Infant baptism biblical?

[amigo de christo]

A good benchmark I Jesus who was 12 when he started doing his father's work. Also, Acts 5:14 says both men and women. And infants can't believe, confess their belief, nor repent nor do they have sin committed to repent of. You must believe and confess prior yo baptism according to the scriptures.

Phillip would have said the same .
When the eunach long ago asked him this question .
See , look here is some water , what does HINDER ME from being baptized .
And phillip then said IF YE BELIEVE with all your heart .........................YE MAY BE Baptized .
Yes indeed my friend . What infant believes and confesses in Christ . They cant even talk yet .
Baptism cometh AFTER , not before repentance and faith . Exactly .

 

[Illuminator]

A good benchmark I Jesus who was 12 when he started doing his father's work. Also, Acts 5:14 says both men and women. And infants can't believe, confess their belief, nor repent nor do they have sin committed to repent of. You must believe and confess prior yo baptism according to the scriptures.

Original sin

It’s critically important for us to recognize that original sin is not something that’s transmitted biologically or psychologically. Yet at the same time we can speak of original sin as being something hereditary. Pope Pius XI wrote that “Original sin is the hereditary but impersonal fault of Adam’s descendants.”

Even that word choice - fault – might lead you to believe that original sin is something that renders us guilty. But it isn’t. Think of fault here in the sense of the San Andreas Fault, the fracture in the earth’s crust that renders California vulnerable to devastating earthquakes. It isn’t my fault, but it’s like a fault line that runs my soul and inclines me to be separate from God.

Original sin is the hereditary but impersonal fault of Adam’s descendants: One man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men…By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, who have sinned in him. (Rom 5:18-19)

The mystery, of course, is how we sinned in Adam. We sinned in Adam, in a sense, because there is a mystical solidarity we share with him, based upon two realities:

• biologically, we’re his descendants; and
• theologically, he’s our covenant head.

As our father, he is our representative in making the covenant with God. Since he broke the covenant, we, his progeny, inherit the consequences. Consider an analogy from human relations: If I mismanaged my business affairs and ended by declaring bankruptcy before passing my estate to my sons and daughter, my creditors could pursue my children, now rendered debtors through our family bond.

In effect, original sin means the loss of sanctifying grace and, therefore, the loss of eternal life. The soul is immortal, and people in hell will live everlastingly, though miserably. Eternal life is more than everlasting. It is God’s life, divine life. God alone is eternal because He utterly transcends time. So when we speak of eternal life, we are talking about sharing in the very being and communion of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And that is what humanity lost through original sin.

Original sin is hereditary but impersonal. It is contracted, not committed; and we contract original sin without consent. That is why God can remove original sin without personal consent, as He does with newborn babies on their baptismal day.

The same thing can be said for actual sin. Actual sin can only be committed through informed consent. And so it can only be removed through informed consent. That’s why we need confession.

 

[Illuminator]

The New International Dictionary of the Christian Church (ed. J. D. Douglas, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, rev. ed., 1978, 100, “Baptism”), another respected Protestant reference work, which shows no inclination for Catholicism at all, in its tone or content, states:

Doctrinally, baptism very early came to be understood as a means of grace or a sacrament, in the sense of an instrumental means of regeneration . . . Infant baptism was practiced in the second century, but only with the aid of an adult sponsor.

The Nicene Creed includes the phrase: “We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.”

The second century is not late at all for a doctrine to be fairly developmentally “mature,” when we stop to recognize something like, e.g., the canon of Scripture. Before 160, the New Testament itself was not always clearly distinguished from other Christian writings. Justin Martyr’s “gospels” contained apocryphal material (he also did not accept Philippians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon as Scripture); Acts was scarcely known or quoted. Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1, 2, 3 John, Jude, and Revelation were not considered part of the canon, and many of these books weren’t even yet quoted.

Therefore, if infant baptism must go due to lack of early enough attestation (as if the 2nd century were too “late”), then the New Testament canon goes with it. Since Protestants will not relinquish the New Testament canon on these grounds, then the argument against infant baptism on the same grounds must collapse, lest a double standard be applied.

