If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

[epostle]

I do go against such Churches but I am not against the Catholic Church at all, but what is attacking the Catholic Church and fact is that Pope Frances is a total moron, anyone who looks up to him must be idolising him and that's the problem. Plenty in the RCC say he is a disgrace, top people with in the RCC as well have pointed out that he is a fool.
The only people I know in the RCC that love him are all the shallow simple minded people who are Socialist, boy they love him and so do all the Atheist types that hatted Pope JP2 and Pope Benedict, I get them all coming to me now saying, oh what a wonderful Pope Frances is .

Well I truly love St Frances and I thought what a wonderful name to use and I had great hope of him, but what a disappointment .

The Media love him and if you can only think back at how much the Media hated and attacked the 2 Popes 24/7 before him can you remember that bro ? or have you forgotten all of it.

Do you see Pope Frances condemning all them abortion Satanist and Gays ect no !

Do you see Pope France claiming that Islam and the Jews have the same God ! yes he did ! the Jews are Anti-Christ in fact, so how can they know God ? as no one comes to the Father but through his only begotten Son.

So that makes Pope Frances someone who does not know God, so fact is that he is an Anti-Christ.

No one could be so stupid to claim that the Jews or Islam know God.

Because if they did they would know who Jesus Christ truly is and respect and follow him only and that's a fact.
So why support such bastards or give them the time of day ? because fact is that they are not respecting Jesus Christ in fact.
Pope Frances would of been burnt at the stake condemned as a heretic in fact for saying such rubbish.

The Jesuits are Anti-Christ order that are controlled by the Freemasons nowadays and they have been bastards in the past and were kicked out and then crept back in and then started peddling their crap again leading people astray with their worldly madness religious dribble.

Why don't you media zombies go victimize another innocent cardinal.
CARDINAL PELL VICTIMIZED

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Why don't you media zombies go victimize another innocent cardinal.
CARDINAL PELL VICTIMIZED

Pell I thought that he was one of the Good Roman Catholics, but I watched all of what he said in all of this and at the end of the day he could be innocent but I know for a fact that he knew all the goings on with children and did not take offence to such really and he went along with it all as he thought nothing of such really to worry himself with such to much. but that's how it goes with sodomites as they think very little of such dealings in fact.
I know one dude that was a plumber who said he was a screw in the worst Prison in Australia and he talked about rape in the jails as nothing at all, it was a every day thing to him. nothing more that one picking their nose I would say was the gravity of it.

As to all of the churches and other things like scouts and boarding schools etc all look the same on the cards in dealing with such issues, number one issue is the Schools reputation ect and to hell with the crime.
I would look at the kids who were prayed on, as to why one would attempt to pray on them and I have found that in the main such kids were seen as easy pickings and that's how it goes regardless, even in business you come across the most ruthless scum bags that you could ever think of that is worthy of any humanity at all and so it goes, one deals with such trash that are devoid of scruples as they play 'The game'.

I have a nose to sniff them out nowadays, I learnt the hard way of trusting to much in others and now know that some people are just like the Vampire. if you give them half the chance they will try to devour you.

 

[epostle]

Pell I thought that he was one of the Good Roman Catholics, but I watched all of what he said in all of this and at the end of the day he could be innocent but I know for a fact that he knew all the goings on with children and did not take offence to such really and he went along with it all as he thought nothing of such really to worry himself with such to much. but that's how it goes with sodomites as they think very little of such dealings in fact.
I know one dude that was a plumber who said he was a screw in the worst Prison in Australia and he talked about rape in the jails as nothing at all, it was a every day thing to him. nothing more that one picking their nose I would say was the gravity of it.

As to all of the churches and other things like scouts and boarding schools etc all look the same on the cards in dealing with such issues, number one issue is the Schools reputation ect and to hell with the crime.
I would look at the kids who were prayed on, as to why one would attempt to pray on them and I have found that in the main such kids were seen as easy pickings and that's how it goes regardless, even in business you come across the most ruthless scum bags that you could ever think of that is worthy of any humanity at all and so it goes, one deals with such trash that are devoid of scruples as they play 'The game'.

I have a nose to sniff them out nowadays, I learnt the hard way of trusting to much in others and now know that some people are just like the Vampire. if you give them half the chance they will try to devour you.

Should we abandon Peter because of Judas?

