Important to Understand God's Word

[shturt678s]

And once again...Ol Jack comes in with the kill......bravo!!!!

took ya long enough...

Purposely took my time as learned awhile back not to be on time....the mortician and medical examiner were there waiting for me at my appointment...I showed up late forcing our Lord to reschedule my passing on...close one my brother...don't be early either.

Old late Jack

 

[Forsakenone]

Well as you two celebrate your kill….

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

But if one is born of the Spirit and the Word, the Man and his wife shall be One flesh, in case you haven’t heard.
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the only one wise and eternal God.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matt 23:28-33

35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee
his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire. Deut 4:35-36

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Yet to Guestman do I give the shoes off my feet.

 

[RANDOR]

satan sayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...."tell all the interpreted scriptures...do it German prison style.....show no emotion.....but be careful in your sentences, use them wisely...or they will notice you have no testimony and are not praising God in any form or fashion, just sound good."

 

[Forsakenone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWb_02Ip9LI

 

[shturt678s]

Well as you two celebrate your kill….

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

But if one is born of the Spirit and the Word, the Man and his wife shall be One flesh, in case you haven’t heard.
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the only one wise and eternal God.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matt 23:28-33

35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee
his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire. Deut 4:35-36

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Yet to Guestman do I give the shoes off my feet.

Thank you for your response and caring sir!

Only a head's up. IJn.5:7, 8 The R.V. is right in not even noting in the marginal notes the interpolation found in the A.V. How completely spurious this insertion is, often called "Comma Joanneum." has been discussed exhaustively, and in today's time one just simply has to google up where long ago I received my information from Horn, Introduction, 7th ed., vol. IV, pp. 448-471 for openers.

Old Jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWb_02Ip9LI

Thank you again for the "bread and water" url, enjoyed, however I go pretty much with the what the God the Spirit, the water, and the blood say being God's own testimony; these three testifiers are furnished by Him, by Him because this testimony of His deals with His own Godman Son.

Old appreciative Jack

 

[Guestman]

Well as you two celebrate your kill….

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

But if one is born of the Spirit and the Word, the Man and his wife shall be One flesh, in case you haven’t heard.
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the only one wise and eternal God.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matt 23:28-33

35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee
his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire. Deut 4:35-36

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Yet to Guestman do I give the shoes off my feet.

Many are unaware that the latter part of 1 John 5:7 according to the King James Bible is spurious. The words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" are not contained in the most ancient manuscripts that make up the Bible canon.

Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654. The Catholic Jerusalem Bible explains in a footnote that this text is not found in any of the early Greek or the best Latin manuscripts of the Bible. It is not genuine, being added, no doubt, to try to support the Trinity.

This addition is no different than the Samaritans building a temple on Mount Gerizim perhaps in the 4th century B.C.E. as a rival to the temple in Jerusalem. In support of that, an interpolation was made in the Samaritan Pentateuch at Exodus 20:17. The command was added, as if part of the Decalogue, to build an altar of stone on Mount Gerizim and to offer sacrifices there. Even up to modern times the Samaritans have celebrated festivals such as the Passover on Mount Gerizim, at what they believe to be the site of the ancient temple.

It is thus vital that a person do a thorough search or have a Bible that is accurate, so as not to fall into the trap of the churches who have promoted the Trinity doctrine since the 4th century. Follow the pattern of the 1st century Boreans, of which Acts 17:11 says: "Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."

 

[StanJ]

Many are unaware that the latter part of 1 John 5:7 according to the King James Bible is spurious. The words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" are not contained in the most ancient manuscripts that make up the Bible canon.

Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654. The Catholic Jerusalem Bible explains in a footnote that this text is not found in any of the early Greek or the best Latin manuscripts of the Bible. It is not genuine, being added, no doubt, to try to support the Trinity.

This addition is no different than the Samaritans building a temple on Mount Gerizim perhaps in the 4th century B.C.E. as a rival to the temple in Jerusalem. In support of that, an interpolation was made in the Samaritan Pentateuch at Exodus 20:17. The command was added, as if part of the Decalogue, to build an altar of stone on Mount Gerizim and to offer sacrifices there. Even up to modern times the Samaritans have celebrated festivals such as the Passover on Mount Gerizim, at what they believe to be the site of the ancient temple.

It is thus vital that a person do a thorough search or have a Bible that is accurate, so as not to fall into the trap of the churches who have promoted the Trinity doctrine since the 4th century. Follow the pattern of the 1st century Boreans, of which Acts 17:11 says: "Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."

You probably mean v8 not verse 7, and yes the KJV got it wrong. The NIV renders it accurately as;

For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.​

We don't need this one verse to support the Triune nature of God.

