At least know that some of us have seen by the parables that there is only eternal suffering (in outer darkness) for one specific group of men, and it ain’t who they say - it’s them. I have studied it without the lens of their very bad doctrines and the worst fate, according to the Bible, is for religious hypocrites. It’s kind of plain to see if you don’t read the parables through the lens of the idols of doctrine.I'm not your son, junior. And couldn't care less how horny your children were. But, yes, I am ready for you to meet your maker. For myself, I'm ready for my existence to cease - without the desperate, craven need to think I will be eating my grandmas cookies again in some heaven I can only attain by worshipping a god so insecure and needy that it has to demand worship under the threat of eternal suffering.
But do tell me again about your gods great expression of love...... while he holds a gun to your head.
If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Not an answer to how productive and prolific you are. But I understand you wanting to not care about standards that reveal your folly.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Agreed. It is a contradiction that an all-loving God would also inflict unending punishment. This is worth its own thread. And there are probably a few already about it.I can only attain by worshipping a god so insecure and needy that it has to demand worship under the threat of eternal suffering.
But do tell me again about your gods great expression of love...... while he holds a gun to your head.
In short, the notion of eternal suffering of humans is not in Scripture. In the Garden of Eden, there are 2 trees. One tree is the tree of life. God forbid us to eat from the other tree. This is our basic choice. God wants us to choose life.
Many like you choose death.
It is sad and unnecessary but God will respect your choice. Don't worry about that Gaffer.
I do believe such myths in Christendom as "eternal suffering" has kept many from repenting and turning to God. I can dig up a video, if you like, that explains there will come a time where eternal consequences of our choices will be imposed. The consequence is one and down, not the imposition of it. Those who are saved will not be given glorified every day thereafter; they will be resurrected once and done.
Hope this helps.
Well, I have 5 grandchildren. Seems my kids don't think the vagina is a clown car......
Agreed. But clearly the concept not being in scripture hasn't stopped thousands of Christians from screaming in my face about it. Guess it's another thing a lot of Christians are confused about. Probably explains the thousands of sects.
Whether eternal life is better than Knowledge deserves its own thread as well. For me, if the choice is between spending eternity with the bigoted, hateful Christians I know or having the gift of Knowledge - that's an easy choice. Contrary to the concept of eternal life, I see no downside in having complete Knowledge.
Lapidem
Active Member
Doesn't need any thread. It's a very clear expose of the ridiculousness of the defacto Christian doctrine and a huge expose of millions of so-called Christians who are simply pious misguided individuals all revelling in their delusion that they have a golden ticket and everyone else will burn. If only they had a couple more brain cells and a good dose of humility they would see that their entire ideology is a complete shambles. Such is the power of psychological conditioning sadly.
No. God wants to remain God and the one in power hence he forbade Adam and Eve from eating of the tree that would give them all the knowledge. That's the mark of a dictator, one who seeks to have power over others, one who wishes to exploit others. There are those in this world who have the power of the Philosopher's Stone, they enjoy total healing of their bodies and long extended life plus all the other advantages (all recounted in the Bible). But they don't want everyone else having the same power so they keep the sacred knowledge to themselves. They could free all humanity from their suffering, they could abolish the need for greedy and wicked pharmaceuticals. They could free us all from all disease and illness and early death. Your God is no different. He's a more advanced being than us but clearly either not all-powerful or not all-loving. He's happy to create us in his own image, a kind of pathetic weak vulnerable fickle copy, but one without the sacred knowledge. He wants to be the top dog. He's not going to share that power and ability with us. I see much similarity here with the depiction of the self-styled God King Xerxes in the film "300". All he wanted was for everyone else to fall to their knees and worship him and he promised all manner of riches.
And FWIW the story of the Garden of Eden is allegorical not literal as is much of Genesis but unless you have the "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" you will remain totally blind to the true meaning of the texts. It's a shame so many pious Christians don't have those eyes. Jesus did warn them, but they remain un-humble and in darkness concerning "the mysteries of the kingdom" that only the disciples were told about.
There is no death. This is the perpetual lie of the Christian psychological indoctrination. None of us can die because we are all made of the same universal energy and it can neither be created nor destroyed. We will continue to be constantly recycled as we have been for the past billions of years since the universe started. Your ideology is founded on scaremongering, just as the wicked vaccine and drug industry is by the pharmaceuticals. Get thee behind me. You lie. There is no death. There is only constant change.
bbyrd009
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i think some of that applies, only for all times, in that a term gets kinda dumbed down by the lazier linguistic types, ya
but definitions also just tend to drift, like "agnostic" for instance, which to many believers now means "not sure if there is a God or not"
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No, not their entire ideology, just a minor error in their eschatology.