Media zombies pretend the sex abuse crisis is ongoing. It is not.
The case against Cardinal Pell started 40+ years ago. A travesty of justice is an understatement. He is a victim of a media frenzy.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Should we abandon Peter because of Judas?

Media zombies pretend the sex abuse crisis is ongoing. It is not.

The case against Cardinal Pell started 40+ years ago. A travesty of justice is an understatement. He is a victim of a media frenzy.

Who is it that is claiming that the sex abuse has stoped ? when did it stop ? what was the date.

As far as I did in fact know of such going on was that it was going on in the 70's, I knew it and I talked about such with who ever would listen and a would not as they would get offended and totally reject such talk, just like you are doing now with me. I know how it works.

I know how the kids who called out for help were just dismissed and attacked they had no hope at all as no one would listen to them in the media or Church or Government or Police as it was all hushed up in a way that is a total disgrace, they are all condemned ! because there works condemn them they are in fact Satanist. yes you shall know them by there works.

My youngest nipper at a Catholic School in the last 2 years their had a new Principle who knew nothing of Christianity how does a idiot like that get into a position like that ? it knew nothing about how to run a school in fact, but it sure did know how to deal with anything that may reflect on that Schools image, that's the number one issue as to why it was put in charge, because it knew how to manipulate any situation legally, God help any one who may be sexually abused at that school, because the victim would not have a hope in hell of making a case, with it in charge.
Not to mention that my wife worked at that school at the time and I met this Principle many times and it was always crawling up to me like a dog, but it could be savage as a mongrel in a instant, what a nasty thing it was, so nice and overly sweet and then barking mad, much like Hitler, because it was trying to save face to the majority or it would bee seen for the moron that it truly was, so it had to put forward this facade to save face just like Hitler did.
That's how it is with all people in top positions nowadays more so then ever, it's demanded for such positions or you will not get such a job position.

Public relations officer ? do you know what that in details, that you are full of it in trying to lead others astray is the key point.

 

[epostle]

Who is it that is claiming that the sex abuse has stoped ? when did it stop ? what was the date.

On June 10, we showed that .006% (3 priests) of the over 50,000 members of the clergy had a substantiated accusation made against them between June 1, 2017 and July 31, 2018. No religious or secular body can beat those numbers. INCLUDING YOURS.
CLERGY ABUSE SURVEY SHOWS MEDIA INFLUENCE

As far as I did in fact know of such going on was that it was going on in the 70's, I knew it and I talked about such with who ever would listen and a would not as they would get offended and totally reject such talk, just like you are doing now with me. I know how it works.

How old were you in the '70's? You say you knew what was going on and talked with who ever would listen but you never reported anything to the police. We've been over this before.

 

[Nondenom40]

For the millionth time, Catholicism does not teach salvation by works apart from grace, that is an anti-Catholic myth.

McCarthy (along with many other Calvinist anti-Catholics) is unwilling or unable to understand the relationship of human free will to God’s grace. We believe we can cooperate with God’s grace in order to “merit.” Yet that very merit is itself completely an act of God’s grace. Here is some more relevant information to consider:

The Second Council of Orange (529 A.D.), accepted as dogma by the Catholic Church, dogmatically taught in its Canon 7:

If anyone asserts that we can, by our natural powers, think as we ought, or choose any good pertaining to the salvation of eternal life . . . without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . . he is misled by a heretical spirit . . . [goes on to cite Jn 15:5, 2 Cor 3:5]
​

Likewise, the ecumenical Council of Trent (1545-63): Chapter 5, Decree on Justification:

. . . Man . . . is not able, by his own free-will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight.
​

Canon I on Justification:

If anyone saith that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.​

But the myth won't go away.

The existence of a measure of human free will in order for man to cooperate with God’s grace does not reduce inevitably and necessarily to Semi-Pelagianism, as Luther, Calvin, and present-day Calvinists wrongly charge. The Catholic view is a third way. Our “meritorious actions” are always necessarily preceded and caused and crowned and bathed in God’s enabling grace. But this doesn’t wipe out our cooperation, which is not intrinsically meritorious in the sense that it derives from us and not God . . . Second Orange again:

The reward given for good works is not won by reason of actions which precede grace, but grace, which is unmerited, precedes actions in order that they may be accomplished meritoriously.
​

Catholic theologian Ludwig Ott describes the Catholic view:

