In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth

[JohnDB]

Well I would exhort you to submit your "findings" to you r pastor for verification or some mature saint you trust.

Pastors and teachers are given to the body for our maturing and submitting things we see for verification is safe and validates what God may have given you!

As I said- to you it is a big deal, but I am not concerned whether the cool of the day is morning as you believe or near sunset and Jewish believers, rabbis and several scholars I respect have said.

I have submitted it...
Even to a true Biblical scholar who writes research papers that become popular sermons a few years later.

And it has been received as absolutely true...with bells on truth.

But you as a Bible professor wouldn't be interested in what I know...

 

[Gregory]

I have submitted it...
Even to a true Biblical scholar who writes research papers that become popular sermons a few years later.

And it has been received as absolutely true...with bells on truth.

But you as a Bible professor wouldn't be interested in what I know...

I don't do this often, but with you I am going to do it.

Your "oh, I'm just a broken down construction worker, and you are a Bible professor who wouldn't be interested in what I know" attitude is a disgusting form of bad Christianity. You need to repent and get right with God, and Ronald Nolette for this silly altercation. Christians don't act this way with other Christians.

 

[JohnDB]

I don't do this often, but with you I am going to do it.

Your "oh, I'm just a broken down construction worker, and you are a Bible professor who wouldn't be interested in what I know" attitude is a disgusting form of bad Christianity. You need to repent and get right with God for this silly altercation. Christians don't act this way with other Christians.

I gave him everything but a fully footnoted dissertation. I drew him a complete roadmap of how to find the information quite easily and effectively. Anybody with any sort of resource library (as a self professed Bible professor should) could have a complete dissertation on this (complete with numbered footnotes) inside of an hour.

Not sure why he keeps asking for mine. I have led our Sunday School class with this lesson once...but it's just a page of notes. Not a complete dissertation.

Like I said...I'm just a construction worker...I don't create dissertations...I just read the ones my friends write. But none of them wrote this one.

 

[Gregory]

I gave him everything but a fully footnoted dissertation. I drew him a complete roadmap of how to find the information quite easily and effectively. Anybody with any sort of resource library (as a self professed Bible professor should) could have a complete dissertation on this (complete with numbered footnotes) inside of an hour.

Not sure why he keeps asking for mine. I have led our Sunday School class with this lesson once...but it's just a page of notes. Not a complete dissertation.

Like I said...I'm just a construction worker...I don't create dissertations...I just read the ones my friends write. But none of them wrote this one.

I want to appologize for being so blunt, may God go with you. You should say something similar to Ronald, and he should say somthing similar to you. That is how good Christians act. We can have differing opinions of things, but after even a heated discussion, we place our hands on each others backs and say "glory be to God" and walk away friends. But we come back together to disuss other topics again.

I hope that is what you and Ronald do.

 

[JohnDB]

I want to appologize for being so blunt, may God go with you. You should say something similar to Ronald, and he should say somthing similar to you. That is how good Christians act. We can have differing opinions of things, but after even a heated discussion, we place our hands on each others backs and say "glory be to God" and walk away friends.

I hope that is what you and Ronald do.

Blunt is good...don't mind it a bit. I really am used to blunt with a lot of explitives and adjectives and adverbs that are unsuitable for a Christian forum...or even a heathen forum. That's what a construction worker is used to...and I really am.

But I also have a passion for scriptures. I try to stick with what I truly know. The sunrise thing I discovered as a theme and then personally witnessed in Israel in Tiberius on the bank of the pond they call the Sea of Galilee or Lake Tiberius was incredible. I had heard...but until you get up at first light and see and feel it there... you really don't understand it. (My wife enjoyed watching me get up and watch but hated the early hours)

I am always willing to admit my faults. I don't enjoy it...but it's the only way to be right. And I'd always rather be right... whatever it takes.

 

[Gregory]

Blunt is good...don't mind it a bit. I really am used to blunt with a lot of explitives and adjectives and adverbs that are unsuitable for a Christian forum...or even a heathen forum. That's what a construction worker is used to...and I really am.