Apostolic And Early Church Teaching On Baptism

If infant baptism must go due to lack of early enough attestation (as if the 2nd century were too "late"), then the New Testament canon goes with it.

www.patheos.com

 

[Taken]

If its not possible it’s not required but they still need the grace of baptism then they are taught the faith as they grow up

this promise is to you and you’re children
Acts 2:38-39 ez 36:-25-27

Water Baptism is neither necessary, nor required.
Babies do not CONFESS Belief which IS; ALONG WITH a Bodily DEATH....required to RECEIVE Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Titus]

Water Baptism is neither necessary, nor required.

Hello Taken, you are correct that babies are not baptized in the new testament.
But you are wrong that water baptism is not required.
You must obey God when He gives you a direct command.

Acts 10:47-48,
-Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
-And Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

 

[Jim B]

Hello Taken, you are correct that babies are not baptized in the new testament.
But you are wrong that water baptism is not required.
You must obey God when He gives you a direct command.

Acts 10:47-48,
-Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
-And Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Water baptism is not required. It is a confirmation statement after a person has been born again. Nothing more.

 

[Titus]

Water baptism is not required. It is a confirmation statement after a person has been born again. Nothing more.

You just said a direct commandment of God should be disobeyed.
I'll show you where you will say Gods commandments must be obeyed and then contradict yourself and say you do not have to obey.

1John 3:23-24,
And this is His commandments: that we should believe on the name of His Son jesus Christ...

You know friend you must obey Gods commandment to believe in Jesus.
Jesus commands that you believe in His gospel,

Mark 16:15-16,
-and Jesus said to them, go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.
he who believes(direct command) and is baptized(direct command) will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Jesus is not saying you dont have to believe this is optional.
Jesus is commanding all to believe to be saved!
Now you say Jesus is not telling us we must obey His commandments?
Why do you say we must obey one commandment of God but not the other?

Peter proves water baptism in Jesus name is a direct commandment.
Acts 10:48,
-and Peter commanded them to be baptized.
Friend Jesus told Mark 16:16 to the apostles!!!!
Peter was standing with Jesus when Jesus said "he that believeth and is baptized will be saved"
Peter then repeats what Jesus taught him in Mark 16:16 to Cornelius in Acts 10:48.
Jesus said water baptism is a commandment to Peter and the fest of the apostles in Mark 16:15-16.
Peter repeated this command later in the new testament to Cornelius, Acts 10:48.

Therefore you are disagreeing with Jesus not just me, friend.

 

[Jim B]

You just said a direct commandment of God should be disobeyed.
I'll show you where you will say Gods commandments must be obeyed and then contradict yourself and say you do not have to obey.

1John 3:23-24,
And this is His commandments: that we should believe on the name of His Son jesus Christ...

You know friend you must obey Gods commandment to believe in Jesus.
Jesus commands that you believe in His gospel,

Mark 16:15-16,
-and Jesus said to them, go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.
he who believes(direct command) and is baptized(direct command) will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Jesus is not saying you dont have to believe this is optional.
Jesus is commanding all to believe to be saved!
Now you say Jesus is not telling us we must obey His commandments?
Why do you say we must obey one commandment of God but not the other?

Peter proves water baptism in Jesus name is a direct commandment.
Acts 10:48,
-and Peter commanded them to be baptized.
Friend Jesus told Mark 16:16 to the apostles!!!!
Peter was standing with Jesus when Jesus said "he that believeth and is baptized will be saved"
Peter then repeats what Jesus taught him in Mark 16:16 to Cornelius in Acts 10:48.
Jesus said water baptism is a commandment to Peter and the fest of the apostles in Mark 16:15-16.
Peter repeated this command later in the new testament to Cornelius, Acts 10:48.

Therefore you are disagreeing with Jesus not just me, friend.

No, I am disagreeing with your interpretation of selected verses from the Bible to create doctrine.

1) You are not Jesus.
2) Do you understand the meaning of eisegesis? It is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

1 John 3:23, "And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us." This has nothing to do with baptism.

Mark 16 is part of the "long ending" of Marks' gospel, which most scholars believe was added on to the original gospel. Try handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison if you accept this a Scripture.