As God’s grace is the presupposition and foundation of supernatural good works, by which man merits eternal life, so salutary works are, at the same time gifts of God and meritorious acts of man. (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Rockford, Illinois: TAN Books, 1974 [orig. 1952], 264)
​

St. Augustine wrote:

What merit of man is there before grace by which he can achieve grace, as only grace works every one of our good merits in us, and as God, when He crowns our merits, crowns nothing else but His own gifts? (Ep. 194, 5, 19; in Ott, 265)
​

The concept of merit and its corollary reward is well-supported in Scripture (Mt 5:12; 19:17, 21, 29; 25:21; 25:34 ff.; Lk 6:38; Rom 2:6; 1 Cor 3:8; 9:17; Col 3:24; Heb 6:10; 10:35; 11:6; 2 Tim 4:8; Eph 6:8).

These works are meritorious only when they are performed in the state of grace and with a good intention

But the myth (salvation by works) won't go away.
​

Jesus himself tells his disciples: ‘I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me (by the state of grace), and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit (for heaven). If a man does not abide in me (by mortal sin) . . . he can do nothing’ – he can bear no fruit for heaven; just as the branch that is cut off from the vine cannot produce any grapes.

By sanctifying grace we are children of God. Only by sanctifying grace do we have a right to heaven as our heritage. By purely natural good acts, such as even the sinner can perform, heaven cannot be merited as a reward; we must be in the state of grace, a child of God. Only after human nature has been united to God by grace and raised up above it’s own nature can good acts, which proceed from this supernaturally elevated nature, be directed towards the possession of God in the hereafter. Only in this way can we merit the vision of God in heaven, since it completely surpasses the powers of our pure human nature.

By sanctifying grace we become living members of the mystical body of Christ, one with Christ our Head. Thus our acts become acts of Christ, who, in an incomprehensible way, is living and working in [p. 264] his members. Through this intimate union with Christ, our Mediator before the Father, we merit the happiness of heaven.

Catholicism has repeatedly condemned Pelagianism/Semi-Pelagianism (salvation by works) as a heresy, but the myth won't go away.
for further reading, see Catholic Merit vs. Distorted Caricatures (James McCarthy)

Numerous issues here but i'll only address a couple. First, people in general don't say that catholicism teaches salvation by works alone. It doesn't matter what you add to the gospel; faith + __________ anything else FOR salvation is heresy. Faith plus works is still a false gospel.
You cited trent. Well heres another canon from the 6th session;

CANON XX.-If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema.

Read Romans 1:16 and show us where Paul says anything about the gospel AND _______ are the power of God for the salvation of jews.....You won't find that in there. The gospel by itself is THE power of God for salvation. Trent gets it wrong again.

 

[Nancy]

.
My eldest brother (for convenience sake, call him Larry) was ordained to the
priesthood in 1965 and remained so for 53 years prior to passing away at
the age of 78 in May of 2018.

Larry graduated from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. He taught
at the University of San Diego and has served in parishes in San Diego,
Mexico, Portland, the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, and Huntington
Beach. Larry served as the Director of Pastoral Ministry and the first Rector
of the Conventual Church of Our Lady of the Angels at the Franciscan
Renewal Center, Scottsdale, Arizona.

In 1973, he served at University of San Diego as an Assistant Professor of
Religious Studies in the College of Arts and Sciences. Larry then served as
the University Chaplain and Director of Campus Ministry from September
1974 until June 1984.

Larry entered the Franciscan Order to become a Friar in 1987 after serving
as a priest of the Diocese of San Diego for 22 years. During his semi
retirement years, Larry, he was a priest at the Mission San Luis Rey in
Oceanside, California.

Supposing Rome's version of Christianity is mistaken? (This is only a
hypothetical question; I'm not alleging Rome is mistaken.) The ramifications
of that would be too awful to contemplate. It would mean that my deceased
brother is right now, this very moment, in Hell regardless of the quality and
the extent of his devotion to The Church. It would also mean that my
brother was a minister of darkness rather than light; thus everyone he
influenced was led down a path leading directly to the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where they would be facing a mode of death akin
to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

I can only imagine the crushing, unspeakable dismay that my brother would
undergo were it to turn out that all the while he sincerely believed himself
serving Christ's best interests, he was only serving himself.
_

Hello @Webers_Home
Just now seeing this post. My Grandmother, a devout Catholic was (JUST like my sweet mom) one who exhibited every single fruit of the Spirit of the same God that non Catholics do. If my Grandma is not saved, then...it is all a lie. God does not care about our "beliefs" or "doctrine"...He sees the motives of hearts and attitudes; actions! If your brother loved The Lord...be comforted!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

On June 10, we showed that .006% (3 priests) of the over 50,000 members of the clergy had a substantiated accusation made against them between June 1, 2017 and July 31, 2018. No religious or secular body can beat those numbers. INCLUDING YOURS.
CLERGY ABUSE SURVEY SHOWS MEDIA INFLUENCE

How old were you in the '70's? You say you knew what was going on and talked with who ever would listen but you never reported anything to the police. We've been over this before.