But I also have a passion for scriptures. I try to stick with what I truly know. The sunrise thing I discovered as a theme and then personally witnessed in Israel in Tiberius on the bank of the pond they call the Sea of Galilee or Lake Tiberius was incredible. I had heard...but until you get up at first light and see and feel it there... you really don't understand it. (My wife enjoyed watching me get up and watch but hated the early hours)

I am always willing to admit my faults. I don't enjoy it...but it's the only way to be right. And I'd always rather be right... whatever it takes.

This is interesting, because Ronald also went to Jerusalem, and he found as he talked to people that the end of the day was what was referred to as the "cool of the day". Do you see the dilemma you both stepped into?

But it was him that repeatedly put out the olive branch, telling you that he could believe that the 'cool of the day' was either in the morning hours before sunup, or in the evening as the sun goes down. You didn't seem to want anything to do with that olive branch.

Thats why I say to reach out to Ronald. You need not express your faults, but do express a sorrow for the argument. It didn't need to happen. You and Ronald need to be friends. You are both studious, passionate Christians. We need you both to be on the same side with Christ. Thank you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have submitted it...
Even to a true Biblical scholar who writes research papers that become popular sermons a few years later.

And it has been received as absolutely true...with bells on truth.

But you as a Bible professor wouldn't be interested in what I know...[/QUOTE/]

And who would that scholar be? If his papers have become popular sermons his name is not a secret.

Well setting aside your vain presumptiousness of what I wouldn't be interested in, your anger is showing greatly because I am not overly concerned whether the cool of the day is eveining or morning.

But if you wish to compare scholars, the ones I rely on have preached around the globe, written dozens of books, known by millions and respected for their knowledge of Hebrew Culture and language! But even that is irrelevant.

What now has become paramount is your attitude. You have gotten angry just because I have been taught differently bo scholars other than you nameless one and your self.

If you want to send me ytou rresearch, I would gladly look at it. Just PM and I wil PM back how to mail it to me.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sure thing there big E guy....

Since you claim to be a "teacher" you shouldn't be listening whatsoever to someone like myself who is nothing more than a broken down old construction worker. You know do much more... you don't need a bit of my help grabbing an inexhaustive Concordance off the shelf and looking up the word "Sunrise" or "Daybreak" and knowing the scriptures surrounding them.

After all...I'm the broken down stupid construction worker with nothing better to do than post on the internet wackanoodle theologies and you are the recognized college professor who teaches the next generation of pastors.

You know pride hidden in false humility is just as disgusting! If you think it is very important, I have invited you to show why! If all you wish is to create you r strawmen and hurl your ad-hominem assaults, then it is time to end this conversation before it sinks further down the septic system you seem to want it to drag down to.

Wow just because I don't arbitrarily bow down to your decision without even seeing th ework you did (or God supposedly showed you)., you hurl all these cow pies? C'mon man.

Convince me instead of insulting me.

 

[JohnDB]

You know pride hidden in false humility is just as disgusting! If you think it is very important, I have invited you to show why! If all you wish is to create you r strawmen and hurl your ad-hominem assaults, then it is time to end this conversation before it sinks further down the septic system you seem to want it to drag down to.

Wow just because I don't arbitrarily bow down to your decision without even seeing th ework you did (or God supposedly showed you)., you hurl all these cow pies? C'mon man.

Convince me instead of insulting me.

Not claiming false humility...I am a construction worker... Electrician by trade.

I haven't ever claimed to be a teacher or scholar or anything else. Just an average guy. Unlike you who have claimed scholarship to the point of being a professor instructor.

I drew you a complete roadmap. You claim it's worthless. Not worth looking at.
You then doubled down using what I have been told are logical fallacies. (Not that I really understand them completely)

I asked you to follow the roadmap even giving samples...and there's a reason why this "sunrise" is important as I hunted at in some of the nuances.

You continue on with fire and brimstone anger and hostility...why?

I'm thinking that there's more here than meets the eye on this one.

 

[Gregory]

Not claiming false humility...I am a construction worker... Electrician by trade.

I haven't ever claimed to be a teacher or scholar or anything else. Just an average guy. Unlike you who have claimed scholarship to the point of being a professor instructor.