Acts 10:44-48, "While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days." Notice that a) these people had already received the Holy Spirit and b) Peter was a very conflicted person. He denied Christ three times (after Jesus called him Satan!) and was called out for being a hypocrite by Paul. Simply because Peter ordered them to be baptized in water doesn't make it a requirement, since they had already been saved (received the Holy Spirit) prior to this.

Finally, I am disagreeing with you, not Jesus.

 

[Titus]

No, I am disagreeing with your interpretation of selected verses from the Bible to create doctrine.

1) You are not Jesus.
2) Do you understand the meaning of eisegesis? It is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

1 John 3:23, "And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us." This has nothing to do with baptism.

Mark 16 is part of the "long ending" of Marks' gospel, which most scholars believe was added on to the original gospel. Try handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison if you accept this a Scripture.

Acts 10:44-48, "While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days." Notice that a) these people had already received the Holy Spirit and b) Peter was a very conflicted person. He denied Christ three times (after Jesus called him Satan!) and was called out for being a hypocrite by Paul. Simply because Peter ordered them to be baptized in water doesn't make it a requirement, since they had already been saved (received the Holy Spirit) prior to this.

Finally, I am disagreeing with you, not Jesus.

No friend, baptism is a direct commandment Acts 10:48. I dont need to interpret that for you. You can read it for yourself,
It's up to you to admit Peter gave a direct commandment to Cornelius.
Just as Jesus gave a direct commandment to Peter in Mark 16:15-16.

Mark 16 is part of the "long ending" of Marks' gospel, which most scholars believe was added on to the original gospel. Try handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison if you accept this a Scripture.

Wrong friend, who told you most scholars dont believe Mark 16:16 is not God breathed?
You need to study the manuscripts.
No one who has studied the manuscripts says Mark 16:16 is not the word of God.
Lying false teachers made that up to promote a false doctrine of faith only and no obedience to Gods commandments to be saved.

Friend, the King James Bible is translated from the manuscript known as the textus receptus.
That manuscript has Mark 16:1-20.
We have two manuscripts that are missing the latter verses in Mark 16.
They are Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.
These two manuscripts are missing entire books of the new testament!!!!
So, are these other books like James for example not part of the canon?

This is the problem of you claiming Mark 16:15-16 is not Gods word.
Do you realize God promised that no man can destroy His word?
If I cannot trust that every book, chapters are supposed to be in my Bible.
THEN I CANNOT PUT MY FAITH IN THE BIBLE.

God is POWERFUL. He will not allow His gospel to be lost.
1Peter 1:25,
-but the word of the Lord endures forever.

Isaiah 40:8,
-The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God endures forever.

Do you believe what the Bible claims of itself, Jim B?
You cannot if you believe it has been so perverted that entire chapters are not God breathed.

 

[Jim B]

No friend, baptism is a direct commandment Acts 10:48. I dont need to interpret that for you. You can read it for yourself,
It's up to you to admit Peter gave a direct commandment to Cornelius.
Just as Jesus gave a direct commandment to Peter in Mark 16:15-16.




Wrong friend, who told you most scholars dont believe Mark 16:16 is not God breathed?
You need to study the manuscripts.
No one who has studied the manuscripts says Mark 16:16 is not the word of God.
Lying false teachers made that up to promote a false doctrine of faith only and no obedience to Gods commandments to be saved.

Friend, the King James Bible is translated from the manuscript known as the textus receptus.
That manuscript has Mark 16:1-20.
We have two manuscripts that are missing the latter verses in Mark 16.
They are Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.
These two manuscripts are missing entire books of the new testament!!!!
So, are these other books like James for example not part of the canon?

This is the problem of you claiming Mark 16:15-16 is not Gods word.
Do you realize God promised that no man can destroy His word?
If I cannot trust that every book, chapters are supposed to be in my Bible.
THEN I CANNOT PUT MY FAITH IN THE BIBLE.

God is POWERFUL. He will not allow His gospel to be lost.
1Peter 1:25,
-but the word of the Lord endures forever.

Isaiah 40:8,
-The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God endures forever.

Do you believe what the Bible claims of itself, Jim B?
You cannot if you believe it has been so perverted that entire chapters are not God breathed.

