In the book of Revelation it mentions 'a little season' twice.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Except, IMO, that is not the manner in which these things are being applied in Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 20. A little season is meaning it's duration once the little season begins. In the meantime this little season in both accounts are irrelevant since they only matter once they begin. For example, the millennium. Regardless where the millennium logically fits, this little season after it is not relevant during it. Nothing during the millennium is going to be involving events pertaining to the little season that follows, during the millennium.

What are some of the things that the little season will be involving?

1) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog

2) to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

3) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

None of these things, in any sense, can be taking place during the millennium if it is not until after the millennium that these things then take place. Why would anyone feel the need to argue with that logic?

Non Premils have this taking place throughout their proposed millennium---deceive the nations--the fact non Premils can not deny that nations are still being deceived as we speak, and some nations have continued to be deceived for going on 2000 years now, the same 2000 years most Amils have satan bound in the pit during.

And, for the millionth time, you have misrepresented Amil (and I guess Postmil, also, since you are referring to "Non Premils"). Amils do NOT have Satan doing during the thousand years what it describes him as doing after he is loosed, as if we believe there is no difference between him being bound and being loosed. You keep trying to claim that which is just a flat out LIE.

Based on how we understand Satan's binding, we are NOT doing that, which is all that matters. It only seems like we're doing that from YOUR understanding of his binding which has him not being able to deceive or do anything at all, but that is meaningless and doesn't give you the right to misrepresent our view by acting as if we believe that there is no difference between his activities when he is bound and when he is loosed. That is NOT the case, so STOP acting like it is. I can only assume that you are purposely LYING about what we believe at this point since you continually misrepresent our view despite being corrected many times.

Not to mention. The non Premil millennium, that view has battles happening all throughout it, both spiritual battles and literal battles. An example of a literal battle would be when a believer is being persecuted by someone, and in some cases, leading to their martyrdom.

Where does it say that Satan's binding relates to him being bound from persecuting people? Nowhere.

The non Premil version of the millennium doesn't even agree with this in Isaiah 2:4, where this in verse 4 is being applied to their proposed millennium---and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isaiah 2:4 relates to "the last days" which other scripture indicates began in the days of the first coming of Christ and last until His second coming. Peter referred to the prophecy from Joel 2:28-32 about the last days in reference to what was happening on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:16-21. In 2 Peter 3:3-4 Peter indicated that the last days were the days during which people would scoff at the promise of Christ's second coming. So, you have no basis whatsoever for applying "the last days" to a time period AFTER Christ's second coming when other scripture applies "the last days" to the time period between His first and second coming.

That really sounds like Isaiah 2:4, doesn't it? Not.

In Isaiah 2:4--nation shall not lift up sword against nation--obviously involves numerous nations doing these things. Therefore, which nations should we assume are doing these things if we apply this to the here and now in any sense? It still requires one nation not lifting up sword against another nation. Then another nation doing likewise, where that nation is not lifting up sword against another nation, so on and so on.

You often interpret literal text figuratively and figurative text literally. That text is not referring to world peace, but rather only applies to believers who are taught to love others and live in peace with others during this age.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are being unfair here or you have reading comprehension. I did not use chagpt to do any of my thinking for me here. I used it in order to reframe what I said so that what I said might be easier for some to follow, since I don't exactly claim I have stellar writing skills. Granted, some in here don't have writing skill issues, except I do and I admit I do. Then when I use chatgpt to help me here, people like you take that way out of proportion and apply it in a manner as if I'm letting chatgpt do my thinking for me. That I'm letting it make my decisions for me, as to how I should be interpreting this or should be interpreting that. Which means some of you are being hypocritical when you insist I am misrepresenting your view. But it's not misrepresenting what I'm using chagpt for in this case, by implying I'm so desperate, that I have to resort to consulting chatgpt in order to let it do my thinking for me?

LOL. This is hilarious to me that you are complaining about something you said being misrepresented after you have misrepresented Amil so many times. It doesn't feel very good to have something you say being misrepresented, does it? Maybe you should think about not doing that yourself.

 

[Davidpt]

The "LITTLE season" for Satan's release was a time period of less than 40 years. How do I know that? Because Joshua 24:7 once reminded the Israelites that "ye dwelt in the wilderness a LONG season", which we know was 40 years of wilderness wanderings (Deut. 8:2 - "And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness..." A "long season" equals 40 years, according to scripture. A "little season" will therefore be less than forty years.

