Infant baptism biblical?

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theefaith

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Baptism Before learning?
The grace of baptism?
Taught the faith?

All very strange things....not Scriptural.

what is required for it to be scripture
“THIS PROMISE IS TO YOU’RE CHILDREN”
 

Ancient

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I never said anything about hate

the things I said I have you scripture for try and read it!
The point I made was replacement theology is hate it is founded in hate and the fact it is based in antisemitism. Based on the lies of the early church fathers. Try reading Romans 11 about being grafted in. Eph 2 once being aliens and strangers from the commonwealth of Israel. Both books written by Paul a "Hebrew" from the tribe of Benjamin and also referred to himself a Pharisee of Pharisees.

Shalom friend
 

Ancient

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We are Christian not jews
We don’t participate in any of the Jews practices

Christ replaced david as king Lk 1:32-33
The church replaced Israel matt 21:43
The new covenant replaced the mosaic covenant

Luke 1:32-33 says nothing about church replacing Israel. It actually is establishing and endorsing Israel. V 32 says give Him the throne of David, well this is fulfilling prophecy that a king from the house of David/who represents the tribe of Judah will always be on the throne who is our King Messiah Jesus. Who is of the line of David through Mary and Joseph. This is why they were in Bethlehem at the time of His birth because of the census called they were all required to go to their homeland/tribe to be counted Bethlehem is in the land allotted to Judah as is Jerusalem way back when they first entered and conquered Canaan and the land was split up into the 12 tribes. V 33 He will rule over the House of Jacob. Well this is just another way of saying Israel/the house of Israel. Confirming the prophecies in Ezekiel 37 where the two houses of Israel that were one then divided will be bought into one again establishing Israel again and Jesus our Messiah will rule and reign as King. Praise God

Matt 21:43 The context is a parable. A parable is a story told to make a point. Yes many rejected Him as Messiah. The kingdom can be taken from those that reject Him. This is what Paul talks about in Rom 11 about being grafted in even the natural branches that were broken off can be grafted back in to the olive tree. Olive tree represents Israel. Paul also warns Gentiles who have been grafted in not to be prideful and remember that we don't support the root the root supports us. Yes even the people involved in Judaism need to receive the redemption of Messiah these who do are the natural branches who were broken of and grafted back in through our Messiah. Trust me there are many many many Jews/Judaism accepting and receiving Jesus as the Messiah. But Matt 21:43 again is not saying the church has replaced Israel.

There are no contradictions in the word of God. Reject the false man-made doctrine of man about replacement theology, it is ugly deceptive and plain evil.

Shalom Friend
 

theefaith

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The point I made was replacement theology is hate it is founded in hate and the fact it is based in antisemitism. Based on the lies of the early church fathers. Try reading Romans 11 about being grafted in. Eph 2 once being aliens and strangers from the commonwealth of Israel. Both books written by Paul a "Hebrew" from the tribe of Benjamin and also referred to himself a Pharisee of Pharisees.

Shalom friend

the new covenant church still replaced Israel matt 21:43 taken from you given to one who will bear fruit Jn 15:1
Matt 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

replaced by the new covenant
 

theefaith

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And the church fathers were successors of the apostles having authority from Christ, they were right.

especially Saint John chrysostom And the disease of the Jews! They have nothing to do with the religion God established in Israel, no temple, no ark, no priesthood nothing, they are pagan religion of the Babylonian Talmud rabbi’s are laymen with not authority no mediator no covenant

Jews

Zechariah 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Matt 23:17 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matt 23:38 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Matt 23:39 - For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 19:37
And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.


Jews

Anti-Semite: is a term that refers to the Semite ethnic people.

Refers to the son of Noah Sem and His descendants. It’s ethnic not religious and should not be used in a religious sense!

It has nothing to do with the Jews or the Jewish religion!

Anti-Jewish religion: any opposition to the Jews or to the fulfillment of the Mosaic covenant by Christ is seen as anti-Jewish!

Any opposition to the Jews or Israel or to say the mosaic covenant is fulfilled or opposition to political Zionism is also called falsely anti-Semitic

The Jews were the children and have rejected Christ and He has rejected them! 2 Tim 2:12

The church replaced Israel as the kingdom of God on earth! Matt 21:43

Your “the Jews” or “Israel’s house is a house of desolation, the Jews have the spiritual mark of Cain for killing their brother Jesus and are scattered to nations! Matt 23:39

The Jews killed Christ, as the instrument of the Roman governor!
Matt 21:38 acts 2:36 acts 3:13-15

But the nation in the person of the high priest rejected Christ and the nation consented to His death. Jn 18:14 Mk 15:13

And has never ceased blaspheming Christ, and His church!

To defend Christ is to condemn the Jews!

As Jesus said: Matt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

The church fathers (doctors, bishops, and saints) called the Jewish infidelity a disease, and the synagogue a brothel!