 

[Forsakenone]

Thank you again for the "bread and water" url, enjoyed, however I go pretty much with the what the God the Spirit, the water, and the blood say being God's own testimony; these three testifiers are furnished by Him, by Him because this testimony of His deals with His own Godman Son.

Old appreciative Jack

I appreciate the heads up on the interpolation.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:29-32 KJV

But I have noticed that 'spirit' is often cited as 'Spirit' by some in 1 John 5:8 KJV, so how can one reconcile that the three bear witness from heaven is the eternal God, since the world is matter whether the massless expanse of space called heaven and the elements of mass called earth when it is written " I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:23 KJV and John 18:36 KJV "My kingdom is not of this world:"
How do I reconcile that the Father, Word and Holy Ghost are one. Ephesians 3:9 KJV

 

[shturt678s]

I appreciate the heads up on the interpolation.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:29-32 KJV

But I have noticed that 'spirit' is often cited as 'Spirit' by some in 1 John 5:8 KJV, so how can one reconcile that the three bear witness from heaven is the eternal God, since the world is matter whether the massless expanse of space called heaven and the elements of mass called earth when it is written " I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:23 KJV and John 18:36 KJV "My kingdom is not of this world:"
How do I reconcile that the Father, Word and Holy Ghost are one. Ephesians 3:9 KJV

Thank you for your response again!

Finally down to my paygrade, IJn.5:8, "the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are for one thing." Again there testimony is one identical thing, the three agree without the least deviation in their one testimony in regard to the Godman Jesus and to His deity. The Spirit (not "spirit") is the One testifying, He who is the truth itself because two others testify with Him and substantiate even in a legal, formal way all that anyone can require in regard to testimony. The fact that these two others are not persons does not disqualify them. In Heb.6:18 the second is not a second person; in Jn.5:36 Jesus names His "works" as testifying.
Old Jack

 

[Guestman]

You probably mean v8 not verse 7, and yes the KJV got it wrong. The NIV renders it accurately as;

For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.​

We don't need this one verse to support the Triune nature of God.

No, I meant 1 John 5:7 for it says in full in the KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one."(highlighted words are spurious) Verse 8 says in the KJV: "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

It is interesting that many make a statement, but never support it with sound Scriptures. Just as the Jews were unwilling to reason (yes, reason) on the evidence (Scriptural as well as physical) that Jesus was the promised Messiah when Jesus walked the land of Israel, so likewise many today just blindly accept the "status quo" that the churches promote. If the churches say that the Trinity is "good to go", then without so much as a whisper, and verification, its "okay", without a serious inspection.

It is like the Israelites during the 1st century who failed to carefully examine the Hebrew Scriptures so as to recognize that Jesus was the Messiah, and in which Jesus said to the nation of fleshly Israel just before his death: "If you, even you, had discerned on this day the things having to do with peace—but now they have been hidden from your eyes. Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will.....dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.”(Luke 19:42-44)

As a result, the Jews continuously caused trouble for Jesus and his genuine disciples.(Matt 12:1-8; 16:1-4; Acts 17:5) To this day, they have never grasped who the Messiah is. So likewise of the Trinity. Many never give serious consideration to the whole Bible, but pick a Scripture without checking its authenticity or correctness.

For example, some have used Acts 7:59 in the KJV, that says: "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." The word "God" is an addition to supposedly provide evidence for the Trinity, but is not in the oldest Greek manuscripts, such as the Vatican 1209 and Codex Sinaiticus of the 4th century C.E.

Or some have used Titus 2:13 to "prove" the Trinity (which the KJV reads: "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ"). But this does not prove that Jesus and God are one and the same. Paul wrote at Titus 1:4: "To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from the God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."(KJV) Thus, Paul noted a clear distinction between God and Jesus.

Or 1 Timothy 3:16, which says in the KJV: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh." But anyone "worth his salt" can quickly identify this as being tampered with in order to support the Trinity. The original reading was, not God, but "he who" (Greek hos, not theos), pointing to Jesus Christ.

These are a few of the instances (such as also Acts 20:28; Heb 1:8; Phil 2:6) in which some have tried to tamper with or twist the Scriptures to give support for the Trinity.

 

[StanJ]

No, I meant 1 John 5:7 for it says in full in the KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one."(highlighted words are spurious) Verse 8 says in the KJV: "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Ok well there's the problem. The Greek does not have those words you show in bold above. The Greek states; For there are three that testify.
That's it. The rest of that verse was added by the KJV translators and sadly followed by some subsequent translation. All the modern English translation don't show those words, nor do the modern Spanish, French or German.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
Anybody who expects to obtain an understanding of God's word on an
internet forum is delusional. These places are rife with bull sessions and self
taught armchair experts; but very lean on competent instruction.

