If the second coming happens before the thousand years?

[Marty fox]

No we can not be in the thousand years now, when did the thousand years start?
Who is left to be alive during the thousand years?
All the people who return with Christ, all the people who are alive on earth are caught up in the air to meet Christ as He returns, then all the saved are there with Him and He comes down and destroys all the unbelievers and their armies.
And we inherit the earth for a thousand years, all believers at this point have been resurrected.
Then afterwards, the final judgement, God makes us new heavens and a new earth.

In Jude, that number is not literal, it is just a very large number of people who come back with Christ, all the saints who died in the lord up until that time.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

The thousand years started at the cross

 

[Marty fox]

Oh, you see that Armageddon was actually fulfilled in 70 AD, and is *not* a future event?

Yes

 

[Scott Downey]

Oh, you see that Armageddon was actually fulfilled in 70 AD, and is *not* a future event?

They are called preterists, and there are various degrees of preterism, up to no future yet to occur scripturally what so ever.
I am a not a preterist, I am a futurist, not all scripture is yet fulfilled.

 

[Scott Downey]

The thousand years started at the cross

well makes no sense, it's been 2000 years and Christians worldwide are still being oppressed by the current evil age.
If otherwise why would Paul write what he did? And Paul wrote this after Christ's resurrection.

Galatians 1:3-5

New King James Version

​

3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh gee, why didn't I see that? 1000 years = Eternity.

(Thousand Years) in Revelation 20:1-6 represents the Lord's eternal realm where one day is a thousand years, no literal earthly time, that's correct

Jesus Is The Lord

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Marty fox]

Irrelevant since we are only talking about Armageddon not Babylon.




No, it also doesn't show Darth Vader or Winnie the Pooh. The beast and FP are cast into the LOF at the end of the battle not before the battle!



I'm ignoring the rest of questions since the first ones are so badly composed.

No we are talking about Babylon because she is part of Armageddon in chapter 16

If you can’t answer the rest of the questions then it’s useless to continue to debate

I posted relevent scriptures which proves you wrong all you have to answer is yes or no you need to put your pride aside

 

[Scott Downey]

Persecutions of Christians are not any less, and we have many false faiths, such as Islam in the name of which much persecutions and trials have been inflicted on Christians. There is no rule worldwide of Christianity yet. That only happens when Christ appears a second time apart from sin for our salvation from this present evil age!

Hebrews 9:28

New King James Version

​

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Your claim is false, the book of Revelation was written in 96AD, some 26 years after your claims of Armageddons fulfillment in 70AD, as if John was writing of a historical event

What's Randy have in his magic bag of tricks next, smiles!

I think Randy is saying Marty Fox is saying Armageddon already happened.

 

[Scott Downey]

Armageddon cannot have occurred yet as none of the surrounding events also mentioned in scripture occurred back in the late first century times. One big one is the second appearing of Christ. There is only ever a second time, not a third, fourth etc... appearing of Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

The battle at Armageddon was Rome destroying Jerusalem in 70AD and the people were the Jews who realize that they rejected and killed their God and messiah

The events seen below "Didn't" take place in your claims of 70AD Jerusalem, I'm waiting for your symbolic allegory in removing the "Future Literal" seen below, Big Smiles!

Revelation 16:14-21KJV
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[Scott Downey]

Second appearing is written of here and obviously still a future event. Cause the wicked are still doing wicked things on the earth.
And we still are surrounded by the unbelieving.
Jesus has not been revealed in flaming fire taking vengeance on the wicked and unbelieving.

1Thessalonians 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think Randy is saying Marty Fox is saying Armageddon already happened.

Thanks, my post was deleted

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes

Some think I'm a Partial Preterist. Clearly, I'm not!

 

[Randy Kluth]

They are called preterists, and there are various degrees of preterism, up to no future yet to occur scripturally what so ever.
I am a not a preterist, I am a futurist, not all scripture is yet fulfilled.

Yea, I've been called a Preterist because I hold to the idea that the Abomination of Desolation was fulfilled in 70 AD. But Preterism, by definition, finds both the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation largely fulfilled in the 1st centuries of the Church. I don't.

Some prophecies of the Bible were historically fulfilled, such as Jesus' virgin birth and his death on the cross. Other prophecies are still future, such as Antichrist and the 2nd Coming, and, I think, the Millennial Reign, or Messianic Reign, as the Jews might call it.

