Infant baptism biblical?

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Grailhunter

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I think Catholics misunderstand those passages. It says do in remembrance of me. Key point is remembrance. It doesn't say you're eating the Lord's body and drinking his blood. I see we're going to disagree on that.

Devin, sorry about your dizzy.
As far as the bread and wine ritual, you need to re-read John chapter 6 carefully.
Granted there has been much disagreement on the bread and wine ritual, what it means and what happens during it and the ramifications. That aside and cutting to the chase...whatever it is, is extremely important and serious because of what happened during this conversation and what Christ said about it.
Christ is talking to a multitude and at least some are Jews, and it appears to be a discussion because they going back and forth. And they asked in verse 28 “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Christ's answer to that pretty much takes up the next 30 verses, so it is not a vague set of scriptures.

In His answer he makes it clear if you do not to this....“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. Verse 53 The words Truly truly means matter of fact. Then...He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. Verse 54 This one is interesting because does it mean that if you do not do what He said, He will not raise you on the last day and you will not have eternal life. .Then verse 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Is it important that Christ abides in us and we in Him? Do we want Christ to abide in us and we in Him? If you do not perform this ritual does either happen? One thing is clear, there is no hint of a symbology here, it is not a thought, it is an action, because Christ performs this ritual.

Of course they have been debating this for a long time, but the ramifications and seriousness of it is clear in the context of what happened...What Christ said set everyone back. It stopped the conversation He was having with the people. His own disciples were aghasted....verse 60 And when it was all said and done....Many of His disciples no longer walked with Him....verse 66 Serious enough that He asked His Apostles if they were going to leave too....verse 67.

For one there are no other scriptures like this. So the understanding or interpretation varies, but what is clear is what Christ said,...no life in you...and eternal life depends on it.

I do not think that this ritual is fully understood, but I highly recommend participating in it.
 
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devin553344

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Devin, sorry about your dizzy.
As far as the bread and wine ritual, you need to re-read John chapter 6 carefully.
Granted there has been much disagreement on the bread and wine ritual, what it means and what happens during it and the ramifications. That aside and cutting to the chase...whatever it is, is extremely important and serious because of what happened during this conversation and what Christ said about it.
Christ is talking to a multitude and at least some are Jews, and it appears to be a discussion because they going back and forth. And they asked in verse 28 “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Christ's answer to that pretty much takes up the next 30 verses, so it is not a vague set of scriptures.

In His answer he makes it clear if you do not to this....“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. Verse 53 The words Truly truly means matter of fact. Then...He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. Verse 54 This one is interesting because does it mean that if you do not do what He said, He will not raise you on the last day and you will not have eternal life. .Then verse 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Is it important that Christ abides in us and we in Him? Do we want Christ to abide in us and we in Him? If you do not perform this ritual does either happen? One thing is clear, there is no hint of a symbology here, it is not a thought, it is an action, because Christ performs this ritual.

Of course they have been debating this for a long time, but the ramifications and seriousness of it is clear in the context of what happened...What Christ said set everyone back. It stopped the conversation He was having with the people. His own disciples were aghasted....verse 60 And when it was all said and done....Many of His disciples no longer walked with Him....verse 66 Serious enough that He asked His Apostles if they were going to leave too....verse 67.

For one there are no other scriptures like this. So the understanding or interpretation varies, but what is clear is what Christ said,...no life in you...and eternal life depends on it.

I do not think that this ritual is fully understood, but I highly recommend participating in it.
I liked your reply although it's somewhat naive. Did you sacrifice Jesus and after he died eat his flesh and drink his blood? No you didn't, you ate bread and drank wine instead. So how does God manifest his body and blood to this bread and wine? Thru the holy spirit perhaps since he is not set to return until the second coming. And since he has not returned how did you get to his flesh and blood? That is all contained in his body which is very far away from us. Think about it. Even the Catholic Mass says, we are not worthy to receive this therefore bless us with his spirit.
 

Grailhunter

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I liked your reply although it's somewhat naive. Did you sacrifice Jesus and after he died eat his flesh and drink his blood? No you didn't, you ate bread and drank wine instead. So how does God manifest his body and blood to this bread and wine? Thru the holy spirit perhaps since he is not set to return until the second coming. And since he has not returned how did you get to his flesh and blood? That is all contained in his body which is very far away from us. Think about it. Even the Catholic Mass says, we are not worthy to receive this therefore bless us with his spirit.

