bbyrd009
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Hmm. I am persuaded that the frame from which that one—and the rest, I guess—should be understood is maybe where Christ is revealed
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I say the serpent was part of everything in the Garden which was pronounced very good by God. I do not interpret the serpent to be a physical serpent since I don't see Eden as being physical.
What Jews and Orthodox Christians believe. There is no such thing as inherited guilt. There are consequences to sin, that's for sure; and what we do certainly affects others, but I sin, that doesn't make anyone else guilty.
Jesus also said to "'be angry but sin not." Anger by itself is not a sin. Cain's first mistake was speaking in anger. Peter might say his tongue set his whole body on fire. God warned him at that point, trying to stop that fire from his tongue from spreading. Cain did not listen; and the "sin" that was crouching pounced on him and mastered him. Cain was meant to master it.
What I call the evil urge contains strength. If harnessed properly, that strength becomes a wonderful thing. Thus the "satan" in Peter needed to be harnessed; and Peter knew Jesus was not calling him satan to demean him, but to correct him and to make him into a better person. Peter did change; and it was that "satanic" strength that got brought under control that helped make him what he became.
I can live with either word. Human hearts today do contain many evil thoughts. They do not become sinful unless we act on them. Thus Paul talks about taking every thought captive. I am convinced that only the Holy Spirit can do this. Human hearts can become so depraved that people don't understand their own hearts. Repenting of sins we know about? We can do that without the Christ Spirit. We must do that too in order for Jesus to consider us his disciples. That leaves sins of the heart that we may not know about.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
The Christ Spirit can search the heart and reveal things to people about themselves that they couldn't have seen otherwise. There is hope for even the most depraved people if only they are willing to repent of the sins and mistakes they know of and then commit themselves to Jesus, trusting the Spirit to show them other things that need to be changed in their lives.
Look at the world. Most people only want to live their lives in peace. That includes people of every nationality, religion and so on. Yet no one knows how to achieve it. They follow bad leaders who also don't know how to achieve it.
That is a typical Jewish idea I learned from Maimonides. Evil can be compared to emptiness as well as darkness. It is the absence of virtue. The solution then for vices is to embrace virtues. Many people struggle and struggle trying to "resist evil" -- and then can go in circles. What they need to do is find virtues and embrace them.
If you wake up and it's dark, you can perceive that "nothingness" even there's not really anything there. You want light, so you turn on a light. Now you have something.
They took action when they shouldn't have. What people "imagine" often becomes what is "true" for them. Job said what he feared came to pass. The power of imagination to project reality like that lies in what Jesus called the "single eye." Other traditions call it the "inner eye." Some religions call it a chakra. What we call sin or evil is based on lies. What could Eve actually see? She saw that everything in the Garden was good. She could also see that the forbidden fruit was pleasant in a certain way. Then the serpent appealed to her imagination. I think she probably imagined that God was selfish and was hiding wisdom from her. She imagined God was not good, did not have a loving reason for what He said. Her faith in God failed because she had imagined something about God that wasn't true. I see her as failing to "love God" -- the most important commandment. She really had not reason to doubt the goodness of God since she could see all the good things He had provided; but somehow doubt and suspicion entered and took hold of her imagination. The facts of the reality she knew didn't matter as much as the fictional imaginary idea the serpent introduced.
There are two types of demons. Most can easily taken care of as the disciples learned. Then there is the more difficult type which Jesus said goes out only by prayer and fasting. You have probably guessed by now that I have seen some things when traveling out of my body. I have seen demons vanish into thin air like a soap bubble breaking. There is next to nothing there in reality. In the presence of the Light of God, this type of demon can be made to disappear into nothingness. I have also had wiccans and other types of people send me "demons" -- none of which harmed me in the least. The sad fact is that these people damaged themselves by doing that. I have also seen (in the Spirit) something that looked like smoke -- and when I moved down to take a closer look, that smoke was made up of insect like creatures. People fear the "locusts" that may come out of the pit later in Revelation? Some are already around. I've seen them. I could see what they were attempting to do and prayed for the protection of innocent people. They were "nothing" if seen from one perspective of reality; but they were certainly real enough from another perspective.