I do not see the Millennial Reign as strictly the exaltation of Israel over the rest of the world. This was OT language given at a time when the whole world was pagan and opposed to Israel. But in the light of the Abrahamic promises, Israel will reign together with many believing nations in the Messianic Kingdom.

Many Amillennialists strongly oppose the idea of a literal Millennial Age because they falsely believe that all Premillennialists believe in the exclusive exaltation of Israel and in the restoration of the Law as a renewed form of atonement by the Law. This is completely false.

 

[Randy Kluth]

(Thousand Years) in Revelation 20:1-6 represents the Lord's eternal realm where one day is a thousand years, no literal earthly time, that's correct

Do I really have to explain to you that 1000 years does not equal Eternity? "One day is as a thousand years" does *not* mean 1 day = 1000 years. Not only is one thousand years not equal to Eternity, but it isn't even like it.

 

[Truth7t7]

Some think I'm a Partial Preterist. Clearly, I'm not!

Yes you are, you believe Daniel's AOD is fulfilled, that alone puts you in the partial preterist camp

 

[Scott Downey]

Yea, I've been called a Preterist because I hold to the idea that the Abomination of Desolation was fulfilled in 70 AD. But Preterism, by definition, finds both the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation largely fulfilled in the 1st centuries of the Church. I don't.

Some prophecies of the Bible were historically fulfilled, such as Jesus' virgin birth and his death on the cross. Other prophecies are still future, such as Antichrist and the 2nd Coming, and, I think, the Millennial Reign, or Messianic Reign, as the Jews might call it.

I do not see the Millennial Reign as strictly the exaltation of Israel over the rest of the world. This was OT language given at a time when the whole world was pagan and opposed to Israel. But in the light of the Abrahamic promises, Israel will reign together with many believing nations in the Messianic Kingdom.

Many Amillennialists strongly oppose the idea of a literal Millennial Age because they falsely believe that all Premillennialists believe in the exclusive exaltation of Israel and in the restoration of the Law as a renewed form of atonement by the Law. This is completely false.

I have had debates with preterists, and truly they go nowhere fast, it feels like a different religion to me their views. Of course some things were fulfilled in scripture, that leaves some things left to come. The preterism I have problems with is where Revelation in its entirety is done, over and out, it gets worse though as full preterists can also believe Christ already returned in a second appearing at the destruction of Jerusalem and God already created the new earth and heavens, and that NERO was the antichrist in Revelation. Such beliefs destroy the blessed Hope of Christ's second appearing to deliver us from this present evil age.

They live in fantasy worlds where things are getting better and better, and that the church has delayed the second coming because they are lazy and have not converted the entire world to become Christianized. This one guy said Christ can not return until Christians rule the entire world. Which means Christ returned in 70 AD and also will return another 3rd time. Such beliefs I view as evil distortions.

 

[WPM]

Everyone not there at Armageddon. Armageddon is a small place 66 miles from Jerusalem. All of an army will be killed there not everyone globally. Verse 15 promises a rule over the nations past the battle there.


Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them (future tense verb) with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Armageddon is not even mentioned there. You force it into the text to support your error. This again shows us that Premils are not literalists, only when it suits their theology.

 

[WPM]

I have had debates with preterists, and truly they go nowhere fast, it feels like a different religion to me their views. Of course some things were fulfilled in scripture, that leaves some things left to come. The preterism I have problems with is where Revelation in its entirety is done, over and out, it gets worse though as full preterists can also believe Christ already returned in a second appearing at the destruction of Jerusalem and God already created the new earth and heavens, and that NERO was the antichrist in Revelation. Such beliefs destroy the blessed Hope of Christ's second appearing to deliver us from this present evil age.

They live in fantasy worlds where things are getting better and better, and that the church has delayed the second coming because they are lazy and have not converted the entire world to become Christianized. This one guy said Christ can not return until Christians rule the entire world. Which means Christ returned in 70 AD and also will return another 3rd time. Such beliefs I view as evil distortions.

But the Op is presenting an Amil argument. He believes in a future coming of Christ. Can you not address his argument?

 

[Timtofly]

The thousand years started at the cross

How can the thousand years start 40 years prior to Armageddon?