then came out of their tombs after Jesus resurrection

 

[David in NJ]

Lazarus rose before decay and died again. These were the mass resurrection of the Old Testament saints who rose when Jesus died because paid the price for their sins. They then came out of their tombs after Jesus resurrection

Only a select few were raised.
Like Lazarus, they were not raised unto Glorified bodies = this only occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Only a select few were raised.
Like Lazarus, they were not raised unto Glorified bodies = this only occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.

Just as Moses and Elijah returned to the grave to await their resurrection to glory, so Christ did, being the firstfruits or firstborn of those who sleep.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is what the verse says for clarification do you agree with it or not?

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

You seem to want me to answer your questions but are reluctant to answer mine.
If you are a Bible student rather than a student of theology, you will know how to answer my questions to you....because as I have shown you the logical answers from the Bible.

Let’s see how this verse is rendered in a variety of translations....

This is at the moment when Christ breathed his last breath....a great earthquake occurred....

ESV... “And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.”

ASV... “And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake; and the rocks were rent; and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.”

NIV....”At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.”

KJV...”And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

In the original Greek the word “they” is missing. In the KJV even though ”they” has been omitted, the suggestion is still there that these “saints” were resurrected and walking about in Jerusalem drawing attention to themselves. The saints were to be raised in an immortal spirit body to enter heaven, not in an earthly one where flesh and blood cannot go. Do you not see the problem? These saints cannot have been raised to life before Jesus was.

If you concentrate on the word “raised” or “arose”, see what it means in other verses of Scripture....

Same with the word “appeared”....look them up in a good Concordance and see how they are translated in other versions and used in other verses...then you will be able to see the scope of the words you think have only one meaning......context also plays a big role in how these words are translated.

A Bible student is not confined to what bickering scholars think....or teach, but will be like the Beroeans and check it all out for themselves....everything must fit into one truth....and nothing from outside of it belongs.

Lazarus rose before decay and died again. These were the mass resurrection of the Old Testament saints who rose when Jesus died because paid the price for their sins. They then came out of their tombs after Jesus resurrection

No Old Testament “saints” will go to heaven....the first ones chosen under the new covenant were Jesus’ apostles, not the men of faith in former times. These never entertained a heavenly hope. They looked forward to the reign of Messiah’s kingdom on earth.
It is the apostles who form the very foundations of God’s Kingdom in heaven. (Rev 21:14)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Only a select few were raised.
Like Lazarus, they were not raised unto Glorified bodies = this only occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.

Everything Jesus and his apostes did was a foregleam of the new world to come...the healing of the sick and the the raising of the dead....teaching and educating those who never got to know the true God and his son.
The bodies of the saints will be transformed into glorious spirit beings in order to dwell in the presence of God....they will rule from heaven over the redeemed human race on earth, bringing everything back to the way it was meant to be in the beginning. (Rev 21:2-4)

 

[David in NJ]

Just as Moses and Elijah returned to the grave to await their resurrection to glory, so Christ did, being the firstfruits or firstborn of those who sleep.

1 Cor 15:20-23

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

 

[David in NJ]

Everything Jesus and his apostes did was a foregleam of the new world to come...the healing of the sick and the the raising of the dead....teaching and educating those who never got to know the true God and his son.
The bodies of the saints will be transformed into glorious spirit beings in order to dwell in the presence of God....they will rule from heaven over the redeemed human race on earth, bringing everything back to the way it was meant to be in the beginning. (Rev 21:2-4)

Romans ch8
I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us.
19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.
20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope
21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the sons of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time.
23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see?
25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. = 1 Thess 1:10 , 1 John 3:1-3

 

[David in NJ]

Just as Moses and Elijah returned to the grave to await their resurrection to glory, so Christ did, being the firstfruits or firstborn of those who sleep.

You said: "Moses and Elijah returned to the grave."

Please elaborate on this - thank you

 

[Hiddenthings]

You said: "Moses and Elijah returned to the grave."

Please elaborate on this - thank you

2 views are held 1. They were a vision and not there in the flesh 2. God raised them to provide His Son encouragement for the trial ahead.

We know form Hebrews 11:39 - end that no-one to date has been glorified.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You said: "Moses and Elijah returned to the grave."

Please elaborate on this - thank you

Good grief! Where is all this fantasy coming from?
Where does it say that Moses and Elijah returned to the grave ?