The patriarchs did not use their brain cells to reason the Creator, he revealed himself. Do you get that? The Creator revealed himself to his children.
Lapidem
Active Member
The story of the patriarchs is allegorical not literal. Do you get that? It's not supposed to be taken literally.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
LOL. Because you deny God exists, you cannot acknowledge that God reveals himself to his select. God revealed himself to me in a supernatural experience. So, no human argument will surpass the witness of my testimony.
I used to be ignorant, like you, but now I KNOW.
Lapidem
Active Member
Your explanation of what you experienced is wholly against biblical text hence you are misguided. It's a poor crutch and one used by numerous Christians because other people can't refute it. It's rather childish in all honesty. I would humour someone who said they'd actually met Santa Claus and that I couldn't refute their experience but in the case of pious Christians I don't because of the utter hypocrisy involved.
Your Bible clearly states over and over and over that God has no favourites, that nobody gets special treatment. Thus those Christians saying they had a special experience or visitation or whatever are simply self-deluding themselves. According to the bible no-one gets special treatment.
Nice try, no cigar!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Lapidem
Active Member
I just told you
"Your Bible clearly states over and over and over that God has no favourites, that nobody gets special treatment. Thus those Christians saying they had a special experience or visitation or whatever are simply self-deluding themselves. According to the bible no-one gets special treatment."
Yeah, that's pretty lame. A lot of the people I have met that claim a god personally revealed itself to them are in mental institutions - with some god telling them to kill their kids, etc. Why shouldn't I give your claim the same truth value as theirs?
And why is it that when Christians have their ideology challenged and/or refuted, the last refuge is always "Well, my god done told me..."
It really is just giving up on being able to support claims.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are quoting yourself as an authority rather than the actual authority. Nothing you claim counters what I wrote.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit will guide you in all truth. And God will call. Many are called but few are chosen. This means exclusive, not all.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Pretty lame smear campaign, to dismiss billions of witnesses on the grounds that a very small % make the claim that are impugned.
Your standard is designed to be impossible to meet. Classic atheist tactic to define a winning argument.
Jesus teaches that we do not have to rely on our own virtue. Guess what? Just because a woman was a prostitution does not mean she cannot have 20/20 vision.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I meant to get back to this early and must have missed you conceding this point multiple times. Let's flush this out.
Walking in the woods and happening on a book (only) suggests a writer? How do you connect the book to the writer and why is this connection merely a suggestion?
Let me suggest that a book is objective evidence of a writer, a mind who communicates in symbolic language (the letters symbolizing meaning). The symbols are not randomly arranged but there is an order to it: the letters make up words; the words make up sentences - which express a complete thought; and the sentences make up paragraphs; the book itself is arranged in order of chapters.
Reinforcing this conclusion is the objective evidence of the book - The structure, manufactured materials, paper binding and cover. Even if no words were on the pages, the existence of the structure of the book implies the existence of a book maker. The non-random order of the pages, binding and cover materials is not a result of natural phenomena.
The significance of the non-random order of the symbols is objective evidence of a sentient, sovereign intelligence. The organized use of the symbols is not a result of natural phenomena. The only possible explanation for the existence of a book in the woods is that a writer exists!
If there is doubt, if there is any epistemological uncertainty about the relationship between the existence of a book to the existence of an intelligent mind who produced this book, speak now or forever hold your peace. The relationship between book and writer is not merely a suggestion but one proves the existence of the other in no uncertain terms. Isn't that accurate Mr. Atheist?
Lapidem
Active Member
I'm quoting the Bible. I guess you don't deem it an authority. God has no partiality, no favouritism. No special treatment.
Acts 10:34-36 Then Peter replied, “I see very clearly that God shows no favouritism
Romans 2:11 For God does not show favouritism.
Deuteronomy 10:17 For the Lord your God is the God of gods and Lord of lords. He is the great God, the mighty and awesome God, who shows no partiality and cannot be bribed.
Job 34:19 who shows no partiality to princes, nor regards the rich more than the poor, for they are all the work of his hands
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
James 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Ephesians 6:9 Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.
2 Chronicles 19:4-7 Be careful what you do, for there is no injustice with the Lord our God, or partiality or taking bribes.”
James 3:17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.
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