Believe what you want. I disagree with you. So be it.

BTW, please stop with the exaggerations. You are not infallible.

 

[Titus]

Believe what you want. I disagree with you. So be it.

BTW, please stop with the exaggerations. You are not infallible.

You disagree with Peter and Jesus.
Acts 10:48,
-and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

 

[Titus]

Acts 10:44-48, "While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days." Notice that a) these people had already received the Holy Spirit and b) Peter was a very conflicted person. He denied Christ three times (after Jesus called him Satan!) and was called out for being a hypocrite by Paul. Simply because Peter ordered them to be baptized in water doesn't make it a requirement, since they had already been saved (received the Holy Spirit) prior to this.

Hello Jim B, would you like me to give you an answer on Cornelius' conversion and your accusation that Peter telling someone to be baptized can be questioned as being right with Jesus?

 

[Jim B]

You disagree with Peter and Jesus.
Acts 10:48,
-and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

No, I disagree with you. You are neither Peter nor Jesus. I believe that Scripture says something different than what you claim. You are not infallible!

 

[Jim B]

Hello Jim B, would you like me to give you an answer on Cornelius' conversion and your accusation that Peter telling someone to be baptized can be questioned as being right with Jesus?

No, I am not interested in your opinion of what Scripture says.

 

[Titus]

Acts 10:44-48, "While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days." Notice that a) these people had already received the Holy Spirit and b) Peter was a very conflicted person. He denied Christ three times (after Jesus called him Satan!) and was called out for being a hypocrite by Paul. Simply because Peter ordered them to be baptized in water doesn't make it a requirement, since they had already been saved (received the Holy Spirit) prior to this

GOOD NEWS! I never give my opinions only Bible. Here is my response to how Cornelius was saved. Later I will address your accusations against Peter not preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ to Cornelius.

First you claim Cornelius was saved before Peter commanded him to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
This is incorrect.
Do you know that Peter tells us how Cornelius was saved?
Its found in Acts 11:14,
-who will tell you WORDS by which you and all your household will be saved.

Peter taught it was words that saved Cornelius.
Not a miraculous gift of tongue speaking. Tongue speaking never saved anyone. Jesus shed blood on the cross is what saves us.

To hear the gospel it must be read to us, that is what saved Cornelius. The word is the gospel, Acts 11:14.
Cornelius heard the word(gospel) preached to him by Peter. And Peter said by words not Holy Spirit tongue speaking saved Cornelius.

Romans 10:17,
-so then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible teaches us faith comes by hearing the WORD! Just as Cornelius did.
The gospel saves! Not tongue speaking.
Romans 1:16,
-for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. For it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes for the jew first and also for the Greek.

We can clearly see that Gods word teaches us that the word of the Lord is what saves. Not miraculous tongue speaking.

Do you know that unsaved men received the Holy Spirit and were never saved?
Cornelius getting a miraculous gift is not proof of his salvation friend.

If the gift of the Holy Spirit proves Cornelius was saved. Then Judas Iscariot was also saved! For he got Holy Spirit miraculous gifts!

Matthew 10:1-5,
-And when Jesus had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits to cast out and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of diseases.
2 -Now the names of the twelve apostles were, first Simon who is called Peter and Andrew, his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother.
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 -Simon the Cananite and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus.

Now you know Holy Spirit miraculous gifts does not prove one is saved.
Believing and obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. That is how we cone in contact with the cleansing blood.

 

[Jim B]

GOOD NEWS! I never give my opinions only Bible. Here is my response to how Cornelius was saved. Later I will address your accusations against Peter not preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ to Cornelius.

First you claim Cornelius was saved before Peter commanded him to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
This is incorrect.
Do you know that Peter tells us how Cornelius was saved?
Its found in Acts 11:14,
-who will tell you WORDS by which you and all your household will be saved.

Peter taught it was words that saved Cornelius.
Not a miraculous gift of tongue speaking. Tongue speaking never saved anyone. Jesus shed blood on the cross is what saves us.

To hear the gospel it must be read to us, that is what saved Cornelius. The word is the gospel, Acts 11:14.
Cornelius heard the word(gospel) preached to him by Peter. And Peter said by words not Holy Spirit tongue speaking saved Cornelius.

