If machine guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have machine guns

[Phoneman777]

Your argument is based on a conspiracy theory.

Your chart is absurd. The founding fathers were not dealing with WMD, hand grenades, fighter jets and assault rifles. To imply that they stood for 0 ban on any types of weapons is a faulty anachronism. You have no idea what they would have thought given our current circumstances and so this image of things sliding progressively to the left as some sort of maniacal plan by "godless Christ-haters" is a gross character attack on people who have a different view on the civilian use of assault rifles. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Wormwood, I think you mean Conspiracy Fact, seeing that the evidence is overwhelming and in plain sight for anyone to see who is willing to exchange their implicit hope in "The Land of The Free" for implicit hope in Christ's return alone. I'm sorry you think truth is absurd but my Bible says in Revelation 13 that the most powerful nation on Earth will force the entire world to bow down to the most powerful religion on Earth. Prophecy says we're living down in the toenails of the Image of Daniel 2 and the Stone is about to hit the planet, so is it that difficult to look around and spot the only superpower left and the most powerful religious system that will have its backing?

 

[Phoneman777]

I agree with you that evil is the problem. However, a person with an assault rifle and 30-shot clips can murder 50 innocent people in about 2 minutes. Most police officers do not even carry that kind of weaponry. The argument is against people having and stockpiling weapons that were made for warfare. A person can defend themselves with a shotgun, rifle or pistol. No one is trying to take those away. For the life of me, I do not understand why anyone needs an assault rifle or to sockpile masses of heavy weaponry. Why not rocket launchers? Why not grenade launchers on the end of the rifles (those can be controlled more easily). Why not chain guns or sniper rifles? Arent you "incrementally" taking away rights by denying these weapons? After all, the 2nd Amendment was made to protect the people from the government. Maybe we should have fighter jets of our own? We cant really resist the government without some kind of tactical air resistance, right?

The point I am trying to make is simply that we all draw lines somewhere. I find it nonsensical to say that the line between chain guns and assault rifles is not "dragging this country down" but to draw a line between semi-automatic assault rifles and pistols and shotguns is "dragging this country down." Who decides which imaginary line is an effort to oppress the people while the other is not?

Shouldn't Chicago, the most heavily gun controlled city, be the safest city in 'Merica? And what is the solution to the massive epidemic of gun crime there - more Gun Control? And why is it that places with least gun control where people open carry AR-15s have the least gun crime?

I think the fundamental flaw in the Gun Control debate is the belief that criminals obey gun laws. I was at the range with hundreds of other armed firearms enthusiasts shooting my 30 round banana magazine Home Defense Rifle and I must say that the statistical threat of inner city thugs or ISIS showing up to cause trouble there was absolutely LESS THAN ZERO.

 

[Dcopymope]

Shouldn't Chicago, the most heavily gun controlled city, be the safest city in 'Merica? And what is the solution to the massive epidemic of gun crime there - more Gun Control? And why is it that places with least gun control where people open carry AR-15s have the least gun crime?

I think the fundamental flaw in the Gun Control debate is the belief that criminals obey gun laws. I was at the range with hundreds of other armed firearms enthusiasts shooting my 30 round banana magazine Home Defense Rifle and I must say that the statistical threat of inner city thugs or ISIS showing up to cause trouble there was absolutely LESS THAN ZERO.

The fact is, gun restrictions are a common trait of literally all tyrannical regimes throughout history, so the term "criminal" could also apply to those in government. The better armed the populace the safer. For get ISIS or the common thug on the street, your government will pose a far bigger threat than any local gang or religious fanatic ever will, as they have all the big weapons.

 

[Wormwood]

So, you are trying to tell me that gun control laws are part of the Bible's prophecies and that the evil one's agenda is to remove our right ot bear arms? smh

 

[michaelvpardo]

I don't know about disarming everyone, but if what some media outlets have said is actually true, a ban on purchasing fire arms on people that fall into a terrorist watch list would ban most evangelicals from purchasing a gun (this is based upon the premise that the report that the government now considers evangelicals to be potential terrorists is both true and accurate.)
Over the last 8 years and especially since the more recent manpower cuts to the military, there has been a deliberate effort to remove evangelicals and other professing Christians from positions of authority in the military. Just why this is so isn't clear, but I suspect that it has something to do with defining "legal orders" and who would be most likely to rebel against them.
I was listening to Curtis Sleewa (?) and Ron Kuby talking about proposed gun legislation on their radio talk show, and was quite surprised to hear that neither of them seemed to understand why our "founding fathers" considered the right to bear arms important enough to guarantee to the American public. Their own writings indicate that they didn't trust big government, big banking, or the inherent tendency of people in power to try to retain that power at any cost. They started a nation based upon a rebellion against legitimate authority and wanted to retain the right to rebel against the same should the centralized (federal) government become tyrannical.
Hunting was never the reason for a right to bear arms, but it is a good reason to use to legitimize the disarming of a population that gets its food from the local supermarket.

