If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?

[bbyrd009]

My God man, you are blind! Billions of people testify that God transformed their lives. Their changed lives IS the evidence you are drowning in! the Bible puts it this way, their body is the temple of God.

Billions of witnesses testify to this. Billions. No evidence exists?! You are drowning in evidence.

you are mostly deceiving yourself here, i guess, no, that is not "objective evidence" of the existence of God, and i think you are also engaged in a fool's errand
you might meditate a bit more on empty room for a holy of holies, and a Name that is incomprehensible
imo

 

[Wrangler]

you are mostly deceiving yourself here, i guess, no, that is not "objective evidence" of the existence of God

Well, we disagree on who is deceiving themselves about what.

You want to be, both, the prosecutor AND the jury. Any objective person would consider the prosecutions case a joke if their position was the Defendant does not exist but his lawyer parades billions of Witnesses who Testify the Defendant does exist AND does so much for them.

 

[Wrangler]

you are mostly deceiving yourself here, i guess, no, that is not "objective evidence" of the existence of God

Again, you are drowning in objective evidence of God. Consider the fine tuning constants. For instance, the energy of atoms should have dropped off to zero long ago, making life impossible. Instead the energy dropped perfectly to ~1/137, which is found everywhere and is dimensionless.

Not that this has anything to do with Atheists inability to discern the Bible correctly. It does show how Atheists must keep changing the goal posts.

To explain the existence of all this fine tuning AND deny a fine tuner is troubling to Atheist physicists for good reason! I've said it for years, I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist.

 

[Lapidem]

You want to be, both, the prosecutor AND the jury. Any objective person would consider the prosecutions case a joke if their position was the Defendant does not exist but his lawyer parades billions of Witnesses who Testify the Defendant does exist AND does so much for them.

If there was no defendant there would not be a trial! You'd be laughed out of court, and rightly so.

So nothing has changed here. You still haven't stumped up one single shred of objective direct evidence for your claims of a Christian God.
You claim to be special, to have had special treatment despite the Bible clearly saying that your God has no favourites, that all are treated the same. You claim that the supernatural exists but the reality is there are things in the universe that we don't yet understand. So it's all natural, all nature, it doesn't need any spooky nonsense attaching to it.

I ask myself a simple question. Would someone who had seen God, had a special undeniable revelation be wasting their time sitting in their pyjamas in their bedroom making silly posts on a forum? No I seriously doubt it. With incontrovertible proof of God's existence they'd be out and about probably abroad helping the sick, those fleeing their country due to war or disaster and so on, as Jesus would.
The truth is you're just another human desperately looking to justify your existence, trying to fill a void because you can't face the reality of the universe and your tiny insignificant place within it. You need to feel wanted, special, somehow above others and religious piety fills that void. It's comfortable, you have the support of lots of other people engaging in the same self-denial, it's self-fulfilling to the point that people then perpetuate the system and bring others into it. It's a free world, you can believe in whatever helps you get through the day. No skin off my back as they say provided you don't impact others with your chosen beliefs, but there's the rub. Religion DOES impact others, it impacts laws and attitudes to others. The world would be better without religions.

Nothing that religion offers as a system of societal benefit can't be equally achieved simply by people being good humans. Humanism.

But it's not about giving societal benefit. It's about control. Religion is simply a system of societal control, to condition the masses to be pacifists, to not turn against their rulers who simply laugh at them. At the same time it exploits vulnerable people, relieves them of their money much of which goes up the chain.

The works that contribute to the Bible are remarkable and contain many important secrets. Secrets of healing, immortality and so on. The Church does not teach these secrets, most of it's pastors are likely totally clueless about the secrets as are 99.9% of the flock. They will never come to the truth because they are shackled by the system, blinkered to all avenues except that prescribed for them. They can't even concede that they might have been duped and mislead. That's pride, piousness, self-denial.