To Whom It May Concern:

†. Matt 28:18-20 . . All authority has been given to me in heaven and on
earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, teaching them to
observe all things that I have commanded you.

If you're relatively inexperienced with Christ's teachings; it is essential that
you leave here now, before you get too used to this kind of environment,
and find yourself some competent instruction because discipleship is a
teaching arrangement in which there is one teacher and everybody else is a
student. Internet forums are typically a morass of teachers and very few
students, if at all; and the teaching caste is typically all arguing amongst
themselves; which, according to Matt 28:18-20, is not the Lord's preferred
way of instructing his disciples.

Some years ago I was invited to a home Bible study by a fellow welder at
work. I asked him if his group was led by a competent Bible teacher. He said
"No; we don't have a teacher. The group teaches itself. In other words: we
speak as the Spirit leads us to speak." I declined.

†. Luke 6:39 . . A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not
both fall into a pit?

Buen Camino
/

 

[StanJ]

-
Anybody who expects to obtain an understanding of God's word on an
internet forum is delusional. These places are rife with bull sessions and self
taught armchair experts; but very lean on competent instruction.

To Whom It May Concern:

†. Matt 28:18-20 . . All authority has been given to me in heaven and on
earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, teaching them to
observe all things that I have commanded you.

If you're relatively inexperienced with Christ's teachings; it is essential that
you leave here now, before you get too used to this kind of environment,
and find yourself some competent instruction because discipleship is a
teaching arrangement in which there is one teacher and everybody else is a
student. Internet forums are typically a morass of teachers and very few
students, if at all; and the teaching caste is typically all arguing amongst
themselves; which, according to Matt 28:18-20, is not the Lord's preferred
way of instructing his disciples.

Some years ago I was invited to a home Bible study by a fellow welder at
work. I asked him if his group was led by a competent Bible teacher. He said
"No; we don't have a teacher. The group teaches itself. In other words: we
speak as the Spirit leads us to speak." I declined.

†. Luke 6:39 . . A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not
both fall into a pit?

Buen Camino
/

I agree...one should have an understanding before they come on a public forum to debate God's word. Not knowing proper hermeneutical exegesis is sadly the norm these days.
BTW how do you do those little red crosses on the verses?

 

[Webers_Home]

how do you do those little red crosses on the verses?

I use Microsoft Word to compose my posts. It has a very large symbols chart
to choose from. I would imagine that any modern word processing software
has something similar.

Another way to make the cross is by use of the ANSI Character Set; which is
a combination of the Alt key + a number code; but the numbers only work if
you type them with your keyboard's number pad.

For example; to make the cross, hold down the Alt key whle typing 0134 on
the number pad and when you let go of the Alt key the cross will appear. It will
be black of course; but it's a simple matter to color it with the palette provided
by Christianity Board's editing tools.

Buen Camino
/

 

[shturt678s]

Thank you folks for caring!

Only a head's up from a lower paygrade. There are always a few on almost every forum that have enough of God's truth to redound anyone's salvation. Some may just show up then go away as in back and forth, however they're there. The only issue is their posts may seem fallacious, but that doesn't negate that they are on forums posting. On this specific forum our Lord even has some of the forum's staff as a part of the former not trying to score any points with them as have been known to even come after them when they deviate too far from the truth, not that I'm anybody.

Our Lord set things up so that even a dummy like me can grasp our Lord's word without any anglisized "Hermeneutical exegesis." Anyone can use IIPet.1:20, 21 by interpreting the Word gong from the ancient languages forward to the English. Most of the 'big boys' today interpret from the English backwards to the ancient languages throwing in a little Greek and Hebrew in so sounds 'good.'

The bottom line, opinion only, these threads partially fulfills one's Heb.10:25, etc.

Appreciate you good folks and please don't take me wrong as is only an opinion from the two-bits section.

Old Jack's opinion

 

[StanJ]

I use Microsoft Word to compose my posts. It has a very large symbols chart
to choose from. I would imagine that any modern word processing software
has something similar.

Another way to make the cross is by use of the ANSI Character Set; which is
a combination of the Alt key + a number code; but the numbers only work if
you type them with your keyboard's number pad.

For example; to make the cross, hold down the Alt key whle typing 0134 on
the number pad and when you let go of the Alt key the cross will appear. It will
be black of course; but it's a simple matter to color it with the palette provided
by Christianity Board's editing tools.

Buen Camino
/

Thanks, I thought it might be a BB code as I only post IN thread. I know the † via the alt key, but I thought it may have been an easy BB code when quoting scripture.