This kind of evil is an illusion -- like a veil over men's eyes. It is nothing, but if people believe in it, it has power over them; and if they deceive themselves, they're sitting ducks for illusions to take over. A very dangerous thing to do is to imagine something bad happening to someone else, keeping it in the mind, and taking pleasure in the thought -- and wishing it happens. Such a thought need to be dismissed before going to sleep, that's for sure. Going to sleep with such a thought in the mind is dangerous. Jesus said not to let the sun go down on wrath. He didn't explain why; but I tell you it's dangerous for the person who does it and dangerous for other people as well. People can be doing black magic as they sleep if they don't rid themselves of anger. True, such things are "nothing" -- but as long as people don't know what they're dealing with, they have power. These are "things" which come up out of the "water" to use the terms of the Bible; and people can summon things up out of the "water."
Then there are the real types of demons which are actual spiritual beings. They almost never violate anyone's free will since they know if they did that, they could be removed and sent to the bottomless pit.
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This goes back to how dominion over the earth works. Adam was given the authority to speak the way Jesus was seen speaking and having the wind obey. The animals were brought to Adam to name, so they would recognize his voice and know what to do when he asked them. They had to know what names he had given them.
I did not say the serpent was an animal as see animals today in the physical world.
The word "oracles" means something "oral."
Romans 3:What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
I have read many things, including some kabbalist materials and some "Oral Torah" or "Talmud" materials. I studied some of those things before I became a Christian, and I studied more of them after too. I've studied Buddhism and a little Hinduism. I can tell you that there are things in the Christian Bible that are indecipherable to most Christians. When Paul talks about "mysteries," he's talking about things you would call kabbalist -- things which were seldom discussed then, and only in part. I can tell you too that Peter referred to this when he said "unlearned" people could be misled by some of Paul's writings. Peter knows some kabllalist material but is more discrete in how he writes. Jude is very much a book based on the "Oral Torah" way of thinking, since what he writes is found in Jewish materials not included in the Bible. John also has kabbalist details in Revelation. He said it's not a sealed book; but if that's so, why do people struggle with it so?
Jesus complained about how a wrong tradition can make the Scriptures obscure. Jeremiah went further in his day and said people then did not have the "Word of God" because of the lying pens of scribes. Something is better than nothing, of course; and people can surely benefit from what they do understand when reading the Bible; but they should also ask themselves why some passages seem incomprehensible. The answer is Christianity today, in general, has established its own traditions. Anyone who challenges those traditions is seen as posing a threat.
There is little doubt in my mind that one of the biggest problems in Christianity began centuries ago when theologians took over -- men who lacked spiritual sight. They had never seen an angel or a demon. They had never received prophecy. They had never seen Paradise or Gehinnom let alone visiting Heaven. They were blind spiritually. Christianity became largely a religion of the blind leading the blind. They then began to spin doctrines about things they had never seen, trying to use logic. People can argue over who the Whore of Babylon is; but it should be clear, from the reference to Babel, that it includes a "babble" of many voices -- a great confusion.
So far as I can see, this problem will not be dealt with adequately until the Thousand Year Reign. The people who do pop up claiming not to be spiritually blind are often out to fleece the sheep. What people call the "New Age" is often out to make money from gullible people. At other times, it's worse since they may be encouraging bad behavior in their followers.
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Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Romans 5:12-15--Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
1 Cor. 15:20-22--But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Of course your sin doesn't make anyone guilty because Adam's sin did this.
If the serpent in the Garden is not the devil, then explain the curse that God pronounced on him. In Genesis 3:15, God said to the serpent, "I will put hostility between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel."
God said that the woman's seed would deal a deathblow to the serpent. Who could the woman's seed be but Jesus Christ, who dealt a death blow to the devil.
Hebrews 2:14-15--Now since the children have flesh and blood in common, Jesus also shared in these, so that through His death He might destroy the one holding the power of death — that is, the Devil — and free those who were held in slavery all their lives by the fear of death.
1 John 3:8--The one who commits sin is of the Devil, for the Devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose: to destroy the Devil’s works.
I don't believe that the Bible tells us how it is that the devil and the serpent in the Garden were one and the same. I don't know if the devil possessed the serpent's body. There are examples in the Bible where demons possess humans and animals, as the case with the Gadarene demoniac in Mark 5. I'm sure you know the story. Jesus directed the demons into some pigs.