The mind should always be open. Always free to think objectively and critically. Never placed in a box, never shackled, never led by reins and a bit like a horse.

You are shackled from head to toe. Shackles of your own choosing. You are not free. You are owned by a system of control. There you will stay until you can lay aside your pride.

 

[Lapidem]

To explain the existence of all this fine tuning AND deny a fine tuner is troubling to Atheist physicists for good reason! I've said it for years, I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist.

Still making the same mistake. The fallacy that if there exists a "fine tuner" or creator that it must bee the Christian concept of God.

It's a ridiculous belief for so many reasons. The "fine tuning" is very far from perfect. Very far from being all-loving. The most likely explanation is that life on Earth was designed simply by more advanced beings than us. Beings that likely have weaknesses just like us, that likely are a mix of malevolence and benevolence like us. They set a few things going on Earth, seeded some DNA and then left and let the Earth evolve by itself for millions of years not caring about the immense suffering of life that would ensue. Likely a huge experiment.

Either way we are all trapped and long since imprisoned and controlled by those now ruling the planet who have long since worked out how to control humans. Through dictatorship, the illusion of democracy and the implementation of psychological systems of control (religion).

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, we disagree on who is deceiving themselves about what.

well wadr that is because healthy debate is beyond you, and you have an overwhelming need to be correct at any cost, imo

You want to be, both, the prosecutor AND the jury

whatever

Any objective person would consider the prosecutions case a joke if their position was the Defendant does not exist but his lawyer parades billions of Witnesses who Testify the Defendant does exist AND does so much for them.

no, they would not, and your biased witnesses would not even be allowed to testify i dont think, lawyer-man, and i am a believer in God ok
i equally doubt that any flat-earthers would be allowed to testify, and imo you are both in the same category, that of "obviously deceived"

now i do understand why you need a god that "existss" so badly, and also surely why you think Jesus is God despite the voluminous Scripture that says otherwise, and i dont mean to be misunderstood here, ok; your beliefs are your own, and you have every right to them, but you cannot back them up with proof nor Scripture, and all of your eidence is, firmly, subjective, regardless of how many billions of ppl might agree with you, sorry about that

 

[bbyrd009]

Again, you are drowning in objective evidence of God

you say this with confidence only bc you insist upon your own definition of "objective," which does not comport with reality, and is not ever going to.

 

[bbyrd009]

Again, you are drowning in objective evidence of God. Consider the fine tuning constants. For instance, the energy of atoms should have dropped off to zero long ago, making life impossible. Instead the energy dropped perfectly to ~1/137, which is found everywhere and is dimensionless.

Not that this has anything to do with Atheists inability to discern the Bible correctly. It does show how Atheists must keep changing the goal posts.

To explain the existence of all this fine tuning AND deny a fine tuner is troubling to Atheist physicists for good reason! I've said it for years, I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist.

i think you might not be understanding that i would even agree with you, as far as there being a God is concerned; however "existence" implies subjective evidence, and im sure scientists have some theory for the atom thing, making your point moot, see

squares have equilateral sides, and four corners. Circles are round. These are objective descriptions, bc no one disagrees with them, see?

also i notice that you are not addressing my posts, but merely tagging me to reiterate yourself, albeit in a similar vein--a common tactic of believers--and no offense but i just have better things to do, ok?

that you have to resort to such esoteric knowledge as "atoms" really belies your position imo, not that you apparently care any anyway, Wrangler. I think you should be ashamed for trying to make God "Exist," personally

 

[Wrangler]

If there was no defendant there would not be a trial! You'd be laughed out of court, and rightly so.

Further proof that God must exist.

 

[Wrangler]

You still haven't stumped up one single shred of objective direct evidence for your claims of a Christian God.

I've presented billions of direct evidence.

 

[Wrangler]

I ask myself a simple question. Would someone who had seen God, had a special undeniable revelation be wasting their time sitting in their pyjamas in their bedroom making silly posts on a forum? No I seriously doubt it.