I agree that the media are running a witch hunt, but what do you expect from such a whore.

Fact is that many disregarded it within the Church's all at the time and such things were hidden and I am not saying that all Priest were at all as such.

I was at School in the 1970's and even I knew it was going on for crying out loud and down at the pub such talk was around openly talked about such things and I went to work on the week ends and holidays with my dad and he would go to the pub at the end of the day with me, so yes I was listening to all that was said by all in the pubs from 1971.
People who had been raped by such would talk about such things at the pub you know and I seen them carrying on about such, telling the whole world if they could but their was nothing that they could do. so what the hell could I do about such go see the cops, sure even if a white person had been attacked by a mob of blacks the cops would do nothing about such at all, I seen such all the time going on, I would be surprised if one night such did not go on. not to mention that the blacks had government lawyers who peddled the harassment card at police, so the police wanted nothing to do with such because they would get fined and all the rest. what can you do when some moron is constantly stealing and bashing others everyday ? such is called police harassment and racial prejudice BS card comes out, so they just let them go, because in court on paper it looks muggins has been harassed everyday for the last months and that constitutes harassment regardless of if muggins is out doing such day in day out.
Not to mention that the abos laughed about how stupid that the Law was that they could get away with so much, you see I could point such all out for what it truly is and the devil in the detail of all such cases, be it the sodomites or criminal louts that were let run loose on the good people who all knew but for some that did not want to see the reality of such in fact because they were just to stuck up to identify the facts.
Oh they would not want to be seen talking about such a subject that they claim to be above. they don't want to know about it because I am better than you type stuck up pretentious snob. not to mention that type are in the Church and it's them who have destroyed it and driven the majority of people out in fact, because such are just like the Pharisees.

 

[GodsGrace]

For the millionth time, Catholicism does not teach salvation by works apart from grace, that is an anti-Catholic myth.

McCarthy (along with many other Calvinist anti-Catholics) is unwilling or unable to understand the relationship of human free will to God’s grace. We believe we can cooperate with God’s grace in order to “merit.” Yet that very merit is itself completely an act of God’s grace. Here is some more relevant information to consider:

The Second Council of Orange (529 A.D.), accepted as dogma by the Catholic Church, dogmatically taught in its Canon 7:

If anyone asserts that we can, by our natural powers, think as we ought, or choose any good pertaining to the salvation of eternal life . . . without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . . he is misled by a heretical spirit . . . [goes on to cite Jn 15:5, 2 Cor 3:5]
​

Likewise, the ecumenical Council of Trent (1545-63): Chapter 5, Decree on Justification:

. . . Man . . . is not able, by his own free-will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight.
​

Canon I on Justification:

If anyone saith that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.​

But the myth won't go away.

The existence of a measure of human free will in order for man to cooperate with God’s grace does not reduce inevitably and necessarily to Semi-Pelagianism, as Luther, Calvin, and present-day Calvinists wrongly charge. The Catholic view is a third way. Our “meritorious actions” are always necessarily preceded and caused and crowned and bathed in God’s enabling grace. But this doesn’t wipe out our cooperation, which is not intrinsically meritorious in the sense that it derives from us and not God . . . Second Orange again:

The reward given for good works is not won by reason of actions which precede grace, but grace, which is unmerited, precedes actions in order that they may be accomplished meritoriously.
​

Catholic theologian Ludwig Ott describes the Catholic view:

As God’s grace is the presupposition and foundation of supernatural good works, by which man merits eternal life, so salutary works are, at the same time gifts of God and meritorious acts of man. (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Rockford, Illinois: TAN Books, 1974 [orig. 1952], 264)
​

St. Augustine wrote:

What merit of man is there before grace by which he can achieve grace, as only grace works every one of our good merits in us, and as God, when He crowns our merits, crowns nothing else but His own gifts? (Ep. 194, 5, 19; in Ott, 265)
​

The concept of merit and its corollary reward is well-supported in Scripture (Mt 5:12; 19:17, 21, 29; 25:21; 25:34 ff.; Lk 6:38; Rom 2:6; 1 Cor 3:8; 9:17; Col 3:24; Heb 6:10; 10:35; 11:6; 2 Tim 4:8; Eph 6:8).