 

[Dcopymope]

So, you are trying to tell me that gun control laws are part of the Bible's prophecies and that the evil one's agenda is to remove our right ot bear arms? smh

I wouldn't be surprised sir. Guns are not a determining factor in the occurrence of the last days. It will happen when God allows it. But a disarmed populace will make for a very subdued populace. No revolt is possible without it. Also, keep in mind, that at some point, the beast of Revelation will receive a deadly head wound. You can deduce by todays technology what would most likely give him the head wound. I`ll just say its going to be a bullet square in his dome that will be the real trigger event for the disarmament of the public, and all hell breaking loose.

 

[Phoneman777]

The fact is, gun restrictions are a common trait of literally all tyrannical regimes throughout history, so the term "criminal" could also apply to those in government. The better armed the populace the safer. For get ISIS or the common thug on the street, your government will pose a far bigger threat than any local gang or religious fanatic ever will, as they have all the big weapons.

Whoa whoa, watch it bro! You might be accused of being a "wild eyed CONSPIRACY theorist" by others who are soft on gun rights! LOL

(of course, those of us who don't live in Cloud Cookie Land know full well that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment was so that "We the people" could adequately defend ourselves against the rise of just such a government in our midst.)

 

[Phoneman777]

i dont think anyone needs grenades and they should be outlawed b/c there is no control over where they land... etc

but the thing is that the FOCUS is wrong here... Guns do not kill, people do

the left dont seem to understand the idea of EVIL

they are dragging this country down further and fruther

and they try to take our rights away INCREMENTALLY... it is always about.. incrementally...

There are some people who just don't understand the concept of incrementalism - they'll never accept that their liberty is actively, gradually being eroded until Martial Law is declared and even then, they'll still be unsure until they check with there local governmental authorities to see if they can obtain a permit to join a militia.

 

[River Jordan]

If the NRA is right and "an armed society is a polite society", then gang areas should be the safest, most polite places in the country.

 

[Skitnik]

Yeah, I dont think anyone is saying no one should have the right to have a gun. What they are asking for is tighter restrictions on who can get a permit and what types of weapons should be accessible. Why does someone need a semi-automatic assault rifle with a 30 shot banana clip? I mean, why not say people can have grenades, land mines and Sherman tanks? Do I think that these restrictions will keep fanatics from getting illegal weapons and shooting up places? Probably not. But no one is saying to disarm everyone and not allow people to carry guns. At least no one I have heard.

Are gun laws in France restrictive enough for you? Extremely restrictive even by California standards. It did not stop Muslim shooters in France from getting fully automatic AKs with plenty of "banana clips" (term indicating total lack of knowing anything about guns) from going down the street and shooting up people at will.
If you make guns illegal only those who break the laws will have them.

 

[Dcopymope]

Whoa whoa, watch it bro! You might be accused of being a "wild eyed CONSPIRACY theorist" by others who are soft on gun rights! LOL

(of course, those of us who don't live in Cloud Cookie Land know full well that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment was so that "We the people" could adequately defend ourselves against the rise of just such a government in our midst.)

Yeah, its a damn shame that historical facts and statistics are dismissed as "conspiracy theory". I guess the reason for the second amendments existence is a conspiracy theory. Seriously, this is how dumbed down society has become. They don't reason and think critically for themselves. We live in a society that basis its reason for existence off of theories, pettled by "experts" who do the publics reasoning and thinking for them. It makes it easy for Satan to get away with a lot of things.

 

[Wormwood]

Dcopymope,

I would encourage you to engage in a respectful discourse where you explain why you disagree rather than making comments that people who think differently than you are dumb and lack critical thinking skills.

 

[Phoneman777]

Dcopymope,

I would encourage you to engage in a respectful discourse where you explain why you disagree rather than making comments that people who think differently than you are dumb and lack critical thinking skills.

Wormwood, I don't think Dcopymope meant to be disrespectful. There's a saying I've been hearing lately that goes "facts don't care about your feelings" and it means that regardless of how they make us feel, facts are still facts. We Christians take the same position when we warn non-believers of dying without Jesus. However offended they may be, we know that "the facts are the facts".

Not that long ago, an 8th grade exam from the year 1895 was presented to college students of our day to see if they could pass it. The overwhelming majority failed. You can Google this. It's one of many examples an examination of the history of our public schools will demonstrate that, yes, we as a society are being actively dumbed down by the powers that be because what corporations want for their "21st century global economy" are not people who can think critically, but people who will follow orders without questioning. The Common Core Curriculum is the American version of the United Nations World Core Curriculum which has been disseminated around the world for decades. The author of the World Core Curriculum, former UN under secretary Robert Muller, said his curriculum is based on the writing of Alice A. Bailey. Do you know who she was? Well, she and her husband started a publishing house called "LUCIFER PUBLISHING COMPANY", which they later changed to "LUCIS TRUST" because of the outcry.

