If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?

[Lapidem]

And that is wrong because you are distorting what Free Will means to suit your ideology. IF man has no Free Will, our entire system of justice is based on a flawed premise, right?

Well obviously not. The presence of a justice system itself highlights that there is no free will. For if all actions were permitted freely, theen there would be no need for justice.

Was there a justice system in place when your God chose to murder every Egyptian child overnight? Or was he actually FREE to do as he pleased?

Was there a justice system in place when your God chose to murder everyone in the world and every animal? Or was he actually FREE to do as he pleased?

See the difference?

Free will means FREE will. The ability to do anything you want without challenge, without anyone contesting your actions, without anyone taking any action against you.

 

[Lapidem]

i would say that you have seized upon that bc it seems right to you, but parents let their children screw up sometimes so that they might learn what doing the wrong thing manifests.

You're becoming quite surreal now. Are you genuinely suggesting that a loving parent would deliberately allow their 5yr old daughter to be sexually abused/raped ?!! And pray tell, what is the 5yr old girl doing wrong that warrants learning some kind of lesson?!!
You need to think this through again imho. What you are suggesting is very sick.

And you can decide that there is no God, or that you are mad at Him for that if you like, but that does not necessarily make that true, right?

I haven't decided either of those things. I've simply realised that the defacto Christian concept of god is an utterly ludicrous myth.

It only means that you have decided upon some fact, “there patently isnt,” that you cannot prove even to yourself. It makes you into God iow, in your own mind

The proof that there is no all-powerful AND all-loving entity is all around us with examples like the sexual abuse of innocent kids.

 

[Lapidem]

so i say again that the notion of an all loving and all powerful parent is also absurd, to a fourteen year old, and Yah makes plain that He does not desire that kind of worship anyway.

I haven't suggested the notion of an all-powerful and all-loving parent. However it's quite possible for a parent to be extremely loving and benevolent and such a person would never stand by and watch their child be raped. They would take action.

 

[Lapidem]

to this i would say that the genre of writing is not being understood very well, as there were no actual genocides

So you don't believe the Bible recounts The Great Flood?

 

[Lapidem]

You have made an Appeal to Probability with no foundation. What you write is not true, this I know. I know this because God called me. I am a witness.

Nope. I've made a rational judgment based on the FACTS that hidden secrets of alchemy exist in the Bible and no church I have ever attended whether Methodist, Evangelical, CofE, Anglican or House Church has ever revealed or mentioned those secrets to their flocks.

You are witness only to your own psychological machinations which are shaped by your weaknesses, just like those of people who believe they have seen ghosts, people who believe they have been abducted by aliens, people who believe horoscopes and astrology and so on. Cognitive Bias.

 

[Lapidem]

but you have no evidence that God is turning a “blind eye” to anything wadr; you have just decided that You Have a Better Idea, yes?

Surely the plain evidence is that it IS happening. I'm not all-powerful so I can't personally stop the worldwide crime of child sexual abuse. If the Christian go exists then he IS powerful enough to stop it. But clearly he doesn't do so.

As the Bible says "By their actions you shall know them"

I assess any god by his/her actions or lack of action

 

[Lapidem]

The love of my life was molested by her father, head deacon of a baptist church, and her brother, so dont think i am not empathetic here, but as you say what good does suing do? Should i expose him/them? Trust me, he is paying in spades right now anyway. These ppl, that perpetrate these evils, they do not get away scott free like you might imagine, ok

It's not the abuser I care about. It's the abused like the love of your life. Nothing that happens to the abuser heals or changes the damage done to the abused. If the Christian God existed he could prevent this from happening. He doesn't do so.

 

[Lapidem]

well, to your mind maybe, but again that does not make it true.
the fact that you do not understand a thing does not make that thing impossible, or even irrelevant
just means that you dont understand it right

Sure. But here's a thing. I don't worship Hitler or Pol Pott. Possibly I don't understand who those people really were but I can only act as I have been created to act. If Hitler or Pol Pott wanted people like me to revere them then they would have had to act in ways that I felt were worth of that reverence. Since they wilfully murdered lots of people, I didn't deem them worthy of reverence. I hold the same true for any entity that wilfully murders innocent people.

So if there exists a god of the kind Christianity peddles (which there patently doesn't) and that god wants me to love him and worship him and give my life over to him, he already knows that he has to demonstrate the kind of behaviours that I value and he must have known that before he made me.

 

[Lapidem]

Total surrender and submission. His way is the only way.

