If Christians Can't Have Demons Debate Me (You Won't Do It) Show Me In Scripture!!

[3rdAngel]

addressing 3rdAngel

Gal 4:13 - Ye know how through "infirmity" of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

infirmity - ἀσθένεια
want of strength, weakness, infirmity

1. of the body
   1. its native weakness and frailty
      
      
   2. feebleness of health or sickness

of the soul

1. want of strength and capacity requisite
   1. to understand a thing
      
      
   2. to do things great and glorious
      
      
   3. to restrain corrupt desires
      
      
   4. to bear trials and troubles

Strong’s Definitions G772; feebleness (of mind or body); by implication, malady; morally, frailty:—disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness

(Gal 4:13 - Ye know how through "Sin nature" of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first)

Makes no sense!!

You are mixed up here. Your looking at two unrelated Greek words in Infirmity (ἀσθένεια G772) and mixing that up with flesh (sarx σάρξ G4561) in Galatians 3:13. With the correction applied Galatians 4:13 would read...

(Gal 4:13 - Ye know how through "Infirmity" of the "Sin nature" I preached the gospel unto you at the first)

Although this makes sense now that your error here has been corrected, I believe personally the application is possibly to some physical disease or bodily weakness and hence the applicaiton of flesh rather than "sin nature" Paul may have picked up. Just my thoughts though.

As posted earlier Greek Word for flesh (sarx) has many meaning as has already been shared with you. It is the context and application of the word that determines the word meaning. What your doing here is taking a totally unrelated scripture to what I was applying flesh (sarx) to from Romans 7-8 to carnal mind or sinful human nature or body that supplies the context to the meaning and trying to apply that to a totally unrelated scripture where you have mixed up the word definitions between infirmity and flesh.

Hope this helps

 

[Waiting on him]

yes coz it says in 2 Corinth 12:7 satan have sent a "messenger" which is "angel" in the greek, to buffet me, wat else can it be, satan doesn't send good angels does he!!

2 Corinthians 12:6-7 KJV
[6] For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. [7] And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

my opinion is that this thorn was from God for Paul’s humility, if you continue in the text you’ll see that Christ in Paul is magnified as a result of the thorn given.

So my question would be, who brings these kinds of trials, and for what purpose?
https://tbibl.es/2OzO

 

[DoveSpirit05]

Nonsense! It is the context of application that determines both Greek and Hebrew words meanings as most words used have more than one meaning. You were given examples and application applied to Romans 7 and Romans 7 applied to the context within the scriptures and chapters. It seems like you are the one picking and choosing what suits you.



Well I am glad you agree now, but you just contradicted yourself with what you wrote above.



Firstly Galatians 4:15 says nothing about body, flesh or sarx. Do you mean Galatians 4:14? Maybe you need to go back and re-edit your posts. As posted here earlier this is referring to temptation in the flesh. We all have temptations in the flesh in one form or another and need God's salvation to deliver us from them. So I did not lie you gave wrong references as I checked v15 earlier to try and understand what you were talking about and it did not make any sense.

Hope this helps.

I ment gal 4:13

iver way its irrelevant!! people here may not be able 2 see your mental gymnastics but I can. if u wanna believe what u believe good for you!!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

Id advise people here just coz u see alot of people here disagreeing with me
although not all but alot doesnt mean I'm wrong, its called an adpopulum argument,
i know its easy 2 jump on the bandwagon like job's friends and follow the
multitude.

And don't be fooled by 3rd angels semantics!! he may look the part but he's being very fallacious and deceptive!!
But I'd suggest dis, be a berean and go study it urself 2 see if wat i'm saying is
true and dont just listern to peoples opinion!! don't even listern to me!! listern to God, jesus, the apostles, the early church fathers teachings!!
and listern 2 the holy spirit!!

Pray, fast and seek God diligently for the answers and he will answer!!

churches these days are 2 full of, self righteous, dogmatic vain teachings which look at themselves as nicholations!! don't be taken in buy it, keep asking questions and study 2 show urself approved!!

God bless!!

 

[Waiting on him]

Id advise people here just coz u see alot of people here disagreeing with me
although not all but alot doesnt mean I'm wrong, its called an adpopulum argument,
i know its easy 2 jump on the bandwagon like job's friends and follow the
multitude.