They were never there in person....Jesus plainly said it was a “vision”.....(Matt 17:9) a vision shared by the three apostles in fulfilment of a promise Jesus made just days before. (Matt 16:28)

When does the fantasy end?!

 

[ewq1938]

Lazarus rose before decay and died again. These were the mass resurrection of the Old Testament saints who rose when Jesus died because paid the price for their sins. They then came out of their tombs after Jesus resurrection

People resurrected long before SOME OT saints did at the cross. That means they cannot be the "first resurrection". They weren't first.

 

[David in NJ]

2 views are held 1. They were a vision and not there in the flesh 2. God raised them to provide His Son encouragement for the trial ahead.

We know form Hebrews 11:39 - end that no-one to date has been glorified.

i do not believe they were a vision but actually appeared with JESUS on the Mount = in their spirit only

Yes, they would of returned to Paradise, which is the beautiful side of the grave, reserved for those who died in Faith in the Word.

AGREE = no one Glorified(except CHRIST) until the Second Coming

 

[David in NJ]

Good grief! Where is all this fantasy coming from?
Where does it say that Moses and Elijah returned to the grave ?

They were never there in person....Jesus plainly said it was a “vision”.....(Matt 17:9) a vision shared by the three apostles in fulfilment of a promise Jesus made just days before. (Matt 16:28)

When does the fantasy end?!

The vision spoke with JESUS???

Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” 8When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

9Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

Was the vision the FATHER speaking from Heaven???

Or was the actual spirits of Moses Elijah in the vision???

 

[Hiddenthings]

Good grief! Where is all this fantasy coming from?
Where does it say that Moses and Elijah returned to the grave ?

They were never there in person....Jesus plainly said it was a “vision”.....(Matt 17:9) a vision shared by the three apostles in fulfilment of a promise Jesus made just days before. (Matt 16:28)

When does the fantasy end?!

@David in NJ see David!

Neither can prove their position...which is why I am not dogmatic on that section.

‘Tell no one the vision" was to mean "Christ Glorified" in the Transfiguration.

Jane can try and force what she likes - she can't prove they were not there in the flesh.

 

[Hiddenthings]

i do not believe they were a vision but actually appeared with JESUS on the Mount = in their spirit only

Yes, they would of returned to Paradise, which is the beautiful side of the grave, reserved for those who died in Faith in the Word.

AGREE = no one Glorified(except CHRIST) until the Second Coming

Paradise is yet to come!

 

[David in NJ]

Paradise is yet to come!

Paradise was a special place set aside for the Saints who died in Faith in the Word.
They believed God at His Word, they were forgiven and not deserving of darkness or suffering.
However, they could not enter Heaven until the LORD Jesus Christ died and Rose again.
JESUS is the First Resurrected and Glorified Man = 1 Corinthians ch15

Today, all the Saints who died in Faith are in Heaven waiting to Return with JESUS for the Resurrection at which time they receive their Glorified Bodies = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Luke ch23
Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

 

[Hiddenthings]

Good grief! Where is all this fantasy coming from?
Where does it say that Moses and Elijah returned to the grave ?

They were never there in person....Jesus plainly said it was a “vision”.....(Matt 17:9) a vision shared by the three apostles in fulfilment of a promise Jesus made just days before. (Matt 16:28)

When does the fantasy end?!

@David in NJ

What's interesting about Janes post is the emphasis is squarely on Christ

Matthew 16:28 “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

The entire event centers on the future glorified Christ, and the presence of Moses (Law) and Elijah (Prophets) confirms both the first exodus and the greater, future exodus to come.

 

[David in NJ]

Calling it a night = Good Night @Hiddenthings @Aunty Jane @ewq1938

 

[Aunty Jane]

The vision spoke with JESUS???

Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” 8When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

9Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

Was the vision the FATHER speaking from Heaven???

Or was the actual spirits of Moses Elijah in the vision???

Can the vision not have audio? The voice of God is heard and it’s not Jesus speaking...it’s a reiteration of the declaration the Father made at his baptism.....the very beginning of his earthly mission....and now at the conclusion, God’s voice is heard again confirming that he is well pleased with the conduct and teachings of his son. They were told again to “listen to him”.

It was a vision of the representatins of the Kingdom....it’s glorious King represented by Jesus.....the Law represented by Moses and the Prophets represented by Elijah......both long dead and still sleeping. The whole thing was a vision.....shared by the three who accompanied Jesus to the mountain.