I drew you a complete roadmap. You claim it's worthless. Not worth looking at.
You then doubled down using what I have been told are logical fallacies. (Not that I really understand them completely)

I asked you to follow the roadmap even giving samples...and there's a reason why this "sunrise" is important as I hunted at in some of the nuances.

You continue on with fire and brimstone anger and hostility...why?

I'm thinking that there's more here than meets the eye on this one.

Sorry John, I am only seeing a sort of fire and brimstone anger and hostility coming from you. Just for your information.

 

[JohnDB]

When proc

Sorry John, I am only seeing a sort of fire and brimstone anger and hostility coming from you. Just for your information.

I'm not angry...
Wayyyy past and over it.

 

[JohnDB]

And now I'm concerned about posting up even a shortened version of an explanation because of plagerism...

 

[Gregory]

When proc

I'm not angry...
Wayyyy past and over it.

Thats good, I am happy for you.

 

[Gregory]

And now I'm concerned about posting up even a shortened version of an explanation because of plagerism...

You have implied that there is something big about knowing that the 'cool of the day' has to be just before sunup. Can you tell us why it is so passionate for you? And say it in your own words.

 

[JohnDB]

You have implied that there is something big about knowing that the 'cool of the day' has to be just before sunup. Can you tell us why it is so passionate for you? And say it in your own words.

Because it's a theme referring to Christ's resurrection victory and the personal relationship we have with Him today as a result.

The whole Old Testament is themed with Jesus. All of the stories foreshadowing His coming and His sacrifice and His personal relationship with each of us.

This one part here in Genesis is showing that personal relationship aspect. The other various bits throughout the Old Testament show different features of what having a relationship with Jesus is all about.
Sin being destroyed.
A new life/name.
Triumph over evil.
Grace/forgiveness is extended.
Answers being given.
Lives are saved.
Victory over certain death.
All sorts of themes and attributes of this relationship because of the Victory Jesus had. And I believe that the personal relationship is very important...it's more than just scholarship being important...it's the very foundation stone of the faith we hold.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not claiming false humility...I am a construction worker... Electrician by trade.

I haven't ever claimed to be a teacher or scholar or anything else. Just an average guy. Unlike you who have claimed scholarship to the point of being a professor instructor.

I drew you a complete roadmap. You claim it's worthless. Not worth looking at.
You then doubled down using what I have been told are logical fallacies. (Not that I really understand them completely)

I asked you to follow the roadmap even giving samples...and there's a reason why this "sunrise" is important as I hunted at in some of the nuances.

You continue on with fire and brimstone anger and hostility...why?

I'm thinking that there's more here than meets the eye on this one.

Well I went backed and looked at all your posts.

You went a lot into the creation week with Christo del Rio and with me you just said it was a theme and mentioned several OT events. that is far from a roadmap, more like a hint. If you have a study, I will look at it. But until you show me why I should think it is a big deal, I don't know why you are burdened to think it is other than you telling me.

Well you need to post teh roadmap, I am not going to chase hints.
I am not angry in the least, but tire of your assaults and hurt feelings as it seems because I haven't followed your hints.

YOu can think what you wish, you are entitled to your own opinions, nort you rfacts as to what you think I am thinking.
I will look at your study-just post it. If you won't then I think we are at th eend of this and you can post the last post between you and I.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Because it's a theme referring to Christ's resurrection victory and the personal relationship we have with Him today as a result.

The whole Old Testament is themed with Jesus. All of the stories foreshadowing His coming and His sacrifice and His personal relationship with each of us.

This one part here in Genesis is showing that personal relationship aspect. The other various bits throughout the Old Testament show different features of what having a relationship with Jesus is all about.
Sin being destroyed.
A new life/name.
Triumph over evil.
Grace/forgiveness is extended.
Answers being given.
Lives are saved.
Victory over certain death.
All sorts of themes and attributes of this relationship because of the Victory Jesus had. And I believe that the personal relationship is very important...it's more than just scholarship being important...it's the very foundation stone of the faith we hold.

Is this the roadmap you speak of?