Romans 10:17,
-so then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible teaches us faith comes by hearing the WORD! Just as Cornelius did.
The gospel saves! Not tongue speaking.
Romans 1:16,
-for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. For it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes for the jew first and also for the Greek.

We can clearly see that Gods word teaches us that the word of the Lord is what saves. Not miraculous tongue speaking.

Do you know that unsaved men received the Holy Spirit and were never saved?
Cornelius getting a miraculous gift is not proof of his salvation friend.

If the gift of the Holy Spirit proves Cornelius was saved. Then Judas Iscariot was also saved! For he got Holy Spirit miraculous gifts!

Matthew 10:1-5,
-And when Jesus had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits to cast out and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of diseases.
2 -Now the names of the twelve apostles were, first Simon who is called Peter and Andrew, his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother.
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 -Simon the Cananite and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus.

Now you know Holy Spirit miraculous gifts does not prove one is saved.
Believing and obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. That is how we cone in contact with the cleansing blood.

Now you go off on some tangent about "tongue-speaking". Here are two verses from which you might learn something: " For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

When you can interpret Scripture correctly I will discuss things with you. Until then, forget it.

 

[Titus]

Peter was guided by the Holy Spirit to say what he said to Cornelius about being water baptized,
Acts 10:19-20,
-When Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, Behold three men are seeking you.
-Arise therefore go down and go with them doubting nothing; for I have sent them.

God was guiding Peter to do what he did with Cornelius. That is a Biblical fact.
Later Peter commands Cornelius to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
That means Peter did not tell them to be water baptized. It was not by Peter's authority!
It was by Jesus' Authority to have Cornelius water baptized!!
In the name of Jesus Christ is by Jesus' authority.

The Bible would be lying if Cornelius water baptism was not authorized by God himself!
If Peter had just said be water baptized. Then it could be debated that maybe not from God.
But even then there is too much evidence to prove that is good Hermeneutics

 

[Titus]

Now you go off on some tangent about "tongue-speaking". Here are two verses from which you might learn something: " For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

When you can interpret Scripture correctly I will discuss things with you. Until then, forget it.

You are the ONE JIM B. That said Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking not me. Now you're mad that I pointed out your error.

 

[Taken]

Hello Taken, you are correct that babies are not baptized in the new testament.
But you are wrong that water baptism is not required.
You must obey God when He gives you a direct command.

Acts 10:47-48,
-Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
-And Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Hello Titus ~
Disagree Water Baptism IS Required.
There is a difference BETWEEN....FORBIDDING and REQUIRING.
(In context Forbidding was in QUESTION, because not ONLY was water baptism introduced TO the Jews, BY Jews....but AS WELL it was FOR ANY man...Jew or Greek (ie Gentiles)....and that understanding was impressed upon the Jews to understand...NO Forbidding....”even to the Gentiles it was offered”.)........whosoever.

Acts 10 (in context)
[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Gods Order and Way ~
* Works ~ (of the Teacher) Speaking Gods Word...
* Works ~ (of the Student) Believing Gods Word heard, verified, from the Teacher.
* Student Confessing ~ Belief ... Before/To: Teacher/Other men.
* Water Baptism ~ Man to Man ... Mans’ Witness of Man’s Forgiveness of a mans, PAST SINS.
* Gods Spirit ~ “ON”, ie “WITH” that person...
* Should THAT MAN continue IN Belief...the Lord Gods Spirit SHALL REMAIN “WITH” that man “all the days of that mans Natural Life.
...AND WHEN that mans BODY becomes DEAD....The Lord God SHALL THEN, SAVE that mans Living soul.
....IN THAT SCENARIO ^^, a man “continues Believing By his own POWER”....and that man CAN FALL AWAY FROM BELIEF, (before he bodily dies, and THUS shall Forfeit receiving his souls salvation.)

* Confessing ~ Heartful Belief of Gods Word...To the Lord, BY A man. (A mans Service).
* The Lord God ~ IS the Witness.
* The Lord God ~ Searches/Verifies the mans Heartful Belief IS TRUE, (or not).
* A Heartful True Confession? YES...

