Illusion

[aspen]

Private ownership.

We own nothing in this world. As soon as we embrace this truth, we will realize that nothing can be taken from us - possessions will stop being our slavemasters.

We are using the possessions God has blessed us with - we are called to manage His creation, not hoard it.

 

[Rach1370]

All very true. It also helps to remember that we take nothing with us from this world. But having said that, I don't think its harmful (unless its so important to you it becomes and idol) to have things, and work towards leaving a legacy for your children.
Like you said above....we can use what we have for a godly purpose...its not the things themselves that are evil, its how we view them/use them. It's a constant battle, I think, to remind ourselves of that...in the day to day scramble. But a blessing, I think, to be able to walk around and know that over everything is a greater purpose...that seeking and knowing God will always be more rewarding and enjoyable than a new car! Sort of freeing!

 

[Strat]

This is just back door covetousness from those who lust after what belongs to others but lack the integrity to admit it,it is none of your business what others have,it is none of your business what they do with what they have,if it were not for the concept and freedom of people to own things these self appointed hall monitors and meddling litt would have nothing,they are the same people who tell us not to judge and that we have no right to impose any kind of morality or responsability on anyone....just an obligation to cover the consequences and bills when they come due....because i know its coming i look forward to the day when these little self rightous controls freaks finally tap the well dry....since most of them produce and have never produced anything for the first time in their lives they will know what"nothing" and "poor" actually means.

 

[us2are1]

Private ownership.

We own nothing in this world. As soon as we embrace this truth, we will realize that nothing can be taken from us - possessions will stop being our slavemasters.

We are using the possessions God has blessed us with - we are called to manage His creation, not hoard it.

Give it all up. Fast and pray, in the wilderness for forty days, without preparing your way back to the pig pen and you will see just how true it is. The Lord will meet you there in person guaranteed.

 

[Strat]

Apparently holding on to one's computer is allowed.

 

[Rach1370]

Apparently holding on to one's computer is allowed.

 

[aspen]

All very true. It also helps to remember that we take nothing with us from this world. But having said that, I don't think its harmful (unless its so important to you it becomes and idol) to have things, and work towards leaving a legacy for your children.
Like you said above....we can use what we have for a godly purpose...its not the things themselves that are evil, its how we view them/use them. It's a constant battle, I think, to remind ourselves of that...in the day to day scramble. But a blessing, I think, to be able to walk around and know that over everything is a greater purpose...that seeking and knowing God will always be more rewarding and enjoyable than a new car! Sort of freeing!

Nothing wrong with using the things God has blessed us with - and nothing wrong with sharing it. There is also no reason to be upset when something is stolen from us or we feel cheated out of some promise of material compensation or reward. All material possession is illusion. Any attempt to hoard wealth is based on fear and a lack of faith.

This is just back door covetousness from those who lust after what belongs to others but lack the integrity to admit it,it is none of your business what others have,it is none of your business what they do with what they have,if it were not for the concept and freedom of people to own things these self appointed hall monitors and meddling litt would have nothing,they are the same people who tell us not to judge and that we have no right to impose any kind of morality or responsability on anyone....just an obligation to cover the consequences and bills when they come due....because i know its coming i look forward to the day when these little self rightous controls freaks finally tap the well dry....since most of them produce and have never produced anything for the first time in their lives they will know what"nothing" and "poor" actually means.

You know nothing about my financial situation, Strat. I want for nothing, in my own life. But, by all means, keep ringing that BS bell.....you've got the home field advantage.

Also, I enjoy the computer God has allowed me to use - if He decided to give it to someone else, who am I to complain? I certainly would not lose any sleep over it. How about you?

 

[Rach1370]

This is just back door covetousness from those who lust after what belongs to others but lack the integrity to admit it,it is none of your business what others have,it is none of your business what they do with what they have,if it were not for the concept and freedom of people to own things these self appointed hall monitors and meddling litt would have nothing,they are the same people who tell us not to judge and that we have no right to impose any kind of morality or responsability on anyone....just an obligation to cover the consequences and bills when they come due....because i know its coming i look forward to the day when these little self rightous controls freaks finally tap the well dry....since most of them produce and have never produced anything for the first time in their lives they will know what"nothing" and "poor" actually means.

I'm not exactly sure what angle you are coming from here....are you talking about what Aspen had to say, or about people who go around saying we must give up everything in order to be godly?
Because...sure, I'd agree with you that mostly, people have no right to tell me what to do with my stuff...how much or what I have. But it's entirely another matter when we consider ourselves, in light of scripture and in light of where we feel God is pointing us. Some may feel God leading us to wealth, in order to help others, while others may feel God is calling them to discard their worldly belongings. Both is okay...as long as we're following God's plans for our lives...don't you think??

Nothing wrong with using the things God has blessed us with - and nothing wrong with sharing it. There is also no reason to be upset when something is stolen from us or we feel cheated out of some promise of material compensation or reward. All material possession is illusion. Any attempt to hoard wealth is based on fear and a lack of faith.

