Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[WPM]

In the General Assembly we read of TWO groups - the Body of Christ and the Old Testament Saints.

`...the General Assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 23)

This is classic Dispie dividing up of the people of God. I have news for you: God has only one redeemed people from the beginning. They are God's elect irrespective of which covenant they were born under. That statement was actually referring to the one people.

Jesus said prior to the cross, speaking to His Jewish converts, in John 10:14-16, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

The continuation of the believing Israeli flock, and its morphing into the New Testament congregation, confirmed the expansion of faithful Israel in the new covenant period. It also explains the Israeli identity of the new covenant people of God and demonstrates the sense of continuity that existed between both covenant eras. Gentiles were now to be corralled into faithful Israel in extraordinary numbers. They trusted in Israel’s Messiah, they joined the old covenant flock, and became the New Testament people of God. This was a radical overhaul for even the most open-minded of Christ’s disciples. We saw that in their parochial response to Christ’s kingdom teaching in Acts 1:6 and with their struggle in the book of Acts to come to terms with accommodating Gentiles joining the congregation (ekklesia) on an equal basis to that of Jews.

 

[Marilyn C]

That relates to thr cross. True remnant Israel embraced their Messiah, the rest were blinded. They were pf their father the devil.

Yes, it will only be because of the Lord`s sacrifice. The Lord will turn His people Israel to Him again.

 

[Marilyn C]

This is classic Dispie dividing up of the people of God. I have news for you: God has only one redeemed people from the beginning. They are God's elect irrespective of which covenant they were born under. That statement was actually referring to the one people.

Jesus said prior to the cross, speaking to His Jewish converts, in John 10:14-16, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

The continuation of the believing Israeli flock, and its morphing into the New Testament congregation, confirmed the expansion of faithful Israel in the new covenant period. It also explains the Israeli identify of the new covenant people of God and demonstrates the sense of continuity that existed between both covenant eras. Gentiles were now to be corralled into faithful Israel in extraordinary numbers. They trusted in Israel’s Messiah, they joined the old covenant flock, and became the New Testament people of God. This was a radical overhaul for even the most open-minded of Christ’s disciples. We saw that in their parochial response to Christ’s kingdom teaching in Acts 1:6 and with their struggle in the book of Acts to come to terms with accommodating Gentiles joining the congregation (ekklesia) on an equal basis to that of Jews.

One fold, is all under the Lord`s rulership. It does not mean all are in one place.

So where do you see we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?

 

[WPM]

One fold, is all under the Lord`s rulership. It does not mean all are in one place.

So where do you see we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?

The body of Christ relate to all who are saved from Adam. 1 Corinthians15:22 reveals a repeated NT truth: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Basically, men either have one birth or two, just a natural birth, or both a natural and a spiritual birth. You must invent a 3rd group to support your Dispensationalism.

We were legally represented "in Christ" in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented "in Adam" when he fell, equally we were legally represented "in Christ" when He defeated sin and death (our 2 great enemies). We were justified by the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured. The Lord’s resurrection spelt defeat for all unrighteousness. Every enemy of God was defeated in the glorious resurrection from the dead.

There is no other salvation.

 

[rvmb]

One fold, is all under the Lord`s rulership. It does not mean all are in one place.

So where do you see we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?

""So where do you see we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?""
****
1st. Great to see you using the Body of Christ term that was only written by Paul :)

2nd. Paul teaches that the body of Christ will be in Heavenly places

 

[jeffweeder]

The body of Christ are all who are saved from Adam. 1 Corinthians15:22 reveals a repeated NT truth: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Basically, men either have one birth or two, just a natural birth, or both a natural and a spiritual birth. You must invent a 3rd group to support your Dispensationalism.

We were legally represented "in Christ" in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented "in Adam" when He fell, we were justified in the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured. The Lord’s resurrection spelt defeat for all unrighteousness. Every enemy of God was defeated in the glorious resurrection from the dead.

There is no other salvation.

Great wonderful post. I teared up.

 

[Marilyn C]

The body of Christ relate to all who are saved from Adam. 1 Corinthians15:22 reveals a repeated NT truth: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Basically, men either have one birth or two, just a natural birth, or both a natural and a spiritual birth. You must invent a 3rd group to support your Dispensationalism.

We were legally represented "in Christ" in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented "in Adam" when he fell, equally we were legally represented "in Christ" when He rose. We were justified by the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured. The Lord’s resurrection spelt defeat for all unrighteousness. Every enemy of God was defeated in the glorious resurrection from the dead.

There is no other salvation.

Agree there is no other salvation. So where do you believe we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?

 

[WPM]

Agree there is no other salvation. So where do you believe we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?

On the new earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

""So where do you see we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?""
****
1st. Great to see you using the Body of Christ term that was only written by Paul :)
View attachment 74983
2nd. Paul teaches that the body of Christ will be in Heavenly places

View attachment 74985

I like that. However can you be more specific? Are we in the third heaven, or the Universal realm or in the atmospheric heavens above the earth?

 

[Marilyn C]

On the new earth.