Strong language I know but their blasphemy against Christ is much stronger language!

The new covenant fulfilled and replaced the Mosaic covenant! Heb 10:9

Christ replaced David as King!

The Church replaced Israel!
Matt 21:43

Matt 21

21:33 - Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, (God) which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, (Israel) and went into a far country:

21:34 - And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, (prophets) that they might receive the fruits of it.

21:35 - And the husbandmen (Jews) took his servants, (prophets) and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

21:36 - Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

21:37 - But last of all he sent unto them his son, (Jesus) saying, They will reverence my son.

21:38 - But when the husbandmen (Jews) saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

21:39 - And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
(Crucifixion of Christ)

21:40 - When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

21:41 - They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

21:42 - Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church)

21:44 - And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (The Jews)

21:45 - And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
 

theefaith

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Matthew 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

reject Jesus and he rejects them
Having the spiritual mark of Cain for killing their brother are sent to be driven on by every nation, with the destruction in 70 ad as Christ said

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:



They are in darkness

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
 

theefaith

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Luke 1:32-33 says nothing about church replacing Israel. It actually is establishing and endorsing Israel. V 32 says give Him the throne of David, well this is fulfilling prophecy that a king from the house of David/who represents the tribe of Judah will always be on the throne who is our King Messiah Jesus. Who is of the line of David through Mary and Joseph. This is why they were in Bethlehem at the time of His birth because of the census called they were all required to go to their homeland/tribe to be counted Bethlehem is in the land allotted to Judah as is Jerusalem way back when they first entered and conquered Canaan and the land was split up into the 12 tribes. V 33 He will rule over the House of Jacob. Well this is just another way of saying Israel/the house of Israel. Confirming the prophecies in Ezekiel 37 where the two houses of Israel that were one then divided will be bought into one again establishing Israel again and Jesus our Messiah will rule and reign as King. Praise God

Matt 21:43 The context is a parable. A parable is a story told to make a point. Yes many rejected Him as Messiah. The kingdom can be taken from those that reject Him. This is what Paul talks about in Rom 11 about being grafted in even the natural branches that were broken off can be grafted back in to the olive tree. Olive tree represents Israel. Paul also warns Gentiles who have been grafted in not to be prideful and remember that we don't support the root the root supports us. Yes even the people involved in Judaism need to receive the redemption of Messiah these who do are the natural branches who were broken of and grafted back in through our Messiah. Trust me there are many many many Jews/Judaism accepting and receiving Jesus as the Messiah. But Matt 21:43 again is not saying the church has replaced Israel.

There are no contradictions in the word of God. Reject the false man-made doctrine of man about replacement theology, it is ugly deceptive and plain evil.

Shalom Friend

In luke Christ replaced david as king

in matt the kingdom is taken from the nation of Israel read it, it even says they knew he was speaking of them

and given to one who will bear fruit that can only be the new covenant church Jn 15:1 abide and you (the church) will bear fruit

The church has the same authority as Israel had

Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Isa 22:21-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18
 

Ancient

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In luke Christ replaced david as king

in matt the kingdom is taken from the nation of Israel read it, it even says they knew he was speaking of them

and given to one who will bear fruit that can only be the new covenant church Jn 15:1 abide and you (the church) will bear fruit

The church has the same authority as Israel had

Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Isa 22:21-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18

You have no understanding on how covenants in the Bible work. There are many covenants God made throughout the scriptures. One never replaced the other ever. Noah, Moses, Israel, David they all build on top of each other. We still experience the covenant of Noah today. If you look up in the sky you may see a rainbow every now and then. Did the Mosaic Covenant replace the Noah covenant of course not. The new covenant is more accurately rendered the renewed covenant if you bother to study the words in the original languages and not rely just on the sloppy English translation.
Jesus was an Israelite, A Jew, so you are railing against Him if you are railing against the Jews.

Jesus is the word of God. From Gen - Rev which means all those covenants are Him. So you are saying that He abolished Himself, that He replaced Himself with manmade foolish doctrines of the early church fathers. LOL. He is the commandments, He spoke the commandments, He gave the commandments. John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. No NT when this was spoken

In Matt 4:4 Jesus directly quoting Deut 8:3 Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of Yahweh. Again the NT was not written when He proclaimed this. So what was the word of God at that time? The Hebrew scriptures.
The NT directly quotes the OT/Hebrew scriptures so much that if you removed all the direct quotations gee there wouldn't be much left. The NT is established and founded in the OT.

Paul establishes the Mosaic Law Rom 3:31.

This says it all in regards to your replacement theology about Israel reconcile this in your doctrine!!!

NKJ Romans 11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

The context is the nation and people of Israel.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 11:22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I.