And don't be fooled by 3rd angels semantics!! he may look the part but he's being very fallacious and deceptive!!
But I'd suggest dis, be a berean and go study it urself 2 see if wat i'm saying is
true and dont just listern to peoples opinion!! don't even listern to me!! listern to God, jesus, the apostles, the early church fathers teachings!!
and listern 2 the holy spirit!!

Pray, fast and seek God diligently for the answers and he will answer!!

churches these days are 2 full of, self righteous, dogmatic vain teachings which look at themselves as nicholations!! don't be taken in buy it, keep asking questions and study 2 show urself approved!!

God bless!!

Hey Dove, did you get a chance to read over chapter 11 of 2 Corinthians?

 

[rockytopva]

Thread starts... "If Christians Can't Have Demons Debate Me (You Won't Do It) Show Me In Scripture!!"

When I was counselor at youth camp I was at the time in a church where the "old guard" liked to control and to dominate. I spoke to a brother and said something to the effect of the devil in church people. His reply was the same... "If Christians Can't Have Demons Debate Me (You Won't Do It) Show Me In Scripture!!" And really took issue to this and reported me up the chain of command.

Well, I finally got out of the youth ministry and went to school to get some more education. I went to a camp meeting years later and that brother looked me up! And he apologized for causing the trouble against me years before. After that conversation I wondered what made him come to the conclusion that yes, devils can operate through church people.

 

[Nancy]

Luke 13:11
11 And behold, a woman that had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years; and she was bowed together, and could in no wise lift herself up.

Just wanted to mention there are all kinds of spirits....evil ones, unclean ones, ones that cause sickness and disease as above...lying spirits, deceptive spirits (which seems to be spreading heavily throughout the religious organizations), even religious spirits
So I believe this is why Paul was teaching us to put on the Armor of God daily....and that we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness..(etc)....these spirits are puppets of Satan who have assignments to attack Christians in their weaknesses and in their ignorance of the Truth.

But as for the ones that are tempting us to sin those we should resist....resist the devil and he will flee....or resist temptation and it will flee.

C.S. Lewis The Screw-tape Letters comes to mind here

 

[Nancy]

Well if evil cannot dwell with God, and God dwells in us, then evil cannot dwell in us. Game over, I think.
But I don't understand what you are trying to show with Gal. 4:15. You need to clarify if you want me to discuss it with you.

Sin is evil. Sin dwells inside of us:
"So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good" (Romans 7:17-21)

So then, I see every reason to turn to Eph. 6, so as to continually battle the sin and flesh. These are His "way out's" for us, IMHO.

 

[Heart2Soul]

C.S. Lewis The Screw-tape Letters comes to mind here

I have never heard or read the Screw-tape Letters until it was mentioned here on the forum....I think I read somewhere you mentioning this before...going to have to check it out.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Thread starts... "If Christians Can't Have Demons Debate Me (You Won't Do It) Show Me In Scripture!!"

When I was counselor at youth camp I was at the time in a church where the "old guard" liked to control and to dominate. I spoke to a brother and said something to the effect of the devil in church people. His reply was the same... "If Christians Can't Have Demons Debate Me (You Won't Do It) Show Me In Scripture!!" And really took issue to this and reported me up the chain of command.

Well, I finally got out of the youth ministry and went to school to get some more education. I went to a camp meeting years later and that brother looked me up! And he apologized for causing the trouble against me years before. After that conversation I wondered what made him come to the conclusion that yes, devils can operate through church people.

I have had the same kind of situations in my life as well.....it always makes me think of what Jesus said to Peter.... Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.
Matthew 13:16
But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
1 Corinthians 2:10
But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

Some people can receive His Truth long before others...I believe that the people who continue to seek out truth are the ones He reveals His wisdom and knowledge to.....perhaps that person discovered the truth at some point and therefore became convicted of how he persecuted you in the past.

 

[Steve Owen]

Sin is evil. Sin dwells inside of us:
"So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good" (Romans 7:17-21)

So then, I see every reason to turn to Eph. 6, so as to continually battle the sin and flesh. These are His "way out's" for us, IMHO.

First of all, let me agree absolutely with the last part of your post. We have to battle daily with sin and with temptation: the world, the flesh and the devil as the Puritans used to say. But let me address the first part of your post now.