What is the point of the morning to these? Are you trying to say they can only happen in the sunrise? People can't get saved at night? Why do you believe teh cool of teh day is critical to these things you are listing?

 

[Gregory]

Because it's a theme referring to Christ's resurrection victory and the personal relationship we have with Him today as a result.

The whole Old Testament is themed with Jesus. All of the stories foreshadowing His coming and His sacrifice and His personal relationship with each of us.

This one part here in Genesis is showing that personal relationship aspect. The other various bits throughout the Old Testament show different features of what having a relationship with Jesus is all about.
Sin being destroyed.
A new life/name.
Triumph over evil.
Grace/forgiveness is extended.
Answers being given.
Lives are saved.
Victory over certain death.
All sorts of themes and attributes of this relationship because of the Victory Jesus had. And I believe that the personal relationship is very important...it's more than just scholarship being important...it's the very foundation stone of the faith we hold.

I believe I see what you are saying. Lets see if I am right.

When sin is destroyed, the person can go forth with a newness of life, just like a new sunrise, and a new day. The sunrise being a newness of life/name.
A triumph over evil brings new light and a newness of life, similar to a new sunrise and a new day.

Am i getting your point?

These kind of themes do not have the same affect if the sun is down, right?

 

[JohnDB]

I believe I see what you are saying. Lets see if I am right.

When sin is destroyed, the person can go forth with a newness of life, just like a new sunrise, and a new day. The sunrise being a newness of life/name.
A triumph over evil brings new light and a newness of life, similar to a new sunrise and a new day.

Am i getting your point?

These kind of themes do not have the same affect if the sun is down, right?

OK...got my laptop out and gonna use it instead of my phone so I can be more verbose instead of using such clipped expressions as I do with my Phone.

The Sunrise symbolism theme is used across the Whole of Scriptures and figures heavily in scriptures. No other time of day is mentioned as much as Sunrise, Daybreak, Dawn and Morning and there is a reason for it. Much of your Typology is usually configured from the Torah. (first five books of Moses)

This "cool of the Day" sets up the very first portion of the symbolic meaning. The Hebrew for "There was Evening and there was morning...." is obviously a bit different than this section...but the poetry is a bit different. But the meaning is the exact same. What it means is this Personal relationship with our Creator and the effects from having a personal relationship is what is going to be focused upon with this symbol as it is mentioned throughout scriptures.

Now in the Old Testament and during the time period the action was happening Sunrise was considered something of "magic time" and time period when God intervened in some fashion. Abraham is mentioned as having several actions during this time...So was God. (Abraham being God's friend)
Lot was drug out of Sodom...at Sunrise
Jacob wrestled with God and got his new name Israel...at Sunrise
Egypt went into mourning...at Sunrise
Israelites started crossing the Red Sea...at Sunrise
Manna appeared every day....at Sunrise
The Walls of Jericho fell....At Sunrise
Gideon's fleece gave him answers....at Sunrise
Gideon's first victory happened....at Sunrise

I could go on for a very very long time with all the things that happened during Sunrise...like such stories as in Chronicles and Kings, Jonah, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and many many more including in the New Testament...beyond even just the Resurrection Morning. It is today seen as "a new day" in the life of a believer...you are correct in that. But its kinda not quite hitting the nail on the head. Sunrise is just the start of the day...The big burning Sun is coming. (like I said...sunrise takes well over an hour in Israel.)

All it requires is picking up an Exhaustive Concordance and using the key words I emboldened in the above section where I did so to see that this is a very very long study indeed. There is a lot that comes out of having the personal relationship with Christ...from opportunities to listen and learn something important (like Sampson missed and Jonah didn't want to learn) to unbelievable victories when all hope was lost.

But in the beginning...before mankind had sinned....There was God talking with Adam and Eve at sunrise. God "Finding out"/listening to what they thought was important, getting good advise, learning about their world. Just like the Apostles did with Jesus on a regular basis.
One of the best parts of Heaven is going to be our ability to just chit chat with Jesus on a daily basis...because all the important stuff is out of the way and long been discussed ages ago.

 

[JohnDB]

BTW... @Gregory
You never showed whether you read this or not.