Gee I guess Paul must have felt on the outer. You know the guy who wrote most of the NT, The Hebrew, The Israelite, The Benjamite. The one from the nation of Israel who God chose, the one that says that God has not casts His people away or replaced with the ridiculous notion of the church.

Which church has replaced Israel? The Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Uniting Church, Seventh Day Adventists, which one answer that. There were no denominational churches in the days of Jesus, they were known as "Of the Way" and viewed as another sect of Judaism. Why because they were Jews/Hebrews for many years before gentiles even started coming in.

STUDY YOUR BIBLE AND NOT JUST READ IT!!!

Shalom Friend
 

theefaith

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You have no understanding on how covenants in the Bible work. There are many covenants God made throughout the scriptures. One never replaced the other ever. Noah, Moses, Israel, David they all build on top of each other. We still experience the covenant of Noah today. If you look up in the sky you may see a rainbow every now and then. Did the Mosaic Covenant replace the Noah covenant of course not. The new covenant is more accurately rendered the renewed covenant if you bother to study the words in the original languages and not rely just on the sloppy English translation.
Jesus was an Israelite, A Jew, so you are railing against Him if you are railing against the Jews.

Jesus is the word of God. From Gen - Rev which means all those covenants are Him. So you are saying that He abolished Himself, that He replaced Himself with manmade foolish doctrines of the early church fathers. LOL. He is the commandments, He spoke the commandments, He gave the commandments. John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. No NT when this was spoken

In Matt 4:4 Jesus directly quoting Deut 8:3 Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of Yahweh. Again the NT was not written when He proclaimed this. So what was the word of God at that time? The Hebrew scriptures.
The NT directly quotes the OT/Hebrew scriptures so much that if you removed all the direct quotations gee there wouldn't be much left. The NT is established and founded in the OT.

Paul establishes the Mosaic Law Rom 3:31.

This says it all in regards to your replacement theology about Israel reconcile this in your doctrine!!!

NKJ Romans 11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

The context is the nation and people of Israel.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 11:22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I.

Gee I guess Paul must have felt on the outer. You know the guy who wrote most of the NT, The Hebrew, The Israelite, The Benjamite. The one from the nation of Israel who God chose, the one that says that God has not casts His people away or replaced with the ridiculous notion of the church.

Which church has replaced Israel? The Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Uniting Church, Seventh Day Adventists, which one answer that. There were no denominational churches in the days of Jesus, they were known as "Of the Way" and viewed as another sect of Judaism. Why because they were Jews/Hebrews for many years before gentiles even started coming in.

STUDY YOUR BIBLE AND NOT JUST READ IT!!!

Shalom Friend

the universal church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles
 

theefaith

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You have no understanding on how covenants in the Bible work. There are many covenants God made throughout the scriptures. One never replaced the other ever. Noah, Moses, Israel, David they all build on top of each other. We still experience the covenant of Noah today. If you look up in the sky you may see a rainbow every now and then. Did the Mosaic Covenant replace the Noah covenant of course not. The new covenant is more accurately rendered the renewed covenant if you bother to study the words in the original languages and not rely just on the sloppy English translation.
Jesus was an Israelite, A Jew, so you are railing against Him if you are railing against the Jews.

Jesus is the word of God. From Gen - Rev which means all those covenants are Him. So you are saying that He abolished Himself, that He replaced Himself with manmade foolish doctrines of the early church fathers. LOL. He is the commandments, He spoke the commandments, He gave the commandments. John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. No NT when this was spoken

In Matt 4:4 Jesus directly quoting Deut 8:3 Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of Yahweh. Again the NT was not written when He proclaimed this. So what was the word of God at that time? The Hebrew scriptures.
The NT directly quotes the OT/Hebrew scriptures so much that if you removed all the direct quotations gee there wouldn't be much left. The NT is established and founded in the OT.

Paul establishes the Mosaic Law Rom 3:31.

This says it all in regards to your replacement theology about Israel reconcile this in your doctrine!!!

NKJ Romans 11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

The context is the nation and people of Israel.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 11:22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I.

Gee I guess Paul must have felt on the outer. You know the guy who wrote most of the NT, The Hebrew, The Israelite, The Benjamite. The one from the nation of Israel who God chose, the one that says that God has not casts His people away or replaced with the ridiculous notion of the church.

Which church has replaced Israel? The Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Uniting Church, Seventh Day Adventists, which one answer that. There were no denominational churches in the days of Jesus, they were known as "Of the Way" and viewed as another sect of Judaism. Why because they were Jews/Hebrews for many years before gentiles even started coming in.

STUDY YOUR BIBLE AND NOT JUST READ IT!!!

Shalom Friend

who is the mediator of the mosaic covenant?
 