The Christian is a new creation in Christ Jesus: 'Old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.' The Christian has died to sin (Romans 6:2), crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20). Yet there is a relic of sin left within, not us, but our 'flesh' or 'members' of our bodies. So immediately after telling us to reckon ourselves dead to sin, Paul tells us not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies (Romans 6:11-12). Again, Paul says, 'For I delight in the law of God according to the inner man, but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is [not in me, not in my 'inner man' but] in my members.' Paul says much the same thing in Galatians 5:16-17. 'I say then, walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, so that you do not do the [good, righteous] things that you wish.' The Holy Spirit dwells within us; sin dwells, not in us, but in our 'flesh.' We have to keep in step with the Spirit, and crucify, not ourselves because that's already happened (Gal 2:20), but our 'members.' 'Put to death, therefore, your members that are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness.....etc.' (Colossians 3:5).

I believe we should treat our sins like Amalekites. 'The LORD has sworn war with Amalek from generation to generation' (Exodus 17:16). Read Deuteronomy 25:17-19. Sin attacks us when we are unprepared, weak or tired. We are to fortify ourselves in the Spirit and be prepared for a lifetime battle with it. We are to show no mercy even to what the Puritans called our 'darling sins,' but strike them down before the Lord (1 Samuel 15:33). But even with our very best efforts, we shall find that in this life we shall never get rid of sin altogether (1 Samuel 30:17).

In my church we have been looking at a book by Jerry Bridges called 'Respectable Sins' and running Bible studies from it. We have covered pride, discontent, bitterness, spiritual apathy, selfish ambition, envy and jealousy with a few more to come. These are all Amalekites and we need to destroy them utterly in the power of the Spirit. Buy the book! It's really challenging, but great!

 

[Nancy]

First of all, let me agree absolutely with the last part of your post. We have to battle daily with sin and with temptation: the world, the flesh and the devil as the Puritans used to say. But let me address the first part of your post now.

The Christian is a new creation in Christ Jesus: 'Old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.' The Christian has died to sin (Romans 6:2), crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20). Yet there is a relic of sin left within, not us, but our 'flesh' or 'members' of our bodies. So immediately after telling us to reckon ourselves dead to sin, Paul tells us not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies (Romans 6:11-12). Again, Paul says, 'For I delight in the law of God according to the inner man, but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is [not in me, not in my 'inner man' but] in my members.' Paul says much the same thing in Galatians 5:16-17. 'I say then, walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, so that you do not do the [good, righteous] things that you wish.' The Holy Spirit dwells within us; sin dwells, not in us, but in our 'flesh.' We have to keep in step with the Spirit, and crucify, not ourselves because that's already happened (Gal 2:20), but our 'members.' 'Put to death, therefore, your members that are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness.....etc.' (Colossians 3:5).

I believe we should treat our sins like Amalekites. 'The LORD has sworn war with Amalek from generation to generation' (Exodus 17:16). Read Deuteronomy 25:17-19. Sin attacks us when we are unprepared, weak or tired. We are to fortify ourselves in the Spirit and be prepared for a lifetime battle with it. We are to show no mercy even to what the Puritans called our 'darling sins,' but strike them down before the Lord (1 Samuel 15:33). But even with our very best efforts, we shall find that in this life we shall never get rid of sin altogether (1 Samuel 30:17).

In my church we have been looking at a book by Jerry Bridges called 'Respectable Sins' and running Bible studies from it. We have covered pride, discontent, bitterness, spiritual apathy, selfish ambition, envy and jealousy with a few more to come. These are all Amalekites and we need to destroy them utterly in the power of the Spirit. Buy the book! It's really challenging, but great!

Yes, good post,
@Episkopos did a teaching on the Amalekites a short while back...I could be wrong though...

 

[DoveSpirit05]

one of the lies of the devil is dat if you if u talk about him and demons ur
crazy, uv gone overboard, nothing can be further from the truth!! Gods people perish
4 a lack of knowledge not having 2 much of it.

 

[Hope in God]

In the 70s, men from Ft. Lauderdale who headed up the sheep/shepherding movement had one fella among them, Don Basham, who would come to the beaches auditorium on occasion to hold deliverance from demons conferences. As you walked through the doorway, you were handed a lunch bag which was to be used to vomit out your demons as they were being renounced.