Everyone is forgetting the text which tells us when Satan's "little season" was already in progress. John in Revelation 12:12 warned those he was writing to that an enraged Satan "HAS come down to you, having great wrath, because he knoweth he hath but a SHORT TIME." That "short time" or "little season" of less than forty years was THEN in progress as John was writing Revelation.

The question then arises: just when was Revelation being written by John? This year can easily be deduced from Revelation's time-relevant language to a date just prior to the catastrophic AD 60 Laodicean earthquake, just before that cocky, self-assured church experienced that overwhelming disaster.

So Satan's "little season" or "short time" of less than 40 years of being released to deceive the nations once more (after the millennium's ending point in the first century) was THEN in progress in AD 60. In other words, Satan's "little season" at the end of the millennium has expired long, long ago back in the first century.

Which would have to logically mean that his binding is during when he still has access to heaven before he is cast out into the earth. After all, it makes zero sense that he would be having great wrath while depicted locked up in the pit, right? his great wrath has be during a time when he is not bound in the pit. Obviously. Except how is it reasonable that his binding can fit somewhere during when he hasn't been cast unto the earth first? Since I don't see that being reasonable, nor do I see it being reasonable that he would be having great wrath while bound in the pit, what other choices are there?

Before satan is cast unto the earth, he still has access to heaven in some sense. Then once he sees he is cast unto the earth he then has great wrath, knowing that he only has a short time. Neither of these fit Revelation 20 and his thousand year binding.

Revelation 20:1 ¶And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled

Where does it give the impression he knows he has a short time here, and that he is having great wrath at the time?

If we factored in this as well---and after that he must be loosed a little season---then tried to be objective about things--thus ignoring Premil vs Amil---this certainly sounds like, on the surface anyway, it could fit when he realizes he has but a short time, and that he then has great wrath because of it. But then that would have to mean that the thousand years fit before he is cast out of heaven. I don't see that making sense, therefore, even though it appears that maybe--and after that he must be loosed a little season---could fit this---he knows he has a short time here, and that he is having great wrath because he knows his time is short---when logically it can't. Or can it? Who knows? Maybe it can? Nor can when he is bound a thousand years fit with having great wrath at the time.

To be fair here. This is just as problematic for Premil. Premil has his short time, which involves great wrath, leading to his binding in the pit rather than to his demise in the LOF. What about when he is loosed from the pit? he no longer has great wrath even though he knows the very next thing in store for him is his demise in the LOF? Between being bound in the pit and his demise in the LOF, I would think he would have more of a reason to have great wrath if he knows that he has but a short time until his demise in the LOF rather than he knows he has but a short time until he is bound in the pit.

All these views have their share of problems, including Amil, Premil, and what you are proposing.

 

[David in NJ]

A) Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

B) Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The question is, is the little season recorded in A) meaning the same little season recorded in B)? Because if it is, it would be absurd for any Premil to insist that this does not prove Amil in that case.

What I would like to accomplish in this thread before the OP is eventually ignored altogether and that we are in here debating post trib vs pretrib lol, or whatever, is this. Those who think that A) is the same little season as B), list reasons why it is. Likewise, anyone that thinks they are not the same little season, list reasons why they are not.

Currently, my position is that they are not the same little season in both accounts. And here is at least one reason why.

Per B) when looking what follows, none of the camp of the saints meant, are killed by anyone. Only those coming against the camp of the saints are killed by anyone. In this case, they are killed by God because He devours them with fire. As to the little season per A). Obviously, saints are being killed left and right throughout that little season.

I have more reasons I can come up with besides just this. But for now, this alone is enough reason to conclude they are not the same little season unless the opposition can prove that the camp of saints meant in Revelation 20:7-9, that some of them, maybe even many of them, are being killed throughout B). Obviously, if any of the camp of saints meant in Revelation 20:7-9 are killed and are being killed during B), no way in a million years, in that case, could Revelation 20:7-9 be supporting Premil then.

AGREE = they are not the same little season for the OBVIOUS = which you clearly stated

 

[3 Resurrections]

If the thousand years ended in 60 AD,...