Well, I don't know about that. I think if someone stole my stuff I'd have plenty of reasons to be upset. Mostly because of the violation, I think. Someone breaking into your space, etc. Then there would be anger over the crime itself, more than the goods. But, yes, I think it would be okay to be upset at the goods going missing too. My parents just bought an ipad for my Aspergers son...he loves it, it calms him...a real boon. If it got stolen I would ache for my son, and yes, be upset that something which has value has been taken. But being upset about something being taken I think is still very different to placing such value on worldly goods that you're whole world is shaken when they are gone.

You know nothing about my financial situation, Strat. I want for nothing, in my own life. But, by all means, keep ringing that BS bell.....you've got the home field advantage.

Also, I enjoy the computer God has allowed me to use - if He decided to give it to someone else, who am I to complain? I certainly would not lose any sleep over it. How about you?

Um....maybe I'm wrong, but I thought he was talking to Son of Man, who advocated we give up everything. It seemed rather a strange song to sing when he was clearly using a computer! Not that I think having a PC is bad....it just tickled 'cause it seemed a tad contradictory!

 

[Strat]

Nothing wrong with using the things God has blessed us with - and nothing wrong with sharing it. There is also no reason to be upset when something is stolen from us or we feel cheated out of some promise of material compensation or reward. All material possession is illusion. Any attempt to hoard wealth is based on fear and a lack of faith.



You know nothing about my financial situation, Strat. I want for nothing, in my own life. But, by all means, keep ringing that BS bell.....you've got the home field advantage.

Also, I enjoy the computer God has allowed me to use - if He decided to give it to someone else, who am I to complain? I certainly would not lose any sleep over it. How about you?

You are a typical liberal hypocrite,always telling people not to judge how other people live,yet full of ideas and suggestions about how other people should live

I'm not exactly sure what angle you are coming from here....are you talking about what Aspen had to say, or about people who go around saying we must give up everything in order to be godly?
Because...sure, I'd agree with you that mostly, people have no right to tell me what to do with my stuff...how much or what I have. But it's entirely another matter when we consider ourselves, in light of scripture and in light of where we feel God is pointing us. Some may feel God leading us to wealth, in order to help others, while others may feel God is calling them to discard their worldly belongings. Both is okay...as long as we're following God's plans for our lives...don't you think??



Well, I don't know about that. I think if someone stole my stuff I'd have plenty of reasons to be upset. Mostly because of the violation, I think. Someone breaking into your space, etc. Then there would be anger over the crime itself, more than the goods. But, yes, I think it would be okay to be upset at the goods going missing too. My parents just bought an ipad for my Aspergers son...he loves it, it calms him...a real boon. If it got stolen I would ache for my son, and yes, be upset that something which has value has been taken. But being upset about something being taken I think is still very different to placing such value on worldly goods that you're whole world is shaken when they are gone.



Um....maybe I'm wrong, but I thought he was talking to Son of Man, who advocated we give up everything. It seemed rather a strange song to sing when he was clearly using a computer! Not that I think having a PC is bad....it just tickled 'cause it seemed a tad contradictory!

My angle ? havn't you noticed how obsessed some people are over what others have,constantly wagging their finger,constantly giving unwanted advice about what they should do with it....the bible tells us not to covet what belongs to our neighbor,to mind our own affairs and do what God has called us to do...this individual tells others they have no right to judge or impose morality on people...just pay their bills and shut up...he seems to fancy himself some kind Robin Hood like most of his kind do,but since this one claims to be a christian it would be nice if he would provide some biblical support for it.

 

[us2are1]

Apparently holding on to one's computer is allowed.

Gods transients own nothing. They eat God's food. They go where and do what they are told. Some of them walk through walls into different continents. Eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has prepared for those who love Him.

Why don't you believe this scripture?

21 So Jesus answered and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' it will be done.

14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

 

[Rach1370]

My angle ? havn't you noticed how obsessed some people are over what others have,constantly wagging their finger,constantly giving unwanted advice about what they should do with it....the bible tells us not to covet what belongs to our neighbor,to mind our own affairs and do what God has called us to do...this individual tells others they have no right to judge or impose morality on people...just pay their bills and shut up...he seems to fancy himself some kind Robin Hood like most of his kind do,but since this one claims to be a christian it would be nice if he would provide some biblical support for it.

I think there could be a fairly big difference between speculating about how we should live (meaning essentially ones' self!) and spouting off about how others should live....
But I would have to agree that I don't like others telling me how I should be living...I have God for that...His Holy Spirit convicts better than any person ever could.
I saw this shirt the other day...maybe it would be good for this: "I'm already ignoring better advice than yours."
I dunno....speculation and conversation is never a problem, I think. But people must realise that God has made us all different....it's therefore just a little silly to think that our life experiences and outcomes must be the same....that our 'lots' in life must all be equal. Our life must be what God has planned for us...and that's something that's between us, and God....no one else could really know...let alone be able to judge. I would perhaps say that there could be some exceptions....Church authority that you trust and know to be biblical...ditto with close friends. It does help to have some accountability, don't you think??