I had no experience with any of this until, as we were all led to renounce various potential influences throughout our lives, the use of ouija boards, tarot cards, spirits of everything imaginative including the spirit of infirmity, spirit of lust, greed, idolatry, etc. that large room became engulfed with screams, mostly from ladies, who were helped to gain a complete release from what was termed, not demon possession, but demonization.

Look up Derek Prince on youtube. There are many videos of him teaching about demon influences as well as events similar to the above. You can hear the demons yelling as they come out. And these were Christians in attendance, not unbelievers. Here is a demon deliverance service held by Derek Prince:

 

[DoveSpirit05]

In the 70s, men from Ft. Lauderdale who headed up the sheep/shepherding movement had one fella among them, Don Basham, who would come to the beaches auditorium on occasion to hold deliverance from demons conferences. As you walked through the doorway, you were handed a lunch bag which was to be used to vomit out your demons as they were being renounced.

I had no experience with any of this until, as we were all led to renounce various potential influences throughout our lives, the use of ouija boards, tarot cards, spirits of everything imaginative including the spirit of infirmity, spirit of lust, greed, idolatry, etc. that large room became engulfed with screams, mostly from ladies, who were helped to gain a complete release from what was termed, not demon possession, but demonization.

Look up Derek Prince on youtube. There are many videos of him teaching about demon influences as well as events similar to the above. You can hear the demons yelling as they come out. And these were Christians in attendance, not unbelievers. Here is a demon deliverance service held by Derek Prince:

Yep!! I watch him and Win Worley, very knowledgeable!!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

The deliverance ministry is a big threat to satans kingdom so he's gone round brain washing the churches 2 think dat demons are not a threat and that a Christian cant have a demon and anyone who thinks dat is crazy!! hence the backlash!!

They think dat satan's just some guy who sits in a room somewhere just twiddling his thumbs!! dormant, what du think he's been doing since the garden just kicking back zipping a martini, people are just clueless man just like the bible says, jeremiah 5:21 he has them all completely duped!! he's really got his fish hooks in.

The problem with dis world is that people don't fear God!! and people under estimate the devil.

 

[3rdAngel]

Actually there is a good thread on the OP's scripture claims, showing from the scriptures the correct application of 2 Corinthinans 12:7 linked here if anyone is interested. It shows why this OP's interpretation of this scripture is in error, through the scriptures alone.

blessings

 

[SleekB]

I think it is Genesis 3:15 that puts enmity between humans and demons. So for them to possess anyone, our self preservation, and free will has been seduced along with that enmity. Have to remember that during Biblical times, people were not God exclusive; not a problem with praying to an idol for some. That act removes the enmity, and alters the free will since they willfully accept whatever they prayed to. Self preservation limits actions once possessed, but inviting evil in, and evil just barging in are two different situations.

 

[DoveSpirit05]

I think it is Genesis 3:15 that puts enmity between humans and demons. So for them to possess anyone, our self preservation, and free will has been seduced along with that enmity. Have to remember that during Biblical times, people were not God exclusive; not a problem with praying to an idol for some. That act removes the enmity, and alters the free will since they willfully accept whatever they prayed to. Self preservation limits actions once possessed, but inviting evil in, and evil just barging in are two different situations.

gen 3:15 is talking about the son of man who will bruise the serpent's head which is Christ!! enmity means in opposition, it doesn't mean apart from something!! wen A&E sinned dat gave satan a free pass along with his demons 2 come and flood the earth, God has given the world other 2 satan for the time being as punishment for mans sin isia 25:14-18 and now satan has dominion over the world matt 4:1, Nehemiah 9:37 so demons can rome about as they please and do have a free pass into anyone unless the come 2 Christ and get Gods seal of protection!!

but they can still oppress Christians don't know how many times I have 2 say it, 1 peter 4:12 but its God will we be overcomers Job 23:10, deu 8:2-4, pslam 53:2-3 that's the whole message in gen 3:15 its a figurative meaning!!, Christ overcame satan in the desert matt 4:4 and we also overcome satan by resisting temptation!! james 4:7

 

[DoveSpirit05]