* IN THIS SCENARIO:
** The man IS Forgiven...ALL PAST sins.
** The man LAYS DOWN his Bodily Life...Crucified with Christ Jesus.
** The man (being accounted Bodily Dead)....RECEIVES his souls Salvation.
** The POWER of Gods Spirit....Enters “IN” that man.
** The mans natural Heart is CIRCUMCISED...he receives a NEW Heart.
** IN the mans NEW Heart...he receives Gods SEED.
** Gods SEED...rebirths the mans “spirit” (truth), from worldly natural truth, TO Gods supernatural truth.
^^^^ ie. BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

** The “POWER of God”....”IS”....”WITH and IN” that man.
** BY The “POWER of God”...FOREVER that man SHALL BELIEVE.

** NEVER AGAIN, can THAT man NOT Believe.....ie SIN!
** NEVER AGAIN, can THAT man SIN AGAINST God.

A man WITH/on God is one thing. <—> mans power.
God WITH/on a man is one thing. <—-> Gods Power.
A man IN God is another thing. <—-> Gods offering, Mans choice.
God IN a man is another thing. <—-> Gods offering, Gods Power.

A man “IN” God, is a man WHOM SHALL FOREVER be “WITH” God.

Water Baptism is a “mans works”, to satisfy the “EYES of of the Water Baptizer as a Witness of a mans confession OF BELIEF”.
THE Water (Only) Baptized man...CAN “continue” to SIN...CAN “repeatedly” ask the Lord for “forgivenesses of his repeated sins”....CAN “fall away FROM Belief”....CAN “fall away FROM BEING “WITH” God and God BEING “WITH” him.

Holy Spirit Baptism is “Gods Works”, that satisfy God, “that that man SHALL FOREVER BE WITH God, and God SHALL FOREVER BE WITH that man”.

A difference BETWEEN...”a man SHALL RECEIVE soul Salvation when his BODY physically Dies....”
And
“ a man WHO RECEIVES soul Salvation IMMEDIATELY when he lays down his bodily life CRUCIFIED with Christ Jesus”....(ie a mans LIVING Sacrifice...called a mans reasonable SERVICE unto the Lord God.). A surety of that mans soul Salvation....A surety that mans “spirit” is BECOME MADE Born of God. (Or ie, OSAS).
(Rom 1:16)
(Rom 10: 10)
(Rom 12:1)
(John 6:51)
(John 6:58)
(John 14:16)
(1 John 3:9)

Water Baptism (of men) assures forgiveness of PAST SINS.
Holy Spirit Baptism (of God) assures forgiveness of PAST SINS “and” from there forward that man Can SIN NO MORE and IS WITH the Lord God Forever.

And remembering...Forgiveness FOLLOWS confession of Belief.
Again...Babies confess Nothing.
Noting...The man hanging next to Jesus, confessed to the Lord Jesus, and was NOT Water Baptized...Yet understood he would receive Salvation when his body physically died.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amigo de christo]

Hello Titus ~
Disagree Water Baptism IS Required.
There is a difference BETWEEN....FORBIDDING and REQUIRING.
(In context Forbidding was in QUESTION, because not ONLY was water baptism introduced TO the Jews, BY Jews....but AS WELL it was FOR ANY man...Jew or Greek (ie Gentiles)....and that understanding was impressed upon the Jews to understand...NO Forbidding....”even to the Gentiles it was offered”.)........whosoever.

Acts 10 (in context)
[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Gods Order and Way ~
* Works ~ (of the Teacher) Speaking Gods Word...
* Works ~ (of the Student) Believing Gods Word heard, verified, from the Teacher.
* Student Confessing ~ Belief ... Before/To: Teacher/Other men.
* Water Baptism ~ Man to Man ... Mans’ Witness of Man’s Forgiveness of a mans, PAST SINS.
* Gods Spirit ~ “ON”, ie “WITH” that person...
* Should THAT MAN continue IN Belief...the Lord Gods Spirit SHALL REMAIN “WITH” that man “all the days of that mans Natural Life.
...AND WHEN that mans BODY becomes DEAD....The Lord God SHALL THEN, SAVE that mans Living soul.
....IN THAT SCENARIO ^^, a man “continues Believing By his own POWER”....and that man CAN FALL AWAY FROM BELIEF, (before he bodily dies, and THUS shall Forfeit receiving his souls salvation.)