If you look into AAB's writings, you'll understand EXACTLY why so many parents are objecting to the anti-patriotism, pro state authoritarian, anti-Christian, pro global religious ecumenism, anti-parents, pro state-as-supreme-authority- over-children, anti traditional family, pro LGBTQ, etc. agenda of Common Core.

 

[Dcopymope]

Wormwood, I don't think Dcopymope meant to be disrespectful. There's a saying I've been hearing lately that goes "facts don't care about your feelings" and it means that regardless of how they make us feel, facts are still facts. We Christians take the same position when we warn non-believers of dying without Jesus. However offended they may be, we know that "the facts are the facts".

Not that long ago, an 8th grade exam from the year 1895 was presented to college students of our day to see if they could pass it. The overwhelming majority failed. You can Google this. It's one of many examples an examination of the history of our public schools will demonstrate that, yes, we as a society are being actively dumbed down by the powers that be because what corporations want for their "21st century global economy" are not people who can think critically, but people who will follow orders without questioning. The Common Core Curriculum is the American version of the United Nations World Core Curriculum which has been disseminated around the world for decades. The author of the World Core Curriculum, former UN under secretary Robert Muller, said his curriculum is based on the writing of Alice A. Bailey. Do you know who she was? Well, she and her husband started a publishing house called "LUCIFER PUBLISHING COMPANY", which they later changed to "LUCIS TRUST" because of the outcry.

If you look into AAB's writings, you'll understand EXACTLY why so many parents are objecting to the anti-patriotism, pro state authoritarian, anti-Christian, pro global religious ecumenism, anti-parents, pro state-as-supreme-authority- over-children, anti traditional family, pro LGBTQ, etc. agenda of Common Core.

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I remember that 8th grade exam. After trying that test myself, I know that 99% of the populace today would not be able to pass that test. So yes, I'm glad you brought that up because it proves my point perfectly of just how much the education system has been dumbed down. If people think they are smarter than their great grand parents and ancestors, well, you aren't. The upper crust elite have written books making it very clear of their intent to engineer a populace who would be unable to reason and think critically for themselves. To you, school is meant to inform and educate, but for those that truly run it, its nothing more than a form of propaganda.

Cinema is also another very effective tool of indoctrination. In fact, the use of Cinematography is THE most effective tool in psychological warfare, which they've also made very clear but this in of itself is a story for another thread. They wrote about their intent to create a society of nothing but "experts", like a priest hood where everything they say is believed as if its the infallible word of God. We have "experts" telling us what to think, how to behave and how to think about every damn thing there is, whether it be economics, religion, science, even trivial matters like fashion. This is the main reason why Satan is having a field day with us in these last days. A society that doesn't have its head screwed on straight only makes his job as the father of lies much easier.

 

[Wormwood]

Well, I have been following and contributing to this thread, and I dont know where anyone would get the idea that those who have commented in favor of restrictions on personal weapons lack critical thinking skills. The implication, again, is that because you may support something a Democrat says, then you must be brainwashed by a system that has impeded your decision making. Whereas, if you support the Republican ideas on weaponry, then you haven't bought into the propaganda and are therefore more intelligent.

The reality is, both political parties have their agendas and propaganda on this issue. IMO, many of these politicians dont even care about the issues at all. The only thing they care about is getting elected and having power. They regularly flip-flop on issues such like these toward whatever side they think will garner the most votes. The reason politicians have become more liberal in their stances is because the public has become more liberal and the politicians want to get elected. The leaders of this country are a biproduct of our society. They are not guiding the thinking of our society...its quite the opposite. There's a reason McDonald's sells fatty, greasy fries with their meals. Its not because they have a secret agenda to make America fat and kill people off. Its because Americans like greasy, fatty, unhealthy food and its what they want to buy...and McDonald's wants to make money. The system is set up to be driven by the desires of the people.

In any event, I dont think having an AK-47 is a Satan vs. God issue. To suggest this is part of Satan's end-times plans is preposterous. Seems pretty self-absorbed for us as Americans to think that our gun laws...or any of our laws for that matter, hold the key to the world's ultimate demise. Countries like our have come an gone since Jesus ascended.