Thank you. And yes there are people on the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24) - the nations. Are you a part of them?

I wonder what rvmb is going to say.

 

[WPM]

Thank you. And yes there are people on the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24) - the nations. Are you a part of them?

I wonder what rvmb is going to say.

All the redeemed are there. There is no division amongst the people of God.

 

[Marilyn C]

All the redeemed are there. There is no division amongst the people of God.

Where?

 

[rvmb]

I like that. However can you be more specific? Are we in the third heaven, or the Universal realm or in the atmospheric heavens above the earth?

Hi Marilyn, I can't answer that with any great confidence but I suspect that the "heavenly" places that Paul refers to for the 'body of Christ' will be in a realm outside of the 3 dimensions we currently consciously experience, maybe/hopefully something similar to where we go when we dream :). We are told we will 1 Cor 6:2-3 judge the angels, so that would probably also occur in those "heavenly places" .

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn, I can't answer that with any great confidence but I suspect that the "heavenly" places that Paul refers to for the 'body of Christ' will be in a realm outside of the 3 dimensions we currently consciously experience, maybe/hopefully something similar to where we go when we dream :). We are told we will 1 Cor 6:2-3 judge the angels, so that would probably also occur in those "heavenly places" .

I do like that answer rvmb. Quite thoughtful.

I`m off for the night now. See you all in the morning.

 

[jeffweeder]

Thank you. And yes there are people on the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24) - the nations. Are you a part of them?

Only righteousness dwells on the NHNE.
The congregation on the NHNE is made up of the sheep of all tribes, nations, tongues.

14 I am the Good Shepherd, and I know [without any doubt those who are] My own and My own know Me [and have a deep, personal relationship with Me]— 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.

16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.


Only the sheep will inherit what was prepared from the foundation of the world and have access to the tree of life.
No possible chance of anyone that the lord does intimately know will enter this garden of Eden anew.


Revelation 7:9

​

After these things I looked, and this is what I saw: a vast multitude which no one could count, [gathered] from every nation and from all the tribes and peoples and languages [of the earth], standing before the throne and before the Lamb (Christ), dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands;




13 Then one of the elders responded, saying to me, “These who are dressed in the long white robes—who are they, and from where did they come?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know [the answer].” And he said to me, “These are the people who come out of the great tribulation (persecution), and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb [because of His atoning sacrifice].

15 For this reason, they are [standing] before the throne of God; and they serve Him [in worship] day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them and shelter and protect them [with His presence]. 16 They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any [scorching] heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will be their Shepherd, and He will guide them to springs of the waters of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes [giving them eternal comfort].”

That is the NHNE.

 

[rwb]

You have not addressed the TWO groups I pointed out in Hebrews 12. The OT ` just men` are not written in the church, the Body of Christ but written as a separate group.

You're leaving out part of the verse. It doesn't simply say "just men" is says "spirits" of just men. IOW not physically men, rather the "spirits" of men declared by God to be justified (made perfect) through Him. Children of God, the body of Christ (Church) in which all believers are.

Hebrews 12:23 (KJV) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And with Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant through His blood that speaks better things than Abel. Abel signified physical things, things that shall pass away, but Christ being better signifies spiritual fulfillment of things that are eternal and can never pass away.

Hebrews 12:24 (KJV) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

The general assembly and Church of the firstborn are not separated according to flesh! It is eternal in heaven where the spirits of all who are justified through faith are the spiritual body with Christ in heaven.

 

[rwb]

But you are telling me that God is finished with Israel except for individuals coming into the Body of Christ. That shows that you don`t believe God was going to fulfill His purposes for them as promised.

What purposes do you believe that God has for Israel of the flesh (ethnic Jews) that He does not have for Gentiles also? What eternal/everlasting promises are explicitly for Israel of flesh only?

The only promises to the ethnic nation of Israel that was exclusively and physically for the twelve tribes of Israel of the flesh was the land of Canaan (promised land). Even this promise would only be forever IF they remained faithful to God's Covenant. Every promise God made to them exclusively has been physically fulfilled just as God promised them.

Joshua 23:14-16 (KJV) And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.

 

[rwb]

Agree there is no other salvation. So where do you believe we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?

Spiritually, that is through our spirit, believers are eternally with Christ from the moment we have been born again and entered the spiritual Kingdom of God now being built as the gospel is proclaimed. We are presently spiritually with Him through His Spirit in us. In this life before physical death we have lived and reigned with Christ (in time, symbolized a thousand years) through His Spirit in us. When the physical body of believers dies, our spirit possessing eternal life returns to God a spiritual body (living soul) and our flesh shall return to dust. Then after time for this earth expires our spirit shall return with Christ to change our mortal body to immortal and incorruptible to live with Christ forever on the New Earth where these former things have passed away and all shall be new again.

John 3:15 (KJV) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (KJV) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 21:4-5 (KJV) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[WPM]

Where?

New earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, it will only be because of the Lord`s sacrifice. The Lord will turn His people Israel to Him again.

You are not allowing the Bible to tell you who the Lord's people are.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.