That's not quite what I wrote. I wrote that the "little season" or "short time" of Satan's release after the millennium ended had already begun some time before John was writing Revelation in AD 60. That "little season" did not begin in AD 60. The "little season" began back in AD 33 with Christ's resurrection-day ascension to the Father (as in John 20:17 when Jesus told Mary He was ascending to the Father at that point). That was when Satan the "accuser of the brethren" was cast out of heaven down to earth with his devils (after he lost the war in Rev. 12 to Michael and his angels), to once again deceive the nations in "great wrath". Satan knew back in AD 33 that his "short time" or "little season" of deceiving the nations wouldn't last very long after the end of the millennium in AD 33. It would last less than 40 years at that point. That is why Satan was so furiously desperate at the time. The clock was ticking down.

This is why we have a lot of warnings against deception in the NT writings. "Be not deceived...", etc.. Satan was then walking about like a roaring lion, seeking those he could devour, taking individuals captive at his will, etc. Lots of deception by the Satanic realm going on in that first century. But to counter this, there was also the gift of the Holy Spirit poured out on all flesh, to stand against this ramped-up level of Satan's deception of the nations.

...when do you think it began?

The millennium of Satan's deception being bound which ended in AD 33 had first begun all the way back in 968/967 BC, with the foundation stone of Solomon's temple being laid down. The millennium was a literal thousand years of a God-approved physical temple worship system which helped bind Satan's deception of the nations, along with the ministry of the OT prophets operating during this time. This millennium with the physical temple foundation stone was only a precursor which pointed forward to the "more glorious" spiritual temple not made with hands, of which Christ became "the chief cornerstone" which the builders had rejected, and with believers as "living stones" being built upon Christ the True foundation stone.

In other words, when do you think that Jesus began to reign...

The second person of the Trinity has ALWAYS reigned and will ALWAYS reign from eternity past into eternity future. There are new aspects of that perpetual reign that have been revealed over time (such as His elevation to become our crowned Great High Priest in heaven at His resurrection-day ascension), but that doesn't mean His reign over all creation began on that day. Psalms 45:6-7 and Hebrews 1:8 tells us "But unto the Son he says: Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". We are also told in Psalms 145:13 that "Thy kingdom is a kingdom of all ages, and thy dominion is in all generations".

Look at it in geometry terms: Christ's perpetual reign could be compared to a line stretching in both directions to eternity. Satan's millennial binding for a literal thousand years was only an "A" to "B" segment portion of that perpetual line of Christ's eternal reign. Like this...

<----Christ's reign-----•A-----(Satan's deception of the nations bound for 1,000 years)-------B•----Christ's reign-------->

Point "A" began the millennium in 968/967 BC, and point "B" ended the millennium in AD 33 with Christ and the "First resurrection".
Satan's "little season" of renewed deception of the nations began at point "B" in AD 33, and lasted less than 40 years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's not quite what I wrote. I wrote that the "little season" or "short time" of Satan's release after the millennium ended had already begun some time before John was writing Revelation in AD 60. That "little season" did not begin in AD 60. The "little season" began back in AD 33 with Christ's resurrection-day ascension to the Father (as in John 20:17 when Jesus told Mary He was ascending to the Father at that point). That was when Satan the "accuser of the brethren" was cast out of heaven down to earth with his devils (after he lost the war in Rev. 12 to Michael and his angels), to once again deceive the nations in "great wrath". Satan knew back in AD 33 that his "short time" or "little season" of deceiving the nations wouldn't last very long after the end of the millennium in AD 33. It would last less than 40 years at that point. That is why Satan was so furiously desperate at the time. The clock was ticking down.

This is why we have a lot of warnings against deception in the NT writings. "Be not deceived...", etc.. Satan was then walking about like a roaring lion, seeking those he could devour, taking individuals captive at his will, etc. Lots of deception by the Satanic realm going on in that first century. But to counter this, there was also the gift of the Holy Spirit poured out on all flesh, to stand against this ramped-up level of Satan's deception of the nations.


The millennium of Satan's deception being bound which ended in AD 33 had first begun all the way back in 968/967 BC, with the foundation stone of Solomon's temple being laid down. The millennium was a literal thousand years of a God-approved physical temple worship system which helped bind Satan's deception of the nations, along with the ministry of the OT prophets operating during this time. This millennium with the physical temple foundation stone was only a precursor which pointed forward to the "more glorious" spiritual temple not made with hands, of which Christ became "the chief cornerstone" which the builders had rejected, and with believers as "living stones" being built upon Christ the True foundation stone.


The second person of the Trinity has ALWAYS reigned and will ALWAYS reign from eternity past into eternity future. There are new aspects of that perpetual reign that have been revealed over time (such as His elevation to become our crowned Great High Priest in heaven at His resurrection-day ascension), but that doesn't mean His reign over all creation began on that day. Psalms 45:6-7 and Hebrews 1:8 tells us "But unto the Son he says: Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". We are also told in Psalms 145:13 that "Thy kingdom is a kingdom of all ages, and thy dominion is in all generations".