These works are meritorious only when they are performed in the state of grace and with a good intention

But the myth (salvation by works) won't go away.
​

Jesus himself tells his disciples: ‘I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me (by the state of grace), and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit (for heaven). If a man does not abide in me (by mortal sin) . . . he can do nothing’ – he can bear no fruit for heaven; just as the branch that is cut off from the vine cannot produce any grapes.

By sanctifying grace we are children of God. Only by sanctifying grace do we have a right to heaven as our heritage. By purely natural good acts, such as even the sinner can perform, heaven cannot be merited as a reward; we must be in the state of grace, a child of God. Only after human nature has been united to God by grace and raised up above it’s own nature can good acts, which proceed from this supernaturally elevated nature, be directed towards the possession of God in the hereafter. Only in this way can we merit the vision of God in heaven, since it completely surpasses the powers of our pure human nature.

By sanctifying grace we become living members of the mystical body of Christ, one with Christ our Head. Thus our acts become acts of Christ, who, in an incomprehensible way, is living and working in [p. 264] his members. Through this intimate union with Christ, our Mediator before the Father, we merit the happiness of heaven.

Catholicism has repeatedly condemned Pelagianism/Semi-Pelagianism (salvation by works) as a heresy, but the myth won't go away.
for further reading, see Catholic Merit vs. Distorted Caricatures (James McCarthy)

Great post.
What one does not WANT to believe/understand...
He never will.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Hello @Webers_Home. Just now seeing this post.

I didn't write it; that's not one of my posts.
_

 

[JohnPaul]

.
According to Jesus' statements at John 3:3-8, it's necessary for people to
undergo a birth by water and by the Spirit in order to enter and/or see the
kingdom of God.

Well; if perchance my deceased brother somehow failed to obtain the water
Jesus spoke about to the Samarian women in John 4:10-14, and the Spirit
that he spoke of to his countrymen in John 7:37-39, then I would have to
conclude that my brother didn't make it to safety when he passed away even
after 53 years of life on earth as a Priest/Friar because to my knowledge,
there no exceptions to the rule.
_

My deepest sympathies to you my brother.

If he believed in Christ as the son of God, and as our Lord and Savior, would he not be saved and have entered into the Kingdom of God?

 

[Nancy]

.


I didn't write it; that's not one of my posts.
_

You did not start this thread? Looks like you did post the very first post on this thread, and that is what I was replying to. No harm no foul..

 

[farouk]

Great post.
What one does not WANT to believe/understand...
He never will.

James 1.21: "receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls".

 

[Webers_Home]

.

You did not start this thread?

I started this thread, but I did not write that post you ran across about
someone's grandmother. In point of fact, I don't recall seeing that post
anywhere on this thread. Where did you find it?
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Phil 2:12 . . So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as
in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your
salvation with fear and trembling

Rome's interpretation of that passage pretty much echoes Santa Claus'
holiday practices. For example the lyrics from the classic jingle: Santa Claus
Is Coming To Town.

You better watch out, you better not cry,
Better not pout, I'm telling you why:
Santa Claus is coming to town

He's making a list, and checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice:
Santa Claus is coming to town.

He sees you when you're sleeping,
He knows when you're awake,
He knows if you've been bad or good,
So be good for goodness sake!

There's no grace in that song-- none at all --no generosity, no altruism, no
kindness, no charity, no love, no peace, no understanding, no sympathy, no
patience, no tolerance, no courtesy, no compassion, no forgiveness, viz:
there are no gifts in Santa's bag; only merit awards for those who prove
themselves worthy enough to deserve them.

But we know from other passages that an exemption from the sum of all
fears isn't a merit award, rather; it's a totally free-of-charge rescue from the
wrath of God by means of the ransom that Christ himself paid with his own
life's blood rather than out of the sinner's pockets, so to speak. In point of
fact the Greek word soteria, from which is translated "salvation" means
rescue, i.e. remove from peril.

