Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

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Scott Downey

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You are not allowing the Bible to tell you who the Lord's people are.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
And


5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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One fold, is all under the Lord`s rulership. It does not mean all are in one place.

So where do you see we, the Body of Christ will be in eternity?
Why wouldn't all be in one place? Why do you try to create division amongst God's people when scripture never does that? We are all one in Christ with no division of Jews and Gentiles or any other groups.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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And


5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Amen. And there are many other passages like those to support that God's people from all-time and all nations are all one body together without the division that dispensationalists believe in.
 

Scott Downey

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Amen. And there are many other passages like those to support that God's people from all-time and all nations are all one body together without the division that dispensationalists believe in.

Brought Near by His Blood​

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Christ Our Peace​

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Christ Our Cornerstone​

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

Marilyn C

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You're leaving out part of the verse. It doesn't simply say "just men" is says "spirits" of just men. IOW not physically men, rather the "spirits" of men declared by God to be justified (made perfect) through Him. Children of God, the body of Christ (Church) in which all believers are.

Hebrews 12:23 (KJV) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And with Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant through His blood that speaks better things than Abel. Abel signified physical things, things that shall pass away, but Christ being better signifies spiritual fulfillment of things that are eternal and can never pass away.

Hebrews 12:24 (KJV) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

The general assembly and Church of the firstborn are not separated according to flesh! It is eternal in heaven where the spirits of all who are justified through faith are the spiritual body with Christ in heaven.
`the General Assembly-

and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven,

to God the judge of all,

to the spirits of just men made perfect...` (Heb. 12: 23)


Clearly TWO groups.
 

Marilyn C

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Only righteousness dwells on the NHNE.
The congregation on the NHNE is made up of the sheep of all tribes, nations, tongues.

14 I am the Good Shepherd, and I know [without any doubt those who are] My own and My own know Me [and have a deep, personal relationship with Me]— 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.

16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.


Only the sheep will inherit what was prepared from the foundation of the world and have access to the tree of life.
No possible chance of anyone that the lord does intimately know will enter this garden of Eden anew.


Revelation 7:9

After these things I looked, and this is what I saw: a vast multitude which no one could count, [gathered] from every nation and from all the tribes and peoples and languages [of the earth], standing before the throne and before the Lamb (Christ), dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands;




13 Then one of the elders responded, saying to me, “These who are dressed in the long white robes—who are they, and from where did they come?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know [the answer].” And he said to me, “These are the people who come out of the great tribulation (persecution), and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb [because of His atoning sacrifice].

15 For this reason, they are [standing] before the throne of God; and they serve Him [in worship] day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them and shelter and protect them [with His presence]. 16 They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any [scorching] heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will be their Shepherd, and He will guide them to springs of the waters of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes [giving them eternal comfort].”

That is the NHNE.
And where is that please?
 

Marilyn C

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What purposes do you believe that God has for Israel of the flesh (ethnic Jews) that He does not have for Gentiles also? What eternal/everlasting promises are explicitly for Israel of flesh only?

The only promises to the ethnic nation of Israel that was exclusively and physically for the twelve tribes of Israel of the flesh was the land of Canaan (promised land). Even this promise would only be forever IF they remained faithful to God's Covenant. Every promise God made to them exclusively has been physically fulfilled just as God promised them.

Joshua 23:14-16 (KJV) And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.
The Prophet Ezekiel (& others) reveal that Israel will rule over the nations of the earth. (Ez. 17: 22 & 23)
 

Marilyn C

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Spiritually, that is through our spirit, believers are eternally with Christ from the moment we have been born again and entered the spiritual Kingdom of God now being built as the gospel is proclaimed. We are presently spiritually with Him through His Spirit in us. In this life before physical death we have lived and reigned with Christ (in time, symbolized a thousand years) through His Spirit in us. When the physical body of believers dies, our spirit possessing eternal life returns to God a spiritual body (living soul) and our flesh shall return to dust. Then after time for this earth expires our spirit shall return with Christ to change our mortal body to immortal and incorruptible to live with Christ forever on the New Earth where these former things have passed away and all shall be new again.

John 3:15 (KJV) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (KJV) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV)
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 21:4-5 (KJV) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
And where does it say that the Body of Christ will be in the New Jerusalem?
 

Marilyn C

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You are not allowing the Bible to tell you who the Lord's people are.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
And let us not forget -

`For Jacob`s sake; and Israel my elect.` (Isa. 45: 4)
 

Marilyn C

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Why wouldn't all be in one place? Why do you try to create division amongst God's people when scripture never does that? We are all one in Christ with no division of Jews and Gentiles or any other groups.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Yes, in the Body of Christ there is no Jew or Gentile distinction. However, God has not cast-off Israel or the nations which He has made.
 

WPM

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`the General Assembly-

and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven,

to God the judge of all,

to the spirits of just men made perfect...` (Heb. 12: 23)


Clearly TWO groups.
No. Only in your mind. Not in reality. There is no apartheid in heaven. That is Dispensensationalism.
 
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WPM

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And scriptures for the Body of Christ on the New earth please?
Contrary to your mistaken efforts, there is only one people of God.

The believer hence looks forward to the new heavens and a new earth. This all-consummating day when Christ appears sees the ushering in of the glorious eternal rest of the believer, a glorious hope that Peter delineates in his conclusion, saying, “Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13).
 
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Marilyn C

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Contrary to your mistaken efforts, there is only one people of God.