 

[lforrest]

I'm not looking to prevent the Lord's return. My immediate concern in regards to gun control is the pacification of the people. It takes power from the people and gives it to the government. Inevitably that power will be abused.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well, I have been following and contributing to this thread, and I dont know where anyone would get the idea that those who have commented in favor of restrictions on personal weapons lack critical thinking skills. The implication, again, is that because you may support something a Democrat says, then you must be brainwashed by a system that has impeded your decision making. Whereas, if you support the Republican ideas on weaponry, then you haven't bought into the propaganda and are therefore more intelligent.

The reality is, both political parties have their agendas and propaganda on this issue. IMO, many of these politicians dont even care about the issues at all. The only thing they care about is getting elected and having power. They regularly flip-flop on issues such like these toward whatever side they think will garner the most votes. The reason politicians have become more liberal in their stances is because the public has become more liberal and the politicians want to get elected. The leaders of this country are a biproduct of our society. They are not guiding the thinking of our society...its quite the opposite. There's a reason McDonald's sells fatty, greasy fries with their meals. Its not because they have a secret agenda to make America fat and kill people off. Its because Americans like greasy, fatty, unhealthy food and its what they want to buy...and McDonald's wants to make money. The system is set up to be driven by the desires of the people.

In any event, I dont think having an AK-47 is a Satan vs. God issue. To suggest this is part of Satan's end-times plans is preposterous. Seems pretty self-absorbed for us as Americans to think that our gun laws...or any of our laws for that matter, hold the key to the world's ultimate demise. Countries like our have come an gone since Jesus ascended.

I'm not looking to prevent the Lord's return. My immediate concern in regards to gun control is the pacification of the people. It takes power from the people and gives it to the government. Inevitably that power will be abused.

I agree Forrest, not understanding why people think this abuse of power will be any different under a government that will, inevitably, be ruled with an iron fist by the beast of revelation. Like I said before, our freedom to lock and load will not stop Bible prophecy, but don't delude yourself more than you already are into believing that those same freedoms will continue under the anti-Christs rule. Like any other tyrants reign, your right to bare arms most certainly will not be tolerated. I'm almost certain enough that I can bet money on it. There is no reason at all to believe that the Iron First government of the end times will be any less strict on gun rights than any tyrant government that's ever existed. This is not rocket science, this is common sense. The moment Christians stop treating issues as it would pertain to the word of God like rocket science is the moment their understanding will become clear. All I see are Christians who really don't have their heads screwed on straight like God demands of us, making certain issues more complex, and convoluted than it needs to be. The moment I start seeing the Christian community start using their heads and letting the Bible speak for itself is the moment I'll believe that there is a real "body of Christ". Maybe that "body of Christ" will shown itself to be true when the time is ripe, but at the moment, I just see mass confusion.

 

[Wormwood]

So, are you suggesting 1) we can thwart the "Antichrist" by maintaining our guns and 2) the true "body of Christ" will be locked and loaded and ready to kick butt with their machine guns when the Antichrist comes knocking? smh. I think you have been getting too much of your eschatology from Hollywood and Arnold Schwartzenegger.

It is truly amazing how Dispensationalists butcher prophecy and use such ideas to promote all kinds of ridiculous political banter.

 

[Dcopymope]

So, are you suggesting 1) we can thwart the "Antichrist" by maintaining our guns and

No, and this subject has nothing to do with Hollywood, so lets not even go there. At no point did I say that prophecy will be thwarted, as you can't make war wih something that can't be killed by mortal means. I am not a dispensationalist, I am simply a Bible believing child of God. Satan loves the way Gods "body of christ" pigeon holes people under different denominations. If this is the body of christ, then its as fragmented as any groups ever been.

 

[Wormwood]

No, and this subject has nothing to do with Hollywood, so lets not even go there. At no point did I say that prophecy will be thwarted, as you can't make war wih something that can't be killed by mortal means. I am not a dispensationalist, I am simply a Bible believing child of God. Satan loves the way Gods "body of christ" pigeon holes people under different denominations. If this is the body of christ, then its as fragmented as any groups ever been.

It just seems to me that you are saying we should fight against people taking our guns because ultimately that is the plan of Satan/Antichrist. Which also implies that the Body of Christ should be a militant group that arms itself if the agenda of Satan is to disarm them. I see no biblical justification for such a concept.

Finally, I am speaking of your implied teachings which has a name. This has nothing to do with a denomination. People who are futurists or dispensationalists come from a variety of denominations. If your view is that there is a coming Great Tribulation led by an Antichrist who has an agenda to set up a one-world government, persecute God's people and exalt himself in a rebuilt Temple...then that is a futurist view of Revelation that coincides with a teaching known as Dispensationalism. It is just a term used to help identify a theological viewpoint. Yet you need to understand that not all Christians hold that viewpoint and thus your assumptions about prophecy and how it ties into future gun laws is something that is certainly not shared by all Christians. You keep implying that it is a cut and dry Biblical issue....when many Christians would disagree.