But now once the sinner is removed from the peril of the sum of all fears,
he's expected to begin developing a life of piety (a.k.a. holiness) which
serves an altogether different purpose in the plan of salvation than escaping
the wrath of God.

The phrase "fear and trembling" was one of Paul's favorite colloquialisms; for
example:

"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and
Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling."
(1Cor 2:3-4)

And another:

"Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the
flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; not with
eye-service, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will
of God from the heart, with goodwill doing service, as to The Lord, and not
to men" (Eph 6:5-8)

"fear, and in trembling" doesn't mean Paul recommends shivering in terror
and anxiety like a frightened gerbil; but that a believer's attitude should be
free of pride, arrogance, and conceit, i.e. free of a superiority complex
and/or a master-race mentality; for example:

Paul was very courteous to the Corinthians, and made himself of no
reputation at all, even though he was one of The Lord's hand-picked apostles
and they were a bunch of pagan heathens at the time who deserved nothing
but the cold shoulder. Paul's attitude rubbed off on the Corinthians because
they in turn deferred to Paul's associates with fear and trembling just as he
had treated them all at one time.

"I had boasted to [Titus] about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But
just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to
Titus has proved to be true as well. And his affection for you is all the
greater when he remembers that you were all obedient, receiving him with
fear and trembling." (2Cor 7:14-15)

So then, what we're talking about here with "fear and trembling" is honor,
respect, submission, deference, and reverence rather than terror and
anxiety; and it's actually one of the Beatitudes.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt
5:3)

One of the basic components of "poor in spirit" is courtesy; which is grossly
lacking on many of today's forums. People on the internet are just too cruel
to each other; even people wearing the Christian label. Apparently what they
don't know is that their behavior reflects on Christ and makes him look bad.

Take for example David's tryst with Bathsheba that resulted in the death of
her husband. Nathan the prophet informed David that his conduct reflected
on The Lord so that instead of bringing glory to God, his conduct brought
disgrace. (2Sam 12:14)

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good
works and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matt 5:16)
_

 

[Nancy]

.


I started this thread, but I did not write that post you ran across about
someone's grandmother. In point of fact, I don't recall seeing that post
anywhere on this thread. Where did you find it?
_

I was speaking of my own grandmother and, here is what you wrote and under is what I replied to...it's not a thing, lol but here it is:
Webers_Home said: ↑
.
My eldest brother (for convenience sake, call him Larry) was ordained to the
priesthood in 1965 and remained so for 53 years prior to passing away at
the age of 78 in May of 2018.
Larry graduated from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. He taught
at the University of San Diego and has served in parishes in San Diego,
Mexico, Portland, the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, and Huntington
Beach. Larry served as the Director of Pastoral Ministry and the first Rector
of the Conventual Church of Our Lady of the Angels at the Franciscan
Renewal Center, Scottsdale, Arizona.
In 1973, he served at University of San Diego as an Assistant Professor of
Religious Studies in the College of Arts and Sciences. Larry then served as
the University Chaplain and Director of Campus Ministry from September
1974 until June 1984.
Larry entered the Franciscan Order to become a Friar in 1987 after serving
as a priest of the Diocese of San Diego for 22 years. During his semi
retirement years, Larry, he was a priest at the Mission San Luis Rey in
Oceanside, California.
Supposing Rome's version of Christianity is mistaken? (This is only a
hypothetical question; I'm not alleging Rome is mistaken.) The ramifications
of that would be too awful to contemplate. It would mean that my deceased
brother is right now, this very moment, in Hell regardless of the quality and
the extent of his devotion to The Church. It would also mean that my
brother was a minister of darkness rather than light; thus everyone he
influenced was led down a path leading directly to the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where they would be facing a mode of death akin
to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
I can only imagine the crushing, unspeakable dismay that my brother would
undergo were it to turn out that all the while he sincerely believed himself
serving Christ's best interests, he was only serving himself.
_
Nancy said: "Hello @Webers_Home
Just now seeing this post. My Grandmother, a devout Catholic was (JUST like my sweet mom) one who exhibited every single fruit of the Spirit of the same God that non Catholics do. If my Grandma is not saved, then...it is all a lie. God does not care about our "beliefs" or "doctrine"...He sees the motives of hearts and attitudes; actions! If your brother loved The Lord...be comforted! "

 

[Webers_Home]

.
One of the Church's earliest official proclamations regarding a purgatory was
Pope Leo X's Bull of Exurge Domine. In the year 1520 he stated, along with
some other things, that death is the termination not of nature but of sin, and
this inability to sin makes [purgatorial souls] secure of final happiness.