What would you have them do?

 

[Wrangler]

Nothing that religion offers as a system of societal benefit can't be equally achieved simply by people being good humans. Humanism.

I once that as you do. Evidence you worship a false IDOL is those societies that were based on humanist ideologies no longer exist. See the Soviet Union. A perfect demonstration of humanist principles - outlawing God - rightfully called The Evil Empire by President Ronald Reagan.

It is estimated that 30 million souls were murdered by this humanist regime. Of course, you will deny all evidence that does not support your false conclusion though, right?

 

[Wrangler]

Still making the same mistake. The fallacy that if there exists a "fine tuner" or creator that it must bee the Christian concept of God.

Not at all. Just chopping down one fallacy at a time. God exists and there is mountains of evidence, everywhere you look BUT you must choose to ask, see and knock. It takes such humility to get off God's throne and let him sit there as lord of your life.

 

[Wrangler]

your biased witnesses would not even be allowed to testify i dont think

LOL. Guess what? Every witness ever is biased. Their testimony helps one side and hurts another side. It is ONLY when the evidence produces a bias, might a wise judgment be reached.

 

[Wrangler]

you say this with confidence only bc you insist upon your own definition of "objective," which does not comport with reality, and is not ever going to.

Not at all. God has transformed billions of lives. It does not depend on me alone or you alone. IF it did it would be subjective evidence.

It is funny to see how you must move the goal post with nearly every reply. Putting aside the evidence of people, the objective evidence of God is seen in his creation. Walking in the woods and happening upon a book is objective evidence of a writer.

The universe fine tuning is objective evidence of a fine tuner.

DNA, a language written in molecules of existence in 4-dimensions, is objective evidence of a DNA code writer. Only the blind cannot see the mountains of evidence. Praise God!

 

[Wrangler]

i think you might not be understanding that i would even agree with you, as far as there being a God is concerned; however "existence" implies subjective evidence, and im sure scientists have some theory for the atom thing, making your point moot, see

An alternative theory speculated to exist is automatically given supremacy, making my point moot?! Wow.

That's a mighty low standard of proof you allow for the alternative hypothesis. You cannot believe what you write has any intellectual integrity.

 

[Wrangler]

that you have to resort to such esoteric knowledge as "atoms"

ROFLMAO.

Every kid in American learns about atoms. Next, you'll be telling me water or bread are esoteric terms AND by invoking such esoteric terms, it automatically invalidates any argument that uses them.

 

[Lapidem]

I once that as you do. Evidence you worship a false IDOL is those societies that were based on humanist ideologies no longer exist. See the Soviet Union. A perfect demonstration of humanist principles - outlawing God - rightfully called The Evil Empire by President Ronald Reagan.

Good grief it gets worse and worse. Your beliefs are surreal. The Soviet Union was a Communist state. A dictatorship. A one party system. Humanism? You must be joking. I thought subversion of education was bad in the USA but I've obviously underestimated things!

It is estimated that 30 million souls were murdered by this humanist regime. Of course, you will deny all evidence that does not support your false conclusion though, right?

It's not nor ever was humanist. It was Communist. It's starting to become clear why you're in such a muddled state and thus so easily duped by religion.

 

[Lapidem]

ROFLMAO.

Every kid in American learns about atoms. Next, you'll be telling me water or bread are esoteric terms AND by invoking such esoteric terms, it automatically invalidates any argument that uses them.

The use of childish emoticons further reveals who we are dealing with here. Getting to the point where it's not worth the effort. You're going to waste years of your life being duped by the system. You're simply not ready or equipped to critical think.

 

[Wrangler]

The Soviet Union was a Communist state. A dictatorship.

Yes. 100% based on humanist principles. 100% void of Christianity, which was outlawed. You cannot invoke a guiding principle only to complete abandon it when it is shown to fail - but only in practice, not theory. I like humanism, in theory. In practice, look the the Soviets river of blood.