Like I said it is bread and wine. And the debate of what that means and what it does has been going on for centuries. But those words are from Christ's own mouth...it is all a matter of.... if it is important to you, are Christ's Words valid. Very clear scriptures even if we do not understand the divine connection or why Christ said them. But then if you can deny Christ's words here...how many other places can you deny Christ Words with this type of reasoning....I would say most of the Gospel. If Christ's words are not good enough here, why would they be taken seriously anywhere in the Gospels. The scriptures are clear and the consequences stated and then the ritual performed. What else do you need? Do think He was kidding....the last supper was one big joke?

How does blood wash away or forgive sins?...it is a Divine principle...a spiritual thing that cannot be reasoned. So if you do not believe in the bread and wine ritual, why do you believe that Christ's blood had power? How can blood save you? How can God have a Son? We can come up with a list of this sort of thing.

The Catholics LOL institutionalized communion...easier that way. But they do in their own way perform the ritual.
 

Jane_Doe22

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To start with, they deny Jesus is the only Son of the Living God and the only way to Salvation and actually end with universal salvation but lets assume that's off the table.

They were given all this through magic glasses allegedly from an angel names "Moroni". ( not how that works)

No one alive then could hold the office of Apostle or prophet because they could not be an eye witness to the resurrection ( thus no validity)

We wont even get into becoming gods with your own planets and all the Battlestar Galactica stuff
Actual "Mormon" here: Jesus Christ is 100% the divine Son of God. Salvation only comes through faith in Him.
I could address rat of these misconceptions, but the divinity of Christ & necessity of faith is the most important thing.
 
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An Apologetic Sheepdog

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Actual "Mormon" here:

Sorry to hear that, regardless of your status, I know as much if not more of the false LDS doctrine that you probably do givenn the number i have dealt with.

Jesus Christ is 100% the divine Son of God. Salvation only comes through faith in Him.

Not quite. ( per the whole story) Tell us about "mother god" Lucifer the brother and eventual universal salvation. (Jesus just gets there first)

Tell us about Kolob too while we are addressing misconceptions

I could address rat of these misconceptions, but the divinity of Christ & necessity of faith is the most important thing.

And I'll expose every one of them so lets get started shall we?
 

Jane_Doe22

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Sorry to hear that, regardless of your status, I know as much if not more of the false LDS doctrine that you probably do givenn the number i have dealt with.



Not quite. ( per the whole story) Tell us about "mother god" Lucifer the brother and eventual universal salvation. (Jesus just gets there first)

Tell us about Kolob too while we are addressing misconceptions



And I'll expose every one of them so lets get started shall we?
The "Im know more about Mormonism than the actual Mormon whose throughly studied things for decades" routine is very false and one of proudly deaf ears. If you want to cling to the things you "know" I and other 'Mormons' believe, then you obviously have that right-- regardless of whether or not they are accurate.
 

An Apologetic Sheepdog

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The "Im know more about Mormonism than the actual Mormon whose throughly studied things for decades" routine is very false and one of proudly deaf ears. If you want to cling to the things you "know" I and other 'Mormons' believe, then you obviously have that right-- regardless of whether or not they are accurate.

Nice non answer and diversion. Typical methods promoted by FAIR and SHIELDS when one is faced with a direct challenge to core doctrines that they cannot explain away with circular doctrine or the BOM.

Avoid the answer and play either the victim card or the denial card. (Yes i am familiar with their ways too)

In terms of discernment, this is one way you can be sure all LDS doctrine is false and a one way ticket to hell for anyone beholden to it. Its so weak that when challenged they cant defend it so they run and hide.

Why don't you "test me' and see for yourself how "very false' my claims are? ( we both know that answer but i want to see if you can admit it)

Go ahead and get a ticket with one of the LDS apologetic organizations and lets see.
 

Taken

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Infant baptism biblical?
OP ^

Vague question.

Water baptism of infants?
Never mentioned in Scripture.
No requirement.

Spiritual baptism of infants?
Never mentioned in Scripture.
No requirement.

Spiritual baptism of children who physically die?
The Lord searches their heart like He does all others, and Spiritually Baptizes those IN heartful belief.
God knows all things.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Nice non answer and diversion. Typical methods promoted by FAIR and SHIELDS when one is faced with a direct challenge to core doctrines that they cannot explain away with circular doctrine or the BOM.

