If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?

[Wrangler]

As stated before we are drowning in evidence that there simply can not exist the Christian concept of an all-powerful AND all-loving God. We see the evidence all around us every day. To ignore it is to delude ourselves and exercise self-denial.

Projecting your own delusion. It is silly in a trial to deny billions of witnesses. Utter foolishness.

 

[Wrangler]

What people choose to think or believe they have experienced in no way equates to fact.

LOL It certainly does!

Again, in a trial witness testimony is considered acceptable fact/based evidence. Other than drowning in all the evidence, there is no evidence, you say. Wow!

 

[Lapidem]

Projecting your own delusion. It is silly in a trial to deny billions of witnesses. Utter foolishness.

That's simply not how law works. The witnesses need to be of reliable standing and present coherent accounts. By your silly standards we could call a million Flat Earth Believers to the stand and thereby prove that the world is flat ! Sooner or later you have to have the courage and humility to accept that you have no proof of anything and that all you believe has been handed to you by other humans. The notion of a God, the notion of Jesus, the Bible and so on. All from humans. It's a really clever system of behavioural control, very effective. It is however possible to come out of it but for most people piousness and pride obstruct that process. No-one likes to admit they've been had.

 

[Jim B]

That's simply not how law works. The witnesses need to be of reliable standing and present coherent accounts. By your silly standards we could call a million Flat Earth Believers to the stand and thereby prove that the world is flat ! Sooner or later you have to have the courage and humility to accept that you have no proof of anything and that all you believe has been handed to you by other humans. The notion of a God, the notion of Jesus, the Bible and so on. All from humans. It's a really clever system of behavioural control, very effective. It is however possible to come out of it but for most people piousness and pride obstruct that process. No-one likes to admit they've been had.

Clearly you are unable to hear from God. You exhibit the epitome of spiritual deafness. That is a tragedy of the highest magnitude!

 

[Lapidem]

Clearly you are unable to hear from God. You exhibit the epitome of spiritual deafness. That is a tragedy of the highest magnitude!

I don't hear voices no. Only the voice of reason and truth.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

The reason they believe this is because they received guidance from a spiritual source. It is possible that this message came from God, which is why they are convinced of its validity. Additionally, the Bible confirms that they are unified with Christ and Christ is united with them, so they view themselves as possessing a divine presence. Their words align with biblical teachings, so while you may view their inability to predict the future as nonsensical, they believe that ultimately, you will be accountable before God. This is a truth emphasized in the Bible, and it is the truth that they cannot predict what will happen tomorrow by themselves.

 

[Wrangler]

That's simply not how law works.

That is exactly how law works! Witnesses are used to determine a verdict even when there is only circumstantial evidence every day.

On the subject you abhor, you want to invent a different standard, designed to be impossible to prove what you do not want.

The witnesses need to be of reliable standing and present coherent accounts. By your silly standards we could call a million Flat Earth Believers to the stand and thereby prove that the world is flat !

And what evidence is there to the contrary? See how you move the goal posts?

We are talking about the existence of God. A God who has chosen to reveal himself to some but not others. And, those who believe in God are in the vast majority. No society was ever established on the principle of atheism.

 

[Lapidem]

The reason they believe this is because they received guidance from a spiritual source.

Unproven. They choose to think or believe that. This doesn't make it fact. Many people think they have received guidance or messages from spirits or ghosts or dead people and all manner of other experiences they like to call supernatural. The fact STILL REMAINS that no-one on the planet came out of a womb knowing the name of any deity or being aware of any deity. Everyone has been pre-conditioned
(indoctrinated) in those concepts by other humans. Thus when people experience something they immediately assign it to the things they have been indoctrinated with.

It is possible that this message came from God, which is why they are convinced of its validity.

Lots of things are possible. It's supremely dangerous to allow other humans to indoctrinate you to the extent that you set aside critical thinking and rationality. Once they have become indoctrinated people become fearful of even contemplating other possibilities. They start to believe that if they consider that God may not exist, that it's all a very clever control system that's been running for eons, that they will suddenly be struck down by a thunderbolt. That's the power of such systems. However a key telling sign that you have been indoctrinated is indeed that fear to start thinking critically, the fear to challenge what you've been taught.