Look at it in geometry terms: Christ's perpetual reign could be compared to a line stretching in both directions to eternity. Satan's millennial binding for a literal thousand years was only an "A" to "B" segment portion of that perpetual line of Christ's eternal reign. Like this...

<----Christ's reign-----•A-----(Satan's deception of the nations bound for 1,000 years)-------B•----Christ's reign-------->

Point "A" began the millennium in 968/967 BC, and point "B" ended the millennium in AD 33 with Christ and the "First resurrection".
Satan's "little season" of renewed deception of the nations began at point "B" in AD 33, and lasted less than 40 years.

Thanks for sharing your view, but I can't take it seriously since Jesus obviously did not begin to reign in 968/967 BC, but rather began reigning at the time when you say that Satan's little season began. While the Word was God before becoming flesh, it's talking about Him reigning as Jesus who is both God and man at the same time and He did not begin reigning as the God man until right after His resurrection.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Which would have to logically mean that his binding is during when he still has access to heaven before he is cast out into the earth. After all, it makes zero sense that he would be having great wrath while depicted locked up in the pit, right?

Only according to your false view that it's talking about him being literally chained up. But, it doesn't say he is bound from having great wrath. That is something you add to the text.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Which would have to logically mean that his binding is during when he still has access to heaven before he is cast out into the earth. After all, it makes zero sense that he would be having great wrath while depicted locked up in the pit, right? his great wrath has be during a time when he is not bound in the pit. Obviously. Except how is it reasonable that his binding can fit somewhere during when he hasn't been cast unto the earth first? Since I don't see that being reasonable, nor do I see it being reasonable that he would be having great wrath while bound in the pit, what other choices are there?

Before satan is cast unto the earth, he still has access to heaven in some sense. Then once he sees he is cast unto the earth he then has great wrath, knowing that he only has a short time. Neither of these fit Revelation 20 and his thousand year binding.

Revelation 20:1 ¶And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled

Where does it give the impression he knows he has a short time here, and that he is having great wrath at the time?

If we factored in this as well---and after that he must be loosed a little season---then tried to be objective about things--thus ignoring Premil vs Amil---this certainly sounds like, on the surface anyway, it could fit when he realizes he has but a short time, and that he then has great wrath because of it. But then that would have to mean that the thousand years fit before he is cast out of heaven. I don't see that making sense, therefore, even though it appears that maybe--and after that he must be loosed a little season---could fit this---he knows he has a short time here, and that he is having great wrath because he knows his time is short---when logically it can't. Or can it? Who knows? Maybe it can? Nor can when he is bound a thousand years fit with having great wrath at the time.

Amils don't equate the "short time" after he is cast out of heaven with the "little season" of Revelation 20:3. you have proven yet again that you don't understand Amil. The Greek word translated as "short" in Revelation 12:10 is "oligos" which is not a word that can only refer to a literally small number or amount, but can refer to a limited or relatively small amount of something. In this case, it refers to the limited time that Satan had left after being cast out of heaven long ago. In Revelation 20:3, the Greek word "mikros" is translated as "little" and that word only ever refers to a literally small number of amount of something.

To be fair here. This is just as problematic for Premil. Premil has his short time, which involves great wrath, leading to his binding in the pit rather than to his demise in the LOF. What about when he is loosed from the pit? he no longer has great wrath even though he knows the very next thing in store for him is his demise in the LOF? Between being bound in the pit and his demise in the LOF, I would think he would have more of a reason to have great wrath if he knows that he has but a short time until his demise in the LOF rather than he knows he has but a short time until he is bound in the pit.

All these views have their share of problems, including Amil, Premil, and what you are proposing.

These views don't have a problem with what Amils actually believe, they only have a problem with your straw man version of Amil.

 

[grafted branch]

Except, IMO, that is not the manner in which these things are being applied in Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 20. A little season is meaning it's duration once the little season begins. In the meantime this little season in both accounts are irrelevant since they only matter once they begin. For example, the millennium. Regardless where the millennium logically fits, this little season after it is not relevant during it. Nothing during the millennium is going to be involving events pertaining to the little season that follows, during the millennium.

What are some of the things that the little season will be involving?

1) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog

2) to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

3) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

None of these things, in any sense, can be taking place during the millennium if it is not until after the millennium that these things then take place. Why would anyone feel the need to argue with that logic?

Non Premils have this taking place throughout their proposed millennium---deceive the nations--the fact non Premils can not deny that nations are still being deceived as we speak, and some nations have continued to be deceived for going on 2000 years now, the same 2000 years most Amils have satan bound in the pit during.

Not to mention. The non Premil millennium, that view has battles happening all throughout it, both spiritual battles and literal battles. An example of a literal battle would be when a believer is being persecuted by someone, and in some cases, leading to their martyrdom. Except 2) above indicates that anything pertaining to battles does not happen again until satan is released first. And that the non Premil version of the millennium is riddled with battles throughout, both spiritually and literally.

The non Premil version of the millennium doesn't even agree with this in Isaiah 2:4, where this in verse 4 is being applied to their proposed millennium---and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Except Jesus said this in Matthew 24:6-7, that it will be like this on the earth while he is away--And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars--For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

That really sounds like Isaiah 2:4, doesn't it? Not.

In Isaiah 2:4--nation shall not lift up sword against nation--obviously involves numerous nations doing these things. Therefore, which nations should we assume are doing these things if we apply this to the here and now in any sense? It still requires one nation not lifting up sword against another nation. Then another nation doing likewise, where that nation is not lifting up sword against another nation, so on and so on.

Ok, I’m not arguing one way or the other on how we should be able to determine the length of a little season. But if a little season can be thousands of years long (which I disagree with), then how can Premils determine if we are currently in Satan’s little season or not?

We all claim the Holy Spirit is giving us the truth but obviously not all end time views can be correct.

So if a little season can be 1,000+ years long wouldn’t it be possible that the millennium is already over and we are in Satan’s little season right now, and many people are deceived by not recognizing Jesus has already physically came to earth and physically reigned for 1,000 literal years? I would think a Premil view of Satan being loosed would include his ability to deceived people into rewriting history so they wouldn’t recognize where in the Biblical timeline they are.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ok, I’m not arguing one way or the other on how we should be able to determine the length of a little season. But if a little season can be thousands of years long (which I disagree with), then how can Premils determine if we are currently in Satan’s little season or not?

We all claim the Holy Spirit is giving us the truth but obviously not all end time views can be correct.

So if a little season can be 1,000+ years long wouldn’t it be possible that the millennium is already over and we are in Satan’s little season right now, and many people are deceived by not recognizing Jesus has already physically came to earth and physically reigned for 1,000 literal years? I would think a Premil view of Satan being loosed would include his ability to deceived people into rewriting history so they wouldn’t recognize where in the Biblical timeline they are.

I think there's only one person here who is saying that the little season of Revelation 6:11 has lasted a long time (for almost 2,000 years so far), but I don't recall anyone here trying to claim that the little season of Revelation 20:3 "can be thousands of years long".

 

[grafted branch]

I think there's only one person here who is saying that the little season of Revelation 6:11 has lasted a long time (for almost 2,000 years so far), but I don't recall anyone here trying to claim that the little season of Revelation 20:3 "can be thousands of years long".

@Zao is life said this in post #26 …

“When the time comes we will know how long Revelation 20:3's little while will be. The text does not tell us.”



I took that statement to mean the little season in Revelation 20:3 could be thousands of years long if one finds themselves believing the millennium had already happened over a thousand years ago. I could be wrong about his view.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Which would have to logically mean that his binding is during when he still has access to heaven before he is cast out into the earth.

Yes, that is exactly what happened. Satan still had access to heaven to accuse the brethren, even while his deception of the nations was being bound simultaneously during that literal millennium which ended in AD 33. Those are two different activities for Satan - accusing the brethren, and deceiving the nations. The terms of the millennium only state that Satan's deception of the nations was restricted during that time.

The "bottomless pit" or the "abyss" in which Satan's deception of the nations was restricted was not an actual location with physical coordinates. Neither was that a physical chain, nor a physical seal. The "abyss" represents a condition or state of being, or rather, a non-functioning condition.

Christ's body was also in the "abyss" for three days and nights in a non-functioning condition of physical death in the sepulchre. We are told this in Romans 10:7: "... Who shall descend into the deep (the abysson)? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)" Satan's deception of the nations was not functioning during those literal thousand years until he was released in AD 33 when the "First resurrection" occurred. This doesn't mean Satan could not move about during the millennium. It doesn't even mean that Satan's attempts to deceive had stopped (as happened with Christ in the wilderness). The millennium terms state only that Satan would not succeed in deceiving the nations during that time.