Tyranny. Authoritarianism. Dictatorship. He can go jump off a cliff of his own making. No loving god would offer such a proposition. That you can't see this is sad indeed. Your god does not exist. You've been had. What you describe is nothing like the nature of the real "god".

Your posts wreak of pride, presuming to be in a position to judge your maker. He will judge you and his judgment is the one that counts.

He can judge all he likes. However if he doesn't display the behaviours that he expects of his subjects then he's a hypocrite and a despot. He can vent his wrath and anger like a child all he likes and abuse his power to murder anyone who stands up against him but that won't change who and what he is. Killing is either acceptable or it is not. God kills, frequently according to the Bible and with reckless abandon. For him to decree Thou Shalt Not Kill is therefore untenable.

 

[Lapidem]

well fwiw i will tell you that the Bible is very plain…or at least it isnt very hard to decipher “religion, bad,” and that the Established Church is firmly “in the world” and you should leave it, so while you might discount or dismiss the Bible, i would say that you are mostly denying yourself a valuable resource, just like most Christian believers are doing.

You've misunderstood I think. I shun the church and left it long ago knowing it now to be false and deceitful and bad for one's health.
I DO NOT dismiss the Bible as I have iterated throughout this thread. I know it contains many important secrets and facts needed for true life, health and longevity.

Doesnt mean that you cant go on to faithfully serve anyway, and if arguing with other gnostics is working for you right now then go for it imo, but i cant think of a more useless exercise than to find some other gnostics who believe exactly the opposite of what i do to debate with lol i mean what is the point? Are you masochistic?

Arguing with people trapped by religious indoctrination is not "useless". It can ignite the vital spark of intuition and wonder needed for a person to eventually escape their prison. Not all obviously, some are well beyond such help, but some can definitely be helped.

 

[Lapidem]

Again that is the Atheist axiom, which is false. YHWH abandoned this world to Satan. Satan is the god of this world. The suffering is not caused by YHWH but allowed because it is a fallen world.

This is the defacto Christian axiom which is false. Your God took from humans the vital substance they needed to survive and thrive in full health and immortality. Blaming Satan is the perpetual apologetic excuse for your God. The same god sought to keep knowledge and vital information from humans, lest they become like him and take away his powerful position.

You have to abdicate dictating terms to the almighty. Such profound ego! He has a plan to save the world. It's just not saving the world the way you'd prefer.

If he's all-powerful then the world doesn't need saving at all. He can click his fingers and all is made perfect surely? Did he not according to your fallacious belief system create an entire universe in a few days? And you think he needs to have some special long term plan of millions of years to fix the Earth? The absence of logic there is astounding.

Jesus never said 'follow me and you won't suffer or have troubles.' In fact, he said we would have troubles because we follow him. He also told us to take heart because he has overtaken the world.

Jesus said a lot of things. Most of them are not understood by Christians because they don't have the "eyes to see" Jesus said were needed to understand thee "mysteries of the kingdom". Until you have those eyes it's better that you don't try to make claims about what Jesus said or meant.

 

[Wrangler]

For if all actions were permitted freely, theen there would be no need for justice.

Again, you are distorting what Free Will means. It never meant one can act with impunity.

 

[Wrangler]

No loving god would offer such a proposition.

It shows how self destructive Atheism is. The ego to judge God. Wow!

 

[Wrangler]

Your God took from humans the vital substance they needed to survive and thrive in full health and immortality.

No. The natural consequence of sin is death. God did not take it away from humans. The Free Will exercised by humans took it away.

 

[Lapidem]

No. The natural consequence of sin is death. God did not take it away from humans. The Free Will exercised by humans took it away.

You're still clueless, lacking the eyes to see. The allegorical "Garden Of Eden" was a world where humans wanted for nothing because they had the special substance known as the Elixir Of Life or Philosopher's Stone. The Stone provides immense amounts of life energy resulting in a number of fantastic benefits which include:

- the body being able to heal itself in super quick time
- the body not aging but remaining in peak form equivalent to early age (approx. 30yrs or so)
- the body not feeling the extremes of heat or cold (just as very young kids play happily in the snow in t-shirts)
- the body not needing to take life energy from other sources like food and drink

This is why Adam and Eve are recounted as walking around naked instead of needing warm clothes. It's why Jesus is recounted as surviving in the wilderness for 40 days and nights where he would have been exposed to extremes of temperatures and where there was no food. He had the Stone.