Additionally, the Bible confirms that they are unified with Christ and Christ is united with them, so they view themselves as possessing a divine presence.

Their indoctrination stems from the Bible so using it a any kind of proof is just a false cyclical system. Only solid evidence, critical thinking can determine the truth.

Their words align with biblical teachings, so while you may view their inability to predict the future as nonsensical, they believe that ultimately, you will be accountable before God. This is a truth emphasized in the Bible, and it is the truth that they cannot predict what will happen tomorrow by themselves.

Not sure where you've picked up this issue about predicting the future from. But again, you can't use the Bible as proof of validity for anything. You need real facts and evidence.

 

[Lapidem]

And what evidence is there to the contrary?

Well that's precisely my point and you've unwittingly used the correct word EVIDENCE ! Not subjective witness testimony and hearsay. Actual concrete evidence. And of course on the issue of whether thee world is flat or round we have tons of concrete evidence that totally trumps any subjective testimony from Flat Earth believers. Your personal beliefs don't count as facts or solid evidence. Your beliefs are subjective to yourself and they are formed by how indoctrinated you have been by churches and other indoctrinated people.

We are talking about the existence of God. A God who has chosen to reveal himself to some but not others.

You are talking about YOUR concept of God which again is influenced by your level of indoctrination by other humans. Billions of people believe in different concepts of God or concepts of totally other deities. Also, once again, according to the Bible all are treated equally so no, the God described in the Bible doesn't magically appear to some and not others. Such would be totally unfair, unjust and not in character with the biblical concept of God.

And, those who believe in God are in the vast majority. No society was ever established on the principle of atheism.

No you're wrong here and it's poor show to try and claim rights to all concepts of "God". Only just over 2 billion people believe in your concept of God (Christianity). Other cultures and countries believe in other deities. But again numbers of people being indoctrinated from childhood into religious beliefs doesn't prove anything except the effectiveness of indoctrination systems. This is critical thinking which you seem to struggle with. To be fair I don't want to crush your belief system and current state of spiritual awareness. You can only come to the point of challenging what you've been indoctrinated with in your own space and time. It can't be forced. Lots of people are vulnerable and insecure and need a comfort blanket to cope with life instead of facing up to it's harsh truths. It's up to them to drop the blanket and grow when they are ready to do so.

 

[Jim B]

Unproven. They choose to think or believe that. This doesn't make it fact. Many people think they have received guidance or messages from spirits or ghosts or dead people and all manner of other experiences they like to call supernatural. The fact STILL REMAINS that no-one on the planet came out of a womb knowing the name of any deity or being aware of any deity. Everyone has been pre-conditioned
(indoctrinated) in those concepts by other humans. Thus when people experience something they immediately assign it to the things they have been indoctrinated with.


Lots of things are possible. It's supremely dangerous to allow other humans to indoctrinate you to the extent that you set aside critical thinking and rationality. Once they have become indoctrinated people become fearful of even contemplating other possibilities. They start to believe that if they consider that God may not exist, that it's all a very clever control system that's been running for eons, that they will suddenly be struck down by a thunderbolt. That's the power of such systems. However a key telling sign that you have been indoctrinated is indeed that fear to start thinking critically, the fear to challenge what you've been taught.


Their indoctrination stems from the Bible so using it a any kind of proof is just a false cyclical system. Only solid evidence, critical thinking can determine the truth.



Not sure where you've picked up this issue about predicting the future from. But again, you can't use the Bible as proof of validity for anything. You need real facts and evidence.

I feel very, very sorry for you! I was once a cynical unbeliever like yourself, but God, in His mercy, saved me, showed me His reality, and gave me the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth. You have a choice: continue in your unbelief and deny yourself the blessings and truths of God Himself, or surrender to Him and be born again into a new life of love, hope, and trust.