All these views have their share of problems, including Amil, Premil, and what you are proposing.

Scripture is quite clear that the millennium ends with the "First resurrection" in Rev. 20:5. This "First resurrection" was composed of "Christ the FIRST-fruits" and the Matthew 27:52-53 saints that were raised from the dead on the same day - all of them called "blessed and holy" who composed that resurrection event. Those Matt. 27:52-53 saints were the same as the "remnant of the dead" who came to life again (in AD 33) when the thousand years were finished (as in Rev. 20:5). This resurrection of the comparatively small "remnant" of Matt. 27:52-53 saints (in AD 33) John labeled as being "the First resurrection". When the millennium of Satan's bound deception had "expired" that day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Zao is life said this in post #26 …

“When the time comes we will know how long Revelation 20:3's little while will be. The text does not tell us.”



I took that statement to mean the little season in Revelation 20:3 could be thousands of years long if one finds themselves believing the millennium had already happened over a thousand years ago. I could be wrong about his view.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe that the little season of Revelation 20:3 could be thousands of years long. What would that mean about the thousand years then? That it's actually a million years long or something? No, I can't see anyone actually trying to claim that the little season could be thousands of years long.

 

[David in NJ]

That's not quite what I wrote. I wrote that the "little season" or "short time" of Satan's release after the millennium ended had already begun some time before John was writing Revelation in AD 60. That "little season" did not begin in AD 60. The "little season" began back in AD 33 with Christ's resurrection-day ascension to the Father (as in John 20:17 when Jesus told Mary He was ascending to the Father at that point). That was when Satan the "accuser of the brethren" was cast out of heaven down to earth with his devils (after he lost the war in Rev. 12 to Michael and his angels), to once again deceive the nations in "great wrath". Satan knew back in AD 33 that his "short time" or "little season" of deceiving the nations wouldn't last very long after the end of the millennium in AD 33. It would last less than 40 years at that point. That is why Satan was so furiously desperate at the time. The clock was ticking down.

This is why we have a lot of warnings against deception in the NT writings. "Be not deceived...", etc.. Satan was then walking about like a roaring lion, seeking those he could devour, taking individuals captive at his will, etc. Lots of deception by the Satanic realm going on in that first century. But to counter this, there was also the gift of the Holy Spirit poured out on all flesh, to stand against this ramped-up level of Satan's deception of the nations.


The millennium of Satan's deception being bound which ended in AD 33 had first begun all the way back in 968/967 BC, with the foundation stone of Solomon's temple being laid down. The millennium was a literal thousand years of a God-approved physical temple worship system which helped bind Satan's deception of the nations, along with the ministry of the OT prophets operating during this time. This millennium with the physical temple foundation stone was only a precursor which pointed forward to the "more glorious" spiritual temple not made with hands, of which Christ became "the chief cornerstone" which the builders had rejected, and with believers as "living stones" being built upon Christ the True foundation stone.


The second person of the Trinity has ALWAYS reigned and will ALWAYS reign from eternity past into eternity future. There are new aspects of that perpetual reign that have been revealed over time (such as His elevation to become our crowned Great High Priest in heaven at His resurrection-day ascension), but that doesn't mean His reign over all creation began on that day. Psalms 45:6-7 and Hebrews 1:8 tells us "But unto the Son he says: Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". We are also told in Psalms 145:13 that "Thy kingdom is a kingdom of all ages, and thy dominion is in all generations".

Look at it in geometry terms: Christ's perpetual reign could be compared to a line stretching in both directions to eternity. Satan's millennial binding for a literal thousand years was only an "A" to "B" segment portion of that perpetual line of Christ's eternal reign. Like this...

<----Christ's reign-----•A-----(Satan's deception of the nations bound for 1,000 years)-------B•----Christ's reign-------->

Point "A" began the millennium in 968/967 BC, and point "B" ended the millennium in AD 33 with Christ and the "First resurrection".
Satan's "little season" of renewed deception of the nations began at point "B" in AD 33, and lasted less than 40 years.

If the little season began in AD 33, when did it end?

 

[grafted branch]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe that the little season of Revelation 20:3 could be thousands of years long. What would that mean about the thousand years then? That it's actually a million years long or something? No, I can't see anyone actually trying to claim that the little season could be thousands of years long.