This is how I believe heresies start. People try to figure out things that God hasn't seen fit to explain in His word, so people take the ball and run with it, making up their own explanations, which contradict the Bible in some way. I believe that every cult started this way.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
You're adding to the word of God! We're not told that the animals needed to recognize Adam's voice in order for him to have dominion over them! This sounds kind of like name it/claim it theology--the idea that if we speak something, our words make it so. Adam didn't have to speak to have dominion over the animals. This was granted to him and Eve by God.
What can I say? Why would you want to fill your mind with things that are not the truth? And then try to mix God's truth with UNtruth??
How can ALL of these religions be true? They contradict one another in HUGE ways! The very concept of who God is varies widely between some Eastern religions, who think of God as all that exists, and Judeo/Christian beliefs in which God is a personal being who created man in His image and who interacts with man in a personal way.
It's obvious to me that you are a very intelligent person. It seems that sometimes those who are so intelligent crave explanations for everything. But Paul tells us in 1 Cor 13:12, "For now we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known."
There are things about God that we will not understand here and now. I believe that we Christians are on a Need-to-Know basis in a way. God shows us what we need to know in order to live this life and serve Him. We walk by FAITH!
God opens up new understanding to me almost every time I read His word as the Holy Spirit directs me. And I love it when He does this, but I know that there will be things in the Bible that don't make sense to me until I see Him face to face. This spiritual understanding has to come from the Holy Spirit, not from the human mind and certainly not from some other kind of spirit.
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Nancy
Well-Known Member
I do have to agree with what you write here @Prayer Warrior
We are to be good stewards of what God has given us dominion over. Some will abuse, some will tend to and cultivate and take care of. I see nothing of the sort in the Scriptures stating that the animals would "recognize Adam's voice" or to "...speak as Jesus did to the wind..."
"What can I say? Why would you want to fill your mind with things that are not the truth? And then try to mix God's truth with UNtruth??" "If even the very elect..."? We have so many warnings in the N.T. for a reason. Yet, I find most, even within my own family, have such a lackadaisical attitude thinking that "they" could NEVER be misled
...no, not us! God's grace extends so far PTL !There is one way and one way only to God the Father whom resides is Heaven and that is Christ...Lord and Savior of all who believe...
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Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
It is the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth (John 16:13). HE HAS NOT CHANGED! It is the Holy Spirit who moves on Christians to prophesy and speak words of knowledge.... These gifts of the Spirit listed in 1 Cor 12 have NEVER ceased! They have been in operation since they were given to believers at Pentecost (Acts 2).
But you're telling me that we need mystical knowledge because men these days have never received a prophecy, etc.??? You said that you knew things about people revealed through tarot cards (spirits), and yet, do you reject the legitimate ways that God has given believers to know things about people by His Holy Spirit?
Like so many people these days, you have thrown out the GOOD for the bad. You have thrown out the TRUE for the false. And I would imagine that you are reaping the whirlwind. This is why God has burdened my heart for you!!
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I think we agree on this then.
The need for an explanation is greater for people who see the serpent as Satan. The curse on the serpent came only after its deception with the woman. If we say it was Satan, I would think he already had a curse of sorts on him; and then we also have to ask why God left Satan in the Garden.
The problem with the serpent is that Adam did not exercise his lawful authority over it. Adam also seems remiss to me for failing to act as Eve's covering leaving her open to deception.
The Greek pagans seemed to understand more about the serpent than Christians. Have you seen the caduceus in doctors' offices with the serpent (sometimes two) on the pole? Taming the serpent is crucial. The false serpent must be done away with. The proper serpent must "rise" with healing in its wings. Look at the caduceus. There is a globe at the top. That represents "the sun of righteousness" with healing in its wings as Malachi put it. We also read how the sun rose "for" Jacob. Genesis does not say the sun merely rose. It rose "for" him. His thigh was put out of whack, and that was healed later. Thus Jacob was seen as "the sun" by Joseph and Rachel as "the moon." Rachel is called the "mother of all Israel." So she was too. When Matthew tells us she was weeping for her children, those would have been Jewish children. The Jews were not her children after the flesh; but they were her children in the spirit.