The believer hence looks forward to the new heavens and a new earth. This all-consummating day when Christ appears sees the ushering in of the glorious eternal rest of the believer, a glorious hope that Peter delineates in his conclusion, saying, “Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13).
So scriptures for the Body of Christ on the New earth please?
 

Archie

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I am so grateful to Almighty God that my acceptance into His eternal kingdom does not depend upon my own particular eschatological leanings or interpretations. But rather Christ in me, the hope of glory.

That being said, the glorious return of the Lord Jesus Christ has always been imminent. Feel free to disagree, it won't hurt my feelings one iota.

 

WPM

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So scriptures for the Body of Christ on the New earth please?
There is one saved, redeemed, true Israel, Church, people of God. Your Dispie teaching has caused you to try and divide God's people like the Mormons. We are all together. Peter tells us. I just showed you. He was talking to Christians (the body of Christ). Hello!
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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And let us not forget -

`For Jacob`s sake; and Israel my elect.` (Isa. 45: 4)
Are you trying to play scripture tag? Do you accept what is written in Galatians 3:26 or not? Read Romans 11. Does Paul say that literally all Israelites are God's elect? No. He said only the remnant that were saved by grace were elect. You can't include unbelievers among God's people.
 

WPM

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So scriptures for the Body of Christ on the New earth please?
The old saints were looking forward to the life, death and resurrection of Christ. We look back. We are all in Christ by faith. We are one people, one body and one spiritual temple. Christ does not believe in spiritual apartheid amongst His eternal family. There is no division or schism. We are all one!

Ephesians 2:10-19 declares, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth (politeia or citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens (sumpolites) with the saints, and of the household of God. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”

In the light of the evidence before us, and due to the noise coming from the Dispensational camp, the important question that must be asked in this hour is: are there two distinct and unique spiritual peoples of God on planet earth today, or does God just have one spiritual people? Is natural Israel God’s chosen earthly people and is the New Testament Church His heavenly people, as per Dispensational theology, or is God’s people a unitary transnational spiritual body found throughout all generations?

When you don’t have a theological agenda and you don’t feel compelled to justify a doctrinal position then you are free to let the Bible speaks for itself. This is the place of spiritual liberty. You are qualified to hear from God.

One thing that is abundantly clear when you let the sacred text say what it says is that there is a oneness to the people of God throughout time. There are no divisions or subsets in the body of Christ. They are one harmonious group. Even though the people of God are found under two different covenants, even though they come from varying racial backgrounds and different social classes, they are inextricably connected to each other through their faith in the Messiah Christ.

The New Testament repeatedly emphasizes the oneness of God’s people. Those who disagree have to fight with numerous explicit Scripture. This is not a good place to be.

If there is only one Gospel, pointing to one Savior, that produces one salvation, would it not make sense that there is one people of God? The Bible only recognizes one elect spiritual people throughout time who belong to Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Old Testament and also equally the God of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament. The Old and New Testament saints are joined together through Israel’s Messiah and Redeemer Jesus Christ. In Him, and through faith, they become Abraham's spiritual seed, citizens of true believing Israel, and heirs according to the promise.

We have seen as we have looked at both the origin and development of Israel and that of the ekklesia that these are equivalent designations that represent the exact same people that traverse both covenants. Whilst we saw there was/is an outward visible manifestation of each, true Israel and the true ekklesia are the same ongoing remnant within the overall whole which contains all those who personally belong to God. They are His faithful elect. This reality totally strips Dispensationalism of its core hypothesis that Israel and the ekklesia are two completely separate peoples who are divided in identity, age, calling and destiny. In both testaments, the people of God included both Jews and Gentiles.

Natural Israelites and natural Gentiles enter into an eternal covenant relationship with Yahweh God through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. This text tells us that Christ did “reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross” (2:16). It presents “the blood of Christ” (2:13) as the divine work that brings ancient enemies together spiritually as one. The Savior is the crucial factor in unifying God’s people throughout all time. The Old Testament saints looked forward by faith to the promised Redeemer, whereas the New Testament Church now looks back. The unity and continuity are undoubted.

There are many unique metaphors used in the New Testament that you cannot find in the Old Testament. That does not negate the fact that God's people throughout time are one. They are a unitary whole. You cannot divide them in two. You cannot decapitate them.Let us be clear, we are dealing with the greater and fuller revelation in the New Testament. It puts meat on the bones to the old covenant disclosure. What is vague or absurd in the Old Testament is fully revealed in the New Testament. This is something that many Dispensationalists do not seem to see.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yes, in the Body of Christ there is no Jew or Gentile distinction. However, God has not cast-off Israel or the nations which He has made.
All of God's people are in the body of Christ. There is no other name under heaven by which anyone can be saved but the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12, John 14:6).

Who said God cast off Israel? Not me. I agree with what Paul said.

Romans 11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

You seem to think that God will prove that He hasn't cast away Israel by saving the entire nation one day. So, you seem to think He has cast away Israel, but only temporarily and not permanently. That completely contradicts what Paul taught. Paul proved that God never "cast away His people whom He foreknew" because of the remnant of saved believers who were elected by grace, including himself. God's people are those who have faith, whether Jew or Gentile (Galatians 3:26-29). You try to act as if salvation has anything to do with nationality, but it does not. It's all about faith. You try to include unbelieving Jews as God's people, but that contradicts scripture. You try to divide God's people into groups, but scripture never does.