Avoid the answer and play either the victim card or the denial card. (Yes i am familiar with their ways too)

In terms of discernment, this is one way you can be sure all LDS doctrine is false and a one way ticket to hell for anyone beholden to it. Its so weak that when challenged they cant defend it so they run and hide.

Why don't you "test me' and see for yourself how "very false' my claims are? ( we both know that answer but i want to see if you can admit it)

Go ahead and get a ticket with one of the LDS apologetic organizations and lets see.
Extremely proudly deaf ears.
 

GEN2REV

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Infant Baptism Biblical?

Nothing your church does is Biblical.

Except for the atrocities of the past and those to come; all prophesied in the Bible, especially Revelation.
 

DJT_47

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Acts 16:15
And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

does not say accept infants nor does the Bible say that
Further, Acts 5:14
14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
 

GRACE ambassador

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op: infant baptism Biblical?
No.

past "prophecy/law" water baptism?

"He that believeth AND is baptism shall be saved" (Mrk 16:16)​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Current "Grace/Mystery" ONE Spiritual Baptism:

"...There IS... ONE Baptism..." (Eph 4:5) = Which?:
"For by ONE Spirit are we all baptized into ONE body,​
whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond​
or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE Spirit."​
(1Co 12:13)​

Thus, Today, Under His Grace, God Has ONE, Which Is Not =
to 2, and it is not water, According To The Holy Scriptures:


Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!
 
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theefaith

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Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).
 

BreadOfLife

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Correct. Just ignore everything that theefaith says and you'll be fine. He takes everything out of context to fit his unScriptural Catholic doctrine.

In Acts 2:38-39, Peter tells the crowd:
“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is for you AND FOR YOUR CHILDREN and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Peter Baptized the entire household of Cornelius - based on the faith of Cornelius (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14).
Paul Baptized the entire households of the Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:23-33) and Stephanas (1 Cor. 1:16) - based on the faith of these 2 men.

On the other hand -
- Where is the idea that we must accept Jesus as “personal Lord and Savior” in the Bible?
- How about “Altar Calls”?
-
Where are Christian “Infant Dedications” spoken of?
- Can you show me the verse that teaches Sola Scriptura?
-
How about Sola Fide?
-
Where is there a SINGLE example in the Bible where the words of Baptism are spoken over the person being Baptized?

If these things aren’t taught in Scripture – WHERE do Protestants get them from?
 
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Illuminator

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Zero in the Bible about infant baptism...
Zero in the Bible about age restrictions for baptism. What kind of bizarre cult excludes babies from being members of a household? Both Luther and Calvin baptized babies. but rebelling against your own Protestant founders makes you a true Protestant.
 
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Titus

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Infant baptism is unscriptual.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the death, burial and ressurection re-enacted.

1Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel enacted.

Romans 6:1-4, Dead to sin, buried in water, ressurected to a new life,
-for do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death.
-Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Baptism in Jesus' name according to Jesus is His gospel,
Mark 16:15-16,
-And Jesus said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature, he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus made it clear that the conditions in His gospel are:
1) belief/faith
2) baptism

In Acts 2:38 we learn about Peter preaching to Jews the Messiah and how they were gulity of His murder.
Once the Jews believed that Jesus was in fact their Messiah they asked Peter what they should do about this terrifying fact that they are guilty for murdering God on a Roman cross.

Peter told the those Jews who now have faith in Jesus to,
Acts 2:37-38,
-Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What we need to learn from this regarding water baptism is the order of salvation.
First requirement of Jesus is to believe, Mark 16:15-16.
Second requirement of Peter preaching the gospel is repentance.
Third requirement of Peter preaching the gospel is baptism.

Therefore to be water baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27,
One must meet the qualifications of Faith repentance...

Never in Jesus' gospel will you find one being baptized that had no faith in Jesus.
To be baptized one had to have intellectual knowledge of Jesus and understanding of the gospel.

The question that must be asked is: Do babies meet these qualifications/conditions
If the answer is no, then to baptize a baby is to do so in a unscriptual manner.

Babies do not believe in Jesus for they are without understanding.
Therefore babies have no need of being baptized.

Babies cannot understand why they are being baptized for they are without understanding,
Deuteronomy 1:39,
-Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I give it and they shall possess it.

Note as far as the household argument.
Very simple to refute: not all households have babies or even children.
My household has no one under 45 years of age.

If Paul or Peter baptized my whole household they would be baptizing adults not babies or children.
 
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