God took this most precious thing away from Adam and Eve leaving them vulnerable and weak, needing clothes, warmth, needing food and drink to survive and no longer having immortality. What a horrible thing to do! And why did he do it? Because they dared to expand their minds, learn new thinks and acquire knowledge. God was jealous, didn't want others having his knowledge because knowledge is power. The traits of a tyrant. A loving entity would encourage man to keep acquiring knowledge.

As a result of this withholding of the Stone, mankind is in the pitiful situation it is in. We now want and need, where before we didn't. Wants and need lead to survival instincts and fighting for resources, conflicts, wars and suffering. All because your god wanted to withhold vital knowledge from man. It's plain to see who the villain was in that scenario. It sure as hell was not the serpent. The serpent told the truth. The serpent said truthfully that to eat of that tree would grant them knowledge. God said that it would kill them. He lied plain and simple. They ate from the tree and they did not die. They acquired knowledge. Adam and Eve were no longer gods pet playthings. They knew who they were. They knew the truth. The so-called all-loving god punished them and all mankind to come simply because they sought knowledge. Pretty tyrannical. The church has been lying for centuries.

 

[Wrangler]

The allegorical "Garden Of Eden" was a world where humans wanted for nothing because they had the special substance known as the Elixir Of Life or Philosopher's Stone.

Confused. Reality. Fantasy. Not the same thing.

The Atheist fantasy is there is a possibility of some explanation besides God. Just out of curiosity, what evidence do you have to support your claim that ‘they had the special substance known as the Elixir Of Life or Philosopher's Stone?’

I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

 

[Lapidem]

Confused. Reality. Fantasy. Not the same thing.

The Atheist fantasy is there is a possibility of some explanation besides God. Just out of curiosity, what evidence do you have to support your claim that ‘they had the special substance known as the Elixir Of Life or Philosopher's Stone?’

The Bible. It contains an overall message about the Stone and the processes for making it in numerous books. There are also as I have said, 100s of works of the philosopher's all describing the same thing, highlighting/listing the bestowed benefits of the Stone, the methods for making it and so on. Coupled with this the same message is found in the Quran and other sacred religious tomes. It's a consistent message found in them all using the same allegorical terminology (hidden language). Once you see it you can't see anything else, it all becomes clear.

I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

Me neither. That's why I don't discount the possibility of one or more entities that are more advanced than humans and which to us might seem to be gods.

 

[Wrangler]

The Bible. It contains an overall message about the Stone and the processes for making it in numerous books.

No actual chapter and verse, huh?

Me neither. That's why I don't discount the possibility of one or more entities that are more advanced than humans and which to us might seem to be gods.

Only God can explain life. Who made the alien entity DNA code?

Where is your evidence that human DNA was written by some non-divine entity?

Asserting the possibility of life does not make it probable. Current knowledge of life other than Earth has 0 in the numerator. Fact.

 

[Lapidem]

No actual chapter and verse, huh?

Sigh . . . .

Yes here:

Genesis 2:9
"The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

The "tree of life" is one of the many names for the Philosopher' Stone. Also Soma, Alkahest, Quintessence, Great Pearl and many many more.

Here again is that most obvious alchemical reference in the Bible:

Proverbs 3:13-20:
"Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is
better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou
canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. Her ways are
ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that
retaineth her. The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew."

Same term used plus the final 2 sentences echo the words of Genesis to confirm its the same thing. Sentences which describe the laboratory processes involved in the creation of the Stone.

Only God can explain life.

On your say so? Ridiculous

Who made the alien entity DNA code?

Who knows?

Where is your evidence that human DNA was written by some non-divine entity?

Where's you evidence it was written by your god? Please don't waste everyone's time with religious nonsense, provide actual evidence.

Current knowledge of life other than Earth has 0 in the numerator. Fact.

Really? So this chap is lying then?

Former NASA engineer claims he saw a NINE FOOT alien

Clark McClelland was allegedly part of a team based at the Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Florida, when he spotted the extra-terrestrial humanoid.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He's an actual WITNESS to an event in which he and others interacted with aliens.

According to you a witness constitutes proof right????

See how that works . . ?

 

[Wrangler]

Where's you evidence it was written by your god? Please don't waste everyone's time with religious nonsense, provide actual evidence.

Done.

1. Walking in the woods happening upon a book is actual evidence of a writer. Likewise,
2. happening upon code written in 4D using molecules to form DNA in a creature is actual evidence of a Creator.