 

[Strat]

I think there could be a fairly big difference between speculating about how we should live (meaning essentially ones' self!) and spouting off about how others should live....
But I would have to agree that I don't like others telling me how I should be living...I have God for that...His Holy Spirit convicts better than any person ever could.
I saw this shirt the other day...maybe it would be good for this: "I'm already ignoring better advice than yours."
I dunno....speculation and conversation is never a problem, I think. But people must realise that God has made us all different....it's therefore just a little silly to think that our life experiences and outcomes must be the same....that our 'lots' in life must all be equal. Our life must be what God has planned for us...and that's something that's between us, and God....no one else could really know...let alone be able to judge. I would perhaps say that there could be some exceptions....Church authority that you trust and know to be biblical...ditto with close friends. It does help to have some accountability, don't you think??

Accountability yes,control,no....some here think legislation is the answer,government will simply take people's money by force of law and give it to who they please...usually those who live irresponsable lives but are eligable to vote and because of their own greed and envy will vote the treasury dry which they have already done...we are in the hole by trillions and yet there is never enough to satisfy them....and its not only the irresponsable,many think its governments job to pay for their kids college education,care for their elderly parents,something the bible plainy teaches is our own personal responsability...it couldn't be any more clear.

The hypocrisy of those on the left who tell us we have no right to impose our morality yet they have every right to our money is blatantly obvious but what would one expect from them,most of them consider themselves the elite of society with,if they will pardon the expression,the divine right of rule.....the "christian" variety think they have God on their side and he has instructed them to align themselves with what has become a Godless governemt to turn Christianity into nothing but a free lunch devoid of any godliness,rightousness,responsability or reverence for the laws of God......again i ask for biblical support of such from those calling themselves "christians"....the secular left don't need any explanations because they have no rules to start with,they are their own gods and receive revelations from themselves and their kind everyday.

 

[Brother James]

It's pretty simple, God owns everything because He made everything. God owns Christians because He bought us with a price. "And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art Thou to take the book, and to break its seals; for Thou wast slain, and didst purchase for God with Thy blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation." Revelation 5:9

Being a good steward is the best we can do. What does God want us to do with His property? What did Jesus teach through the parable of the servants to whom talents were entrusted? Righteousness, wisdom, and humility come into play.

 

[Strat]

It's pretty simple, God owns everything because He made everything. God owns Christians because He bought us with a price. "And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art Thou to take the book, and to break its seals; for Thou wast slain, and didst purchase for God with Thy blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation." Revelation 5:9

Being a good steward is the best we can do. What does God want us to do with His property? What did Jesus teach through the parable of the servants to whom talents were entrusted? Righteousness, wisdom, and humility come into play.

The decision is left to the individual because the individual and not government or some do gooder,pseudo christian,liberal spiritualist busy body will have to answer to God....when someone tells you everything belongs to God they tell you the truth,when they tell you that because everything belongs to God it means it belongs to them chances are you are dealing with a crook....the stuff that mega ministry scandals and political whoredom are made of.

 

[aspen]

The individual belongs to a larger whole - the Body and Bride of Christ. We focus too much on the individual in this country.

 

[Foreigner]

The individual belongs to a larger whole - the Body and Bride of Christ. We focus too much on the individual in this country.

-- But when we stand before God, we will be judged on what we did as individuals.

The sacrifices we made ourselves, what was in our heart, the stewardship of the finances God entrusted us with personally, the efforts we made as individuals to serve those in need.

He is not going to judge us on the collective success of a church, charity, or organization we belonged to.

He is also not going to judge us on how well we were able to force others to give/donate. He will deal with them individually, as well.

 

[Brother James]

Yes, I don't think God will give us extra credit if we are charitable with the money He had entrusted to others.

 

[aspen]

Yeah, you guys are right - jails are a much cheaper way to take care of the poor - and we all know that the Jail-fund Fairy pays for all the new jails and the prisoner upkeep so the taxpayers get to keep all their money, right?

 

[Foreigner]

Yeah, you guys are right...

-- I am glad you agree.

 

[Brother James]

Yeah, you guys are right - jails are a much cheaper way to take care of the poor - and we all know that the Jail-fund Fairy pays for all the new jails and the prisoner upkeep so the taxpayers get to keep all their money, right?

Who are all these "poor" who are not being taken care of? We have aid for dependent children, medicaid, medicare, social security, ssi, food stamps, wic, public housing assistance, the Earned Income Tax Credit, the Additional Child Tax Credit, the Pell grant education program, head start, general assistance, unemployment compensation, and who knows how many other programs for the poor? And yet they are so victimized that they turn to crime. Now, my family came from impoverished Appalachia where people didn't even have running water, much less cable TV, air conditioning, etc. And they were moral ethical people who did not turn to crime because they were poor. So poverty is not why people are in prison. Our poor are vastly richer than 85% of the world's population.

But for some on the left, no amount of assistance will ever be enough until everybody has exactly the same amout from some mythical fixed pie. And that kind of policy mindset will doom everyone, the poor and the middle class.