In other words: according to Leo X, the occupants of a purgatory are unable
to sin; consequently they won't commit any new sins while undergoing
discipline and purification.

I'm sure it can be seen right off just how essential it would be for souls in a
purgatory to be incapable of sinning, because if they weren't, then Rome’s
promise in CCC.1030, of an assured eternal salvation for purgatorians,
would be a tenuous guarantee indeed since each new sin committed while
interred in a purgatory would add time to the penitent’s original sentence;
with the very real possibility of potentially snow-balling to the point where
they would never be released.

If Pope Leo X's Bull of Exurge Domine is correct as regards the absence of
sin in purgatory then I would have to conclude that it's a very peaceful place
seeing as how everyone in residence there would be complying with the
Sermon On The Mount and all the beatitudes.

One of the things that I would really appreciate in Leo's purgatory is civility.
I've participated on better than thirty Christian internet forums beginning in
1997, and one of the things I've noticed is that too many people wearing the
Christian label have forgotten all about turning the other cheek. Oh m' gosh
you wouldn't believe how ugly, spiteful, and vindictive Christians can be
when they put their minds to it!

In Leo's purgatory; there's no cruelty of any kind; for example dishonesty,
malicious gossip, demeaning comments, thoughtless remarks, name-calling,
toxic rejoinders, discourtesy, chafing, quarrelling, bickering, mockery,
relentless ridicule,

. . . fault-finding, nit picking, spite, rivalry, carping, bullying, heckling,
intimidation, wiseacre retorts, needling, taunting, biting sarcasm, petty ill
will, yelling, ugly insinuations, cold-shouldering, calculated insults, snobbery,
elitism, arrogance, subterfuge, antisocial behaviors, sociopaths, crime, war,
despotism, oppression, injustice, human rights abuses, character
assassination, etc, etc, et al, and ad nauseam.

If Leo is correct. then we can expect that all the Christian virtues, every one
of them, are being exemplified 24/7/365 in purgatory.

However, if Leo's Bull is full of bull, then I think we can reasonably expect
purgatory's social environment to be little different than what we're
accustomed.

Most Catholics regard purgatory as a safety net whence they will be taken in
the event they fail to sufficiently measure up to God's standards. However,
purgatory is not all that easy to attain. According to the Catechism, CCC
1035, Catholics are just inches from the worst. Should it happen that they
leave this life with just one non absolved mortal sin on the books, just one,
they go directly to Hell; no stop-over in a half-way house. No, their trip is a
direct flight. Even if they've been a faithful Catholic for 49 years, they will
miss the boat just as if they had been a Hindu, or a Muslim, or an atheist. All
their years as a faithful Catholic will be stricken from the record and count
for naught.

FAQ: Does the Bible teach the existence of a purgatory?

A: Though there are numerous passages in the Bible that allude-- i.e.
suggest --the possibility; all such passages are indirect references rather
than obvious, clear-cut, black and white teachings; ergo: there's a very good
chance that purgatory is the product of human reasoning and a fertile
imagination.

However, passages that suggest one thing, can also be made to suggest
another, so I do not recommend putting too much stock in Rome's ideas. It
is much safer to assume the worst, and then begin preparing yourself for it
in the event that purgatory turns out to be a huge mistake, viz: just as there
are no second place winners in a gunfight, it just might be there are no
second place winners in matters related to Heaven and Hell.
_

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It's their Souls that are in Purgatory fool.
Where do you think that Jesus went to take the OT Saints and take them to Heaven, clown.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

.
● Phil 2:12 . . So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as
in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your
salvation with fear and trembling

Rome's interpretation of that passage pretty much echoes Santa Claus'
holiday practices. For example the lyrics from the classic jingle: Santa Claus
Is Coming To Town.

You better watch out, you better not cry,
Better not pout, I'm telling you why:
Santa Claus is coming to town

He's making a list, and checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice:
Santa Claus is coming to town.

He sees you when you're sleeping,
He knows when you're awake,
He knows if you've been bad or good,
So be good for goodness sake!