Another "star" arose out of Jacob. He also had the "sun" rise for him. There was a brief period of darkness (spiritually) when Jacob ceased giving Light to Israel and Jesus became that Light.
Does it say the woman's seed would kill the serpent? Or would the serpent's head be crushed? Jesus has not "killed" the devil yet. He defeated the fallen serpent nature in his own body, and he can defeat it in yours and mine; but there is more to be done before "death and hell" are thrown into the Lake of Fire.
And the pigs, being unclean animals, knew how to take such evil out of this world.
If you can see this, why introduce the idea of "the devil" into Genesis?
Let me cite a passage that may or may not belong in the Bible. It's not in all the early manuscripts, so perhaps someone did add it; but I have no problem with it.
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
When I read that, I don't think about picking up physical snakes or drinking physical poisons. I see that as saying Jesus' followers can help him reverse the curse of Genesis. The serpent becomes harmless. Compare that to a passage from Isaiah which I read to mean about how things will be in the Thousand Year Reign.
Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
A very big Amen to that!
Tarot cards @Giuliano ?? Really? I am surprised that you are seemingly so "extra-biblical" yet you seem to be creating your own version kind of, here. If this is something you see nothing wrong with, I would LOVE to have you sit down with one of my sisters...she would have a heck of a story about the occult.
"and yet, do you reject the legitimate ways that God has given believers to know things about people by His Holy Spirit?"
Yes, the holy Spirit has several roles and, IMHO His first and foremost role is to shine a light on men's sin and convict of the world of
Righteousness. Personally, the Bible seems wonderfully compact with every single thing God allows us to know/see (in His own time) things already revealed, yet much misunderstood, NOTHING is to be added to His Word! Not to say that He does not WORK outside His Word because I believe He does all the time! And, this is where I think some of us get caught up in confusion perhaps?
In Him Always
Has the Spirit ever told you about things to come? You cite that passage, so I ask you that. Many people read that verse to mean God is going to reveal deep spiritual truths to them -- while they forget the rest of the verse.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
I am dubious about religious leaders who believe the Spirit of Truth have revealed many deep spiritual truths to them if the same Spirit is unable to tell them anything about earthly matters. Can you explain what is meant by he shall speak what he hears? What or what is the Spirit of Truth hearing from? I hope you know God has many "eyes" which roam the earth. What they see is known immediately in Heaven. You could also say the hear things, and that too is known immediately in Heaven. If you are a saint with your "single eye" in light, Heaven also sees everything you see. If someone does not has his eye in the light, Heaven gets its perspective "from the outside" so to speak.
All I can say is that while many people claim to be religious leaders and to utter prophecies, we can see they are not of God since they utter false things which do not come to pass. The truth is they are linked in to what I called "elementals" earlier. They think they're hearing from God when they're not.
Those elementals are almost identical to the "eyes of God." The major difference is they are not under the discipline of Heaven. They want to operate independently of God. Those elementals can see many things, and often their predictions come true; but they are still limited. They have no access whatsoever to the Third Heaven. They can only guess at what Heaven may be planning. Often they're good guessers, but they're still guessing. They sometimes spy on the saints, hoping to overhear something that may give them clues about the future. I know that's true since I was told I shouldn't know certain things lest I failed to guard my mind and some of the information would get leaked to the wrong "people." Yes, some of them can read minds too.
I urge you to be cautious about this. If you are mistaken, you may pay a price I'd rather not see you pay. I can only advise that if you pray for me, be sure you are praying "for" me and never "against."
I still have the Tarot cards and haven't looked at them in years. My favorite deck was by Waite, the Christian mystic. Several cards have Christian symbolism. Their real significance is based on the major cards which correspond to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. Would it surprise you that there is a "hanged man" card that symbolizes the crucifixion?
Reading Revelation and trying to make that into a book about how to divine the future is as treacherous as using Tarot cards. It starts off saying people should read, hear and then do things -- but people read and try to divine the future. Can you see how that can make people slightly unhinged? Then they sometimes also go off chasing other people's take on it -- completely contrary to what John says to do. How many false prophets have there been over Revelation? Why do people seem so eager to follow them? They crave to know the future, that's why. They don't seem able to live in the present.