I don’t know, in post #21 he said this …

“Hebrews 10:37:

For yet a little [mikros] while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

Hebrews 10:37 is very telling because it's not a short period of time being spoken about, though it's using the same word.”



He definitely thinks the word mikros can be a long time, thousands of years long. I guess we will have to wait and see if he responds to clarify his view for us.

 

[Davidpt]

Ok, I’m not arguing one way or the other on how we should be able to determine the length of a little season. But if a little season can be thousands of years long (which I disagree with), then how can Premils determine if we are currently in Satan’s little season or not?

We all claim the Holy Spirit is giving us the truth but obviously not all end time views can be correct.

So if a little season can be 1,000+ years long wouldn’t it be possible that the millennium is already over and we are in Satan’s little season right now, and many people are deceived by not recognizing Jesus has already physically came to earth and physically reigned for 1,000 literal years? I would think a Premil view of Satan being loosed would include his ability to deceived people into rewriting history so they wouldn’t recognize where in the Biblical timeline they are.

Premils, unlike Amils, in this case, try and determine some of these things based on what Revelation 20:4 records, then comparing that with what Revelation 13 records, for instance.

One thing Revelation 20:4 records is this---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

Then compare that with what Revelation 13 records. It then becomes plainly obvious, that these meant in verse 4 are martyred during the 42 moth reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13. At this point, no matter how you look at, this indicates that the 42 month reign of the beast precedes satan't liitle season recorded in Revelation 20.

Then by comparing Revelation 6:11 and that little season to that of the 42 month reign of the beast, it is equally obvious that the little season meant in Revelation 16:11 is involving the 42 month reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13, thus explaining those meant in Revelation 20:4. And here is where Amil falls apart. It is not reasonable that the 42 month reign of the beast can be meaning while the beast is in the pit. And that Amil, or at least the version I'm most familiar with, has the beast and satan in the pit at the same time. And when satan emerges so does the beast. Except Revelation 20:4 in light of Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 13 already proves that the beast has already ascended out of the pit before satan does, since something has to explain this in Revelation 20:4----which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

 

[David in NJ]

Premils, unlike Amils, in this case, try and determine some of these things based on what Revelation 20:4 records, then comparing that with what Revelation 13 records, for instance.

One thing Revelation 20:4 records is this---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

Then compare that with what Revelation 13 records. It then becomes plainly obvious, that these meant in verse 4 are martyred during the 42 moth reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13. At this point, no matter how you look at, this indicates that the 42 month reign of the beast precedes satan't liitle season recorded in Revelation 20.

Then by comparing Revelation 6:11 and that little season to that of the 42 month reign of the beast, it is equally obvious that the little season meant in Revelation 16:11 is involving the 42 month reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13, thus explaining those meant in Revelation 20:4. And here is where Amil falls apart. It is not reasonable that the 42 month reign of the beast can be meaning while the beast is in the pit. And that Amil, or at least the version I'm most familiar with, has the beast and satan in the pit at the same time. And when satan emerges so does the beast. Except Revelation 20:4 in light of Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 13 already proves that the beast has already ascended out of the pit before satan does, since something has to explain this in Revelation 20:4----which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

Rev 6:9-11

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Look closer and continue to SEE just as you are doing​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t know, in post #21 he said this …

“Hebrews 10:37:

For yet a little [mikros] while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

Hebrews 10:37 is very telling because it's not a short period of time being spoken about, though it's using the same word.”



He definitely thinks the word mikros can be a long time, thousands of years long. I guess we will have to wait and see if he responds to clarify his view for us.

He is misinterpreting Hebrews 10:37, but I'm not sure if he was using his understanding of that verse to say that the little season of Revelation 20:3 refers to a long time or not. I still doubt it. Maybe he was applying that to Revelation 6:11 instead since he doesn't see that as being the same little season? I don't know. I can't tell from post 21, so, like you said, we'll see if he clarifies this or not. It's not important enough for me to ask him to do so.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Premils, unlike Amils, in this case, try and determine some of these things based on what Revelation 20:4 records, then comparing that with what Revelation 13 records, for instance.

One thing Revelation 20:4 records is this---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

Then compare that with what Revelation 13 records. It then becomes plainly obvious, that these meant in verse 4 are martyred during the 42 moth reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13.