There's no grace in that song-- none at all --no generosity, no altruism, no
kindness, no charity, no love, no peace, no understanding, no sympathy, no
patience, no tolerance, no courtesy, no compassion, no forgiveness, viz:
there are no gifts in Santa's bag; only merit awards for those who prove
themselves worthy enough to deserve them.

But we know from other passages that an exemption from the sum of all
fears isn't a merit award, rather; it's a totally free-of-charge rescue from the
wrath of God by means of the ransom that Christ himself paid with his own
life's blood rather than out of the sinner's pockets, so to speak. In point of
fact the Greek word soteria, from which is translated "salvation" means
rescue, i.e. remove from peril.

But now once the sinner is removed from the peril of the sum of all fears,
he's expected to begin developing a life of piety (a.k.a. holiness) which
serves an altogether different purpose in the plan of salvation than escaping
the wrath of God.

The phrase "fear and trembling" was one of Paul's favorite colloquialisms; for
example:

"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and
Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling."
(1Cor 2:3-4)

And another:

"Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the
flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; not with
eye-service, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will
of God from the heart, with goodwill doing service, as to The Lord, and not
to men" (Eph 6:5-8)

"fear, and in trembling" doesn't mean Paul recommends shivering in terror
and anxiety like a frightened gerbil; but that a believer's attitude should be
free of pride, arrogance, and conceit, i.e. free of a superiority complex
and/or a master-race mentality; for example:

Paul was very courteous to the Corinthians, and made himself of no
reputation at all, even though he was one of The Lord's hand-picked apostles
and they were a bunch of pagan heathens at the time who deserved nothing
but the cold shoulder. Paul's attitude rubbed off on the Corinthians because
they in turn deferred to Paul's associates with fear and trembling just as he
had treated them all at one time.

"I had boasted to [Titus] about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But
just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to
Titus has proved to be true as well. And his affection for you is all the
greater when he remembers that you were all obedient, receiving him with
fear and trembling." (2Cor 7:14-15)

So then, what we're talking about here with "fear and trembling" is honor,
respect, submission, deference, and reverence rather than terror and
anxiety; and it's actually one of the Beatitudes.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt
5:3)

One of the basic components of "poor in spirit" is courtesy; which is grossly
lacking on many of today's forums. People on the internet are just too cruel
to each other; even people wearing the Christian label. Apparently what they
don't know is that their behavior reflects on Christ and makes him look bad.

Take for example David's tryst with Bathsheba that resulted in the death of
her husband. Nathan the prophet informed David that his conduct reflected
on The Lord so that instead of bringing glory to God, his conduct brought
disgrace. (2Sam 12:14)

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good
works and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matt 5:16)
_

Nothing truly reflects on Christ and makes him look bad at all ever ! what a clown as only a person lacking faith would see it that way, get over yourself, nothing reflects on Christ himself at all ever and any clown that claims so is peddling a mans works religion in fact.
One who is poor in Spirit is not a good thing, this is in a hope in that they will attain the Kingdom of Heaven knowingly that they are as such a repentant Sinner of faith. it's not their poor in Spirit that's looked up to at all.

Courtesy for what ? ignorance ! one does not have to give way to ignorance to set the standard as to what fools may think, as it's only what God thinks and not any man that one should be worried about.
if one frets as to offending clowns, then you are lost as to God and only cast a mans works religion. one may as well join the Communist Atheist morons in that regard or stand over men will rule over one like the Pharisees.

There is nothing wrong with healthy debate bro and once that is gone then you have nothing and just because you may get upset, well that's your problem if you are not man enough to deal with it.

Poor in Spirit is not courtesy at all, it may be that one knows that they are, as to why they are courteous only because they have attained that level at least into regards.
St Stephen and Mother Mary were the only two who were full of the Holy Spirit, so such is in fact is Grand.

In a utopia you would have no conflict but such would come with a price of your lose of freedom.

Bagging Santa claws have you ever seen the show The Grinch that stole Christmas, the Grinch got the message in the end.

 

[Enoch111]

One of the Church's earliest official proclamations regarding a purgatory was
Pope Leo X's Bull of Exsurge Domine.

I believe you are mistaken. This Bull was actually a condemnation of Martin Luther. But here's the amazing thing regarding Purgatory -- Pope Leo agreed with Jan Hus:

"30. Some articles of John Hus, condemned in the Council of Constance, are most Christian, wholly true and evangelical; these the universal Church could not condemn...

37. Purgatory cannot be proved from Sacred Scripture which is in the canon..."