As for adding things? I try to be cautious. If "Satan" is not mentioned in Genesis, I try to remember that. If "antichrist" is not mentioned in Revelation, I try to remember that too. I also try to keep the context of things -- as in the "all truth" passage from John. People may want to think that's all about heavenly doctrines; but it surely includes earthly things too. I am glad I was shown where fetuses were being experimented on. I could pray about it. And I found later it got stopped, and I also learned that company did own a building close to the Thames. Was that a sin for me to pray for that? Was it wrong to have it stopped?
Was Ezekiel born of the Spirit? He was called son of man. He could move about in the Spirit like the wind. Compare that to what Jesus told Nicodemus. Yet most Christians read that passage with a preconceived idea of what it means and fail to address the details that don't fit their idea. I think that's subtracting from the Scripture. Men are following an extra-Biblical tradition.
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Little wonder that you are confused over Genesis when you consider the account of creation a allegory/metaphor. God confirmed the literal 6 day creation week when He commanded Israel observe the 7th day.
All of the above as it applies contextually to the individual, and replace as it applies contextually to the institution who is disseminating the character of Antichrist.
And if that institution passes legislation...teaches doctrine...practices... its religion in a manner that replaces Christ in the minds and hearts of its followers, and directly (esoterically) and/or indirectly directs worship to either itself or any being other than Christ, it has indeed replaced Christ as Lord. Such putting anything 'instead of' Christ is idolatry, and is 'against Him'.
When you include the above scenario where that institution promotes itself as the priest, prophet, and king over God's people, then you have the Antichrist.
'Antichrist' comes with several names...and Revelation clearly describes him...or more accurately, it.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
The main problem with the serpent (i.e. devil) is that he is a LIAR. He lied to Eve by twisting God's words and casting doubt on what God had said. "Did God say...?" Then he went on to say what God had NOT said, but he made it sound like what God had said. This is deception, and the devil is a master of deception.
Now, I agree with you that Adam, who was standing right there (according to KJV), should have done something to prevent his wife from disobeying God. We're not told why he didn't. Maybe he couldn't for some reason. We're just not told. But there is one thing that you need to keep in mind. At this point, Adam had not been given authority to rule over his wife. This was part of the curse spoken against Eve--that her husband would rule over her.
Again, please excuse my bluntness, but you seem to be very interested in Adam's authority over his wife, but when it comes to God's authority over you, you're not so interested. God would NOT have you seek knowledge through the occult, but you don't seem to have a problem with it. You say that you haven't used your "Christian" tarot cards lately, but then you imply that they are okay.... I urge you to you burn them, and ask God to forgive you for using evil methods to know things about people.
We are not told anywhere in the Bible that Jacob's thigh was healed. To say this is adding to God's word. Don't get me wrong; I believe that God heals today. Did you get all that info about Jacob and Rachel from the Zohar? You said that you have read some of it. This is NOT God's word. This is Jewish mystical "understanding," not what God has said.
I've never heard of people "divining" the future based on Revelation. This is another stretch. I know that Christians teachers give their interpretations of the prophecies in Revelation, but this is not using occult methods to tell the future. I agree that teachers need to be very careful when interpreting God's word, period.
So, you're concerned about false prophets, but not so much about the occult? This just doesn't make sense to me.
It's not adding to God's word to believe and say that the devil tempted Eve in the Garden. It's a stretch to believe that it wasn't the devil. A whole theology has to be built in order to believe that the creature in the Garden called the serpent was not at least being used by the devil to deceive Eve--that the words he spoke were not the devil's words.
I agree that we need to be careful about preconceived ideas, and yet, what's important is where these ideas come from. Do they come from Bible scholars who use the Bible to interpret the Bible, or use factual historical information.... Or do these ideas come from mystical/occult sources interpreting Bible passages, like the Zohar?
It's interesting that Eve was tempted to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. She was tempted to gain knowledge that was not given to her by God. It was not given to man to know these things. Why did she desire to know about evil, anyway? This is what I see as the main objective of the occult--to know things that God has not shown to humans using methods that He has not given them to use. It's the devil's way, not God's.