Ancient

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the universal church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles

You seem so certain that Jesus was proclaiming that Peter was that Rock. How do you know and I will try and paint a picture here that the "church" that Jesus was talking about was not founded on Himself. Picture this Jesus talking to Peter. Saying Peter on this Rock I will build my church. Putting His hand on His on chest saying I am the Rock, which the Bible repeatedly over and over proclaims the God/Yahweh/Yeshua/Jesus is the Rock.
For example whoever builds his house on the Rock. That is just one example.

A different perspective can change the world.

Shalom Friend
 

Ancient

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who is the mediator of the mosaic covenant?

Who spoke the Mosaic Covenant, who was that same word that was spoken that never changes, is the same yesterday, today and forever. Like I said covenants build on top of each other they don't replace each other. Like I said the Noahic Covenant is evident today. Heaven and earth will pass away before one jot or tittle passes from the law. When I woke up this morning Praise God the heavens and the earth still existed. The NT wasn't written when this was proclaimed. It was The Torah, The Hebrew Scriptures referred to here as that are what jots and tittles can be found in.

Shalom Friend
 

theefaith

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You seem so certain that Jesus was proclaiming that Peter was that Rock. How do you know and I will try and paint a picture here that the "church" that Jesus was talking about was not founded on Himself. Picture this Jesus talking to Peter. Saying Peter on this Rock I will build my church. Putting His hand on His on chest saying I am the Rock, which the Bible repeatedly over and over proclaims the God/Yahweh/Yeshua/Jesus is the Rock.
For example whoever builds his house on the Rock. That is just one example.

A different perspective can change the world.

Shalom Friend

Christ is the rock and only savior
But the rock the church is built is Peter
His person

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15


Matt 16:17-19

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

You can’t give the keys or authority or power to a confession!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4 we must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Lk 24:27 Acts 2:42 Acts 8, eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 thee faith not read scripture and make you’re own faith!

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

God always establishes order in obedience to hierarchical authority of fathers! Heb 13:17

Protestantism is a sin against the Christian virtue of obedience!
(Spiritual anarchy)

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Jn 20:21-23 as the father sent me, so send I you. (The apostles)

All Protestantism can produce is confusion, anarchy, disobedience, spiritual blindness, pride, presumption, and arrogant rebellion!
 

theefaith

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Matthew 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:
Matt 17:27 Jesus and peter are one

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Isa 2221-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18


Christ founded the church on Peter!
And the apostles!
Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

You CANNOT give the keys (jurisdictional authority) to a confession but to a person! Peter
Vs 19 I give unto thee (Peter) thou shalt bind (Peter) thou shalt loose (Peter)

Only the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors and those members of Christ by faith and baptism United with them, the communion of the saints
Jn 16:10 matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23
Jn 10:16

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The office of apostle that has the three fold office, to teach: to govern the church: and to sanctify by the sacraments or sacred oaths (promises) of the father! Acts 2:38-39 with ez 36:25-27 Heb 8:6

Teaching authority of Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles

1 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Jude 1: 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

The holy church does not usurp Christ’s authority, the holy church establishes it throughout the whole world, and thru all time!

The holy apostles do not usurp Christ’s kingdom, the apostles administer the kingdom for Christ who ascended to heaven!

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!


2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.





Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 

theefaith

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Who spoke the Mosaic Covenant, who was that same word that was spoken that never changes, is the same yesterday, today and forever. Like I said covenants build on top of each other they don't replace each other. Like I said the Noahic Covenant is evident today. Heaven and earth will pass away before one jot or tittle passes from the law. When I woke up this morning Praise God the heavens and the earth still existed. The NT wasn't written when this was proclaimed. It was The Torah, The Hebrew Scriptures referred to here as that are what jots and tittles can be found in.

Shalom Friend

no it was Moses then Josua now there is only one mediator but of the new and eternal covenant

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

replaced by the new covenant
 

Ancient

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no it was Moses then Josua now there is only one mediator but of the new and eternal covenant

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

replaced by the new covenant

Oh dear, I am tapping out of this discussion. I know when to leave it.

Shalom Friend
 

Jay Ross

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Oh dear, I am tapping out of this discussion. I know when to leave it.

Shalom Friend

I would understand your reason for not continuing a conversation with a person who is intransient in their understand of what is expressed within the scriptures. There is a time where it is best to withdraw from the conversation. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force the horse to drink, is very true.

Shalom
 

theefaith

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I would understand your reason for not continuing a conversation with a person who is intransient in their understand of what is expressed within the scriptures. There is a time where it is best to withdraw from the conversation. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force the horse to drink, is very true.

Shalom

Pray enlighten us!
 

theefaith

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I would understand your reason for not continuing a conversation with a person who is intransient in their understand of what is expressed within the scriptures. There is a time where it is best to withdraw from the conversation. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force the horse to drink, is very true.

Shalom

or maybe he is defeated
 

theefaith

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Proof the new covenant church superseded the old covenant

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelvetribes of Israel.