Amils don't say otherwise. Are you just completely incapable of doing anything but misrepresenting what Amils believe? We don't differ about those passages being related, we differ in our understanding of what time period the 42 months represents. I'm not talking for all Amils here, but I know some of us Amils see the time periods referenced in Revelation as all being symbolic, including the 42 months. You have never explained why you have the beast being loosed from the bottomless pit before the 42 months in Revelation 13 despite Revelation 11:7 showing the beast as coming out of the bottomless pit at the end of the 42 months/1260 days instead.

You just completely ignore things like that because you just believe whatever you want to believe. You also ignore that the beast "was" even before John wrote the book (Rev 17:8) and you ignore that one of its heads "is" at the time he wrote the book (Rev 17:10), showing that the beast being in the bottomless pit did not equate to the beast being completely inactive.

At this point, no matter how you look at, this indicates that the 42 month reign of the beast precedes satan't liitle season recorded in Revelation 20.

I agree with that. The 42 months/1260 days equates to the time during which the church, represented as "the two witnesses" in Revelation 11, preach the gospel throughout the world without anyone being able to silence them. During Satan's little season, he will be loosed and allowed to silence the word of God and the gospel like he was allowed to do in Old Testament times.

Then by comparing Revelation 6:11 and that little season to that of the 42 month reign of the beast, it is equally obvious that the little season meant in Revelation 16:11 is involving the 42 month reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13, thus explaining those meant in Revelation 20:4.

Oh, so now you are trying to claim that you know how long a "little season" lasts? Why is it described as a "little season" then if the length of it is known? Also, where do you see the beast mentioned in Revelation 6:11?

And here is where Amil falls apart.

LOL. Every time you try to claim this you are either 100% wrong or you proceed to misrepresent Amil, so no one can take comments like this from you seriously.

It is not reasonable that the 42 month reign of the beast can be meaning while the beast is in the pit.

Why is that? Just because you falsely assume that the beast being in the pit means the beast is completely incapacitated just like you understanding Satan's binding in the pit? How do you think that your speculation and assumptions can refute Amil?

And that Amil, or at least the version I'm most familiar with,

You're not familiar with any version of Amil. You don't understand Amil at all, as you've proven a thousand times (but, not literally a thousand times...probably more like 2 thousand times).

has the beast and satan in the pit at the same time. And when satan emerges so does the beast

Why would the beast and the dragon, Satan, not be in the pit at the same time? Do you not understand that they work together? The beast gets its power from the dragon (Revelation 13:4), so it only follows that if the beast is in the pit, then so is the dragon.

Except Revelation 20:4 in light of Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 13 already proves that the beast has already ascended out of the pit before satan does, since something has to explain this in Revelation 20:4----which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

No, it proves no such thing. This is all based on your assumptions about the beast, yet you cannot even tell us what you think the beast represents. Why should anyone take you seriously when you can't even tell us what the beast represents? You know nothing about the beast. If you disagree, then tell us what the beast represents. I've asked you to do this before several times and you've never done it. Without even know what the beast is, you are not qualified to speak about anything related to the beast.

 

[3 Resurrections]

If the little season began in AD 33, when did it end?

Satan and all his devils and the unclean spirits were imprisoned within the walls of the besieged city of Jerusalem in AD 66. Read Isaiah 24:21-23 and Revelation 18:2, which respectively speak of the punishment and imprisonment of the wicked "host of high ones" until they were eliminated, and how Jerusalem became "the habitation of devils" and a "prison (phylake) for every unclean spirit". Christ had predicted this fate for the entire number of unclean spirits who would return in seven-fold numbers more wicked than before to plague that wicked generation in its "last state" (Matt. 12:43-45).

By the time that Jerusalem fell in AD 70 and died its "second death" by flames consuming the city (for a second time since the Babylonian invasion), and turning it into a literal "lake of fire", Satan was slain by God (Isaiah 27:1) and every one of those unclean spirits "passed out of the land", as Zechariah 13:2 had predicted. Both Isaiah and Ezekiel speak of the death of Satan (who would be turned into ashes on the earth), and when and how God would accomplish this. Satan and his devils all shared the same fate in the same location - Old Jerusalem's "Lake of Fire" conditions at the close of the siege. That particular location had been "prepared" for them all. It was the approaching doom that all the unclean spirits feared when Christ was casting them out during His earthly ministry. "Art thou come to torment us before the time?" they asked. They knew what was coming, and Satan did too, which is why he was so enraged at the beginning of his "little season" of release in AD 33. He didn't have very long to wreak havoc on humanity before he was to be slain in Jerusalem by the close of AD 70.