Having said that, God does give Christians methods to know things about people using the spiritual gifts that He has given to believers. I mentioned the gift of the word of knowledge earlier. This can also be true with the gift of prophecy. Do you see the difference? Occult methods seek this knowledge apart from God. The gifts of the Spirit are used in accordance with the power of the Holy Spirit and in line with God's will. Occult methods utilize evil spirits to reveal things.
You said something about men not receiving prophecies anymore. I knew as a baby Christian that God gave me the gift of prophecy. I didn't seek this gift even though in 1 Cor. 14:1, Paul tells the Church to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, esp. that we may prophesy. I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding concerning this gift, but when the Holy Spirit moves on me to prophesy, many times, this has involved the Holy Spirit showing me things about people that I didn't know.
Here's an example. One time a Christian neighbor and a friend of hers accompanied my husband and me to church. During the worship time, the Holy Spirit gave me a message for my neighbor's friend, who was a Christian. The Spirit showed me to tell her that she was to avoid the very appearance of evil in her relationship with her boyfriend, or her ministry would be hampered. I didn't know that this was a problem for her, but I delivered the message and didn't think much more about it. That afternoon, my neighbor called me and wanted to know "what in the world" I had said to her friend. I relayed the message, and she told me that her friend had been traveling with her boyfriend and sharing a hotel room. This confirmed what the Holy Spirit had given me to say.
I'm really going out on a limb here. I know that there are Christians on CF who believe that these spiritual gifts ceased with the apostles, and I'm not intending to derail this thread into a cessationist thread. I'm only pointing out the difference between gaining knowledge through gifts of the Holy Spirit vs. occult methods. Actually, I wasn't seeking knowledge about my neighbor's friend. The Holy Spirit moved on me and gave me this knowledge in order to warn this Christian sister that her ministry would be hampered.
Sorry this is so long. I hope that you'll read it all as I've been reading your posts.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I forgot to comment on this. I said that the woman's seed would crush the serpent's head because this is what the Bible says. This is considered a deathblow. As in the verses I quoted, Jesus Christ dealt a deathblow to the devil. Here's the passage I quoted.
Hebrews 2:14-15--Now since the children have flesh and blood in common, Jesus also shared in these, so that through His death He might destroy the one holding the power of death — that is, the Devil — and free those who were held in slavery all their lives by the fear of death.
While the devil has not been completely destroyed YET, for all who believe in Jesus Christ, his power over us has been destroyed, and he will be completely destroyed when he is thrown into the Lake of Fire.
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If it is literal, how was there an evening and a morning before there was the greater light?
I also must ask if Christians should also observe the Sabbath?
I like the broader definition since I think it can mean either replace, instead of, or against. I've no objection to an "institution" exercising spiritual authority if (and it's a big "if") their goal is not to lord it over others forever and ever but rather to teach and encourage them when they are babes in Christ so they mature and no longer need that institution.
Let me repost your post.
They were seeing the brass serpent, but you have them imagining the Rock.
You also failed to explain why it was serpents that attacked them, so the explanation that the brass serpent was made since serpents were attacking still doesn't explain the appearance of serpents in the first place.
The sin in question involved the affair of Baal-Peor. Israel had been brought to the Edenic state at that point. They faced a situation similar to that of Adam and Eve. I would say there were at the 666 point, ready to progress to 777. They failed, and part of the blame has to be put on the machinations of Balaam -- and that entire story is not in the Bible, so why go into it since no one would believe it? They failed, and then the Aaronic priesthood came into being with its sacrifices. Up to that point, God had not asked them for any such sacrifices.
Did John chose his words poorly then by failing to use the word "antichrist" in Revelation? I would say there are many types of antichrist. The villain in Revelation known as the Beast of the Earth could be described that way perhaps, but it's not a strong enough word since many things can be idols for us and thus "antichrist."
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Here are some Bible verses you may what to consider.
Ezekiel 28:11-19--Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
These verses sound like they're talking about the devil, and they say that he was in the Garden of Eden.
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That is actually quite easy to explain. God simply removed His protection, and those natural inhabitants of that land moved in.
It is actually all three beasts of Revelation, the dragon, the beast that rises out of the sea and the one that rose from the earth that reflect antichrist characteristics. I will explain in detail a little later.
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