 

[bbyrd009]

Additionally, the Bible confirms that they are unified with Christ and Christ is united with them

im curious which "they" you speak of here? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Their indoctrination stems from the Bible

Ha! as if

 

[Lapidem]

I feel very, very sorry for you! I was once a cynical unbeliever like yourself, but God, in His mercy, saved me, showed me His reality, and gave me the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth. You have a choice: continue in your unbelief and deny yourself the blessings and truths of God Himself, or surrender to Him and be born again into a new life of love, hope, and trust.

I feel very very sorry for you. I've been in the reverse situation to you, was indoctrinated early on, was "born again", spent years with the churches, various denominations, played in the church band and so on. All seemed right and real at the time but of course I was younger and more impressionable and easily duped. Hadn't learned to think critically and face the harsh truths of life. I later managed to escape the programming, had the humility and courage to challenge what I had been taught, learned to think for myself, learned some of the secrets hidden in the Bible which indicated that the Church is deceiving people about its meaning/interpretation and I began a new spiritual journey in new directions unshackled and unblinkered from Christian dogma and doctrine. I see you're trapped in the same way I was. Only by casting off pride and piousness can you start to see the truth and escape the spell.

 

[Wrangler]

Well that's precisely my point and you've unwittingly used the correct word EVIDENCE ! Not subjective witness testimony and hearsay.

Witness testimony IS evidence - and it is objective evidence. Statistics - objective evidence - such as polls - are formed from witness testimony, e.g., 4 out of 5 dentists recommend Trident gum.

 

[Wrangler]

You are talking about YOUR concept of God

No. We are talking about the existence of God. It has nothing to do with my concepts.

 

[Wrangler]

No you're wrong here and it's poor show to try and claim rights to all concepts of "God". Only just over 2 billion people believe in your concept of God (Christianity). Other cultures and countries believe in other deities.

I know you are desperate to make this personal and are hopelessly tied to moving the goal posts. Read again what I wrote.

We are talking about the existence of God. A God who has chosen to reveal himself to some but not others. And, those who believe in God are in the vast majority. No society was ever established on the principle of atheism.

No mention was to my conception of God. Simply those who believe in God - of whatever conception - is in the vast majority. In addition to that, No society was ever established on the principle of atheism.

 

[Gottservant]

[...]

No you're wrong here and it's poor show to try and claim rights to all concepts of "God". Only just over 2 billion people believe in your concept of God (Christianity). Other cultures and countries believe in other deities.

Yes, but only one God has paid the price.

 

[bbyrd009]

I feel very very sorry for you. I've been in the reverse situation to you, was indoctrinated early on, was "born again", spent years with the churches, various denominations, played in the church band and so on. All seemed right and real at the time but of course I was younger and more impressionable and easily duped. Hadn't learned to think critically and face the harsh truths of life. I later managed to escape the programming, had the humility and courage to challenge what I had been taught, learned to think for myself, learned some of the secrets hidden in the Bible which indicated that the Church is deceiving people about its meaning/interpretation and I began a new spiritual journey in new directions unshackled and unblinkered from Christian dogma and doctrine. I see you're trapped in the same way I was. Only by casting off pride and piousness can you start to see the truth and escape the spell.

well, lotta ppl prefer the deception though, i guess

 

[Episkopos]

The

The Holy Spirit told me that people like Enoch are hypocrites and heretics. It’s the correct interpretation because I was guided by the Holy Spirit like he said would happen.

You are inspired!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are inspired!

Lol. The very first paragraph of his first post is his main thrust. And it’s a severe thrust. And no one has been able to answer that paragraph sufficiently. I read the first two pages last night. Remember that show, might have been called what’s my name or…what’s my line? It always began with a few people saying, I’m the real Steve Bailey, no, IM the real Steve Bailey, etc. And a person had to guess for prizes, which one was telling the truth?
But past the first few posts of the thread, the thrust is lost, dissipated by Christians, who don’t know the answer.