* Confessing ~ Heartful Belief of Gods Word...To the Lord, BY A man. (A mans Service).
* The Lord God ~ IS the Witness.
* The Lord God ~ Searches/Verifies the mans Heartful Belief IS TRUE, (or not).
* A Heartful True Confession? YES...

* IN THIS SCENARIO:
** The man IS Forgiven...ALL PAST sins.
** The man LAYS DOWN his Bodily Life...Crucified with Christ Jesus.
** The man (being accounted Bodily Dead)....RECEIVES his souls Salvation.
** The POWER of Gods Spirit....Enters “IN” that man.
** The mans natural Heart is CIRCUMCISED...he receives a NEW Heart.
** IN the mans NEW Heart...he receives Gods SEED.
** Gods SEED...rebirths the mans “spirit” (truth), from worldly natural truth, TO Gods supernatural truth.
^^^^ ie. BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

** The “POWER of God”....”IS”....”WITH and IN” that man.
** BY The “POWER of God”...FOREVER that man SHALL BELIEVE.

** NEVER AGAIN, can THAT man NOT Believe.....ie SIN!
** NEVER AGAIN, can THAT man SIN AGAINST God.

A man WITH/on God is one thing. <—> mans power.
God WITH/on a man is one thing. <—-> Gods Power.
A man IN God is another thing. <—-> Gods offering, Mans choice.
God IN a man is another thing. <—-> Gods offering, Gods Power.

A man “IN” God, is a man WHOM SHALL FOREVER be “WITH” God.

Water Baptism is a “mans works”, to satisfy the “EYES of of the Water Baptizer as a Witness of a mans confession OF BELIEF”.
THE Water (Only) Baptized man...CAN “continue” to SIN...CAN “repeatedly” ask the Lord for “forgivenesses of his repeated sins”....CAN “fall away FROM Belief”....CAN “fall away FROM BEING “WITH” God and God BEING “WITH” him.

Holy Spirit Baptism is “Gods Works”, that satisfy God, “that that man SHALL FOREVER BE WITH God, and God SHALL FOREVER BE WITH that man”.

A difference BETWEEN...”a man SHALL RECEIVE soul Salvation when his BODY physically Dies....”
And
“ a man WHO RECEIVES soul Salvation IMMEDIATELY when he lays down his bodily life CRUCIFIED with Christ Jesus”....(ie a mans LIVING Sacrifice...called a mans reasonable SERVICE unto the Lord God.). A surety of that mans soul Salvation....A surety that mans “spirit” is BECOME MADE Born of God. (Or ie, OSAS).
(Rom 1:16)
(Rom 10: 10)
(Rom 12:1)
(John 6:51)
(John 6:58)
(John 14:16)
(1 John 3:9)

Water Baptism (of men) assures forgiveness of PAST SINS.
Holy Spirit Baptism (of God) assures forgiveness of PAST SINS “and” from there forward that man Can SIN NO MORE and IS WITH the Lord God Forever.

And remembering...Forgiveness FOLLOWS confession of Belief.
Again...Babies confess Nothing.
Noting...The man hanging next to Jesus, confessed to the Lord Jesus, and was NOT Water Baptized...Yet understood he would receive Salvation when his body physically died.

Glory to God,
Taken

We , After BELIEVING , should be water baptized . Any christain should know
its not the event itself that saved you , if so why did phillip just not baptize that man .
yet we should never not do it , AFTER believing . The early church did it . we should too .
But again i want to remind us about phillip and the eunach .
When the eunach saw water and said what does HINDER ME , PREVENT ME , from being baptized ,
notice what phillip said . IF , IF YE BELIEVE , BELIEVE , BELIEVE with your heart YE MAY BE .
Water baptism follows FAITH . Aka its useless if one has NOT FAITH IN CHRIST . cause the water itself dont save you
IF it did , how come phillip didnt just THROW THE MAN into the water and say YE SAVED NOW .
NO . ONE MUST BELIEVE in order to be saved and THEN be baptized .