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Instructed to “Flee,” why stage in Judea?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by guysmith, May 28, 2008.

  1. guysmith

    guysmith New Member

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    Instructed to “Flee,” why stage in Judea?Christ stated: Matt 24: 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.My response: If Petra, Jordan is the place-of-safety, as so many of you have expounded, then why be in Judea at all, why not just go directly to Petra? Also, it would take several days to get to Petra by foot, and according to prophecy the AC’s armies will be Israel and will be responsible for killing 2/3 the population.I believe that fleeing from Judea to Jordan is a misinterpretation which is why I raised this question. Think abut it, we know that the AC is going to desecrate the temple 3 ½ years after the start of the Tribulation period. So anyone that would be following Christ’s instructions, would have to know the time table and, in affect, would know when the AC is going to enter the temple. If Christ intended the survivors to end up in Jordan, why would he even suggest being in the Jerusalem area?In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
     
  2. Just-the-facts

    Just-the-facts New Member

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    (guysmith;50679)
    Instructed to “Flee,” why stage in Judea?Christ stated: Matt 24: 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.My response: If Petra, Jordan is the place-of-safety, as so many of you have expounded, then why be in Judea at all, why not just go directly to Petra? Also, it would take several days to get to Petra by foot, and according to prophecy the AC’s armies will be Israel and will be responsible for killing 2/3 the population.I believe that fleeing from Judea to Jordan is a misinterpretation which is why I raised this question. Think abut it, we know that the AC is going to desecrate the temple 3 ½ years after the start of the Tribulation period. So anyone that would be following Christ’s instructions, would have to know the time table and, in affect, would know when the AC is going to enter the temple. If Christ intended the survivors to end up in Jordan, why would he even suggest being in the Jerusalem area?In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
    That's because Jesus was not speaking to Christians in that particular verse. He new the anti-christ will have been in power for 3 1/2 years by now. And his seat of power will be Jerusalem on the "holy mountain" Mt Zion. (Daniel 11:45) He was speaking to the 144,000 Jews that will be on earth during the wrath of God. The anti-christ will be setting in the temple calling himself god (II The 2:3,4 by this time because it is right after the abomination of desolation. (Mt24:24) There will be no Christians left alive in Judea. The 144,000 will realize their mistake in rejecting Jesus when they see the abomination of desolation foretold by Daniel. Then they will flee to caves near the dead sea that are being stocked with food right now by the Haraites Jews. This "sect" of Judaism rejects the Pharisee teachings found in the Talmud and hold to the Old Testament Mosaic doctrine. The Haraites have been persecuted in Israel by the Masonic Cabalistic brand of Pharisee (Talmudic Judaism) dominant in Israel and the world. The Haraites will no doubt be numbered among the 144,000 found in Rev 7 & 14. I don't know why anyone would think the the valley of the Kings in Petra which is not in Judea and was an Egyptian strong hold would be where anyone would flee. And just as you mentioned they would not have time since Jesus said don't even take the time to get your coat in the house.
     
  3. Vindicated

    Vindicated New Member

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    anyone have the latitude and longitude coordinates? lol we should have a sticky of a photo of where this place is on google earth
     
  4. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    Maybe it is not future, but a past event..Jesus is addressing his disciples privately, and tells them to flee.They did.The unbelieving remnant would fall and be exiled to all nations;
    But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

    MATT 24"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Antichrist is ruling from there at this time the two wittness have been killed anyone who is sealed with the truth of God knows when they see this that the return of Christ is upon us those who stay around after the wittness are killed are followers of Antichrist. The abomination of desolation Satan declaring himself god will be the trigger to awaken many Jews to the fact that this is not their Mosiah(messiah) My understanding of Jewish teaching has the messiah paving the way for God so when the messiah declares himself god they will know this is wrong,an abomination. So I see the only ones not reconizing these signs at all and staying in Judea are followers of Antichrist. God is going to wipe out that entire city at His coming, and that is why He is saying, at My coming, you had better get out of Judaea and Jerusalem. Time will be short and that city will be completely wiped out, turned to dust and made ready for the new temple of Ezekiel 40 through 48.So I guess Im saying I pretty much agree with Just the facts
     
  6. lizz7711

    lizz7711 New Member

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    Time will be short and that city will be completely wiped out, turned to dust and made ready for the new temple of Ezekiel 40 through 48.
    Why would God command building of a temple such as that in Ezek. 40-48 AFTER Christ has come and gotten rid of any need for a physical temple full of rooms designed for animal sacrifices? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Can anyone please enlighten me???thanks:)
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (guysmith;50679)
    Instructed to “Flee,” why stage in Judea?Christ stated: Matt 24: 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.My response: If Petra, Jordan is the place-of-safety, as so many of you have expounded, then why be in Judea at all, why not just go directly to Petra? Also, it would take several days to get to Petra by foot, and according to prophecy the AC’s armies will be Israel and will be responsible for killing 2/3 the population.I believe that fleeing from Judea to Jordan is a misinterpretation which is why I raised this question. Think abut it, we know that the AC is going to desecrate the temple 3 ½ years after the start of the Tribulation period. So anyone that would be following Christ’s instructions, would have to know the time table and, in affect, would know when the AC is going to enter the temple. If Christ intended the survivors to end up in Jordan, why would he even suggest being in the Jerusalem area?In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
    I dont know that I nessairly agree with this but you might find this Jewish story of interest on this subject But it is food for thought....Mic 2:12 ¶ I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of [the multitude of] men.At the sheepfolds of Bozrah. -Mic.2:12-13 BOZRAH, NOT PETRA. THE REAL STORY IS THE FLIGHT OF THE WOMAN, GOD'S ELECT, TO A PLACE OF EXILE AND NURTURING DURING THE TRIBULATION. THE BIBLE CALLS IT BOZRAH AND IT IS PROBABLY A FARAWAY PLACE. THAT STORY IS BEING SWITCHED OUT IN EXCHANGE FOR A FALSE STORY ABOUT A SUPPOSED ESCAPE TO PETRA BY THE POPULATION OF ISRAEL. http://endtimepilgrim.org/bozexile.htmSmith's Bible Dictionary Boz’rah (fortress ). In Edom, the city of Jobab the son of Zerah, one of the early king of that nation. (Genesis 36:33; 1 Chronicles 1:44) Mentioned by Isaiah, (Isaiah 34:6; 63:1) in connection with Edom, and by Jeremiah, (Jeremiah 49:13,22; Amos 1:12) and (Micah 2:12) Its modern representative is el-Busaireh , which lies on the mountain district to the southeast of the Dead Sea. In his catalogue of the cities of the land of Moab, Jeremiah, (Jeremiah 48:24) mentions a Bozrah as in "the plain country" (ver 21), i.e. the high level downs on the east of the Dead sea............... Bozrah - enclosure; fortress. (1.) The city of Jobab, one of the early Edomite kings (Gen. 36:33). This place is mentioned by the prophets in later times (Isa. 34:6; Jer. 49:13; Amos 1:12; Micah 2:12). Its modern representative is el-Busseireh. It lies in the mountain district of Petra, 20 miles to the south-east of the Dead Sea. (2.) A Moabite city in the "plain country" (Jer. 48:24), i.e., on the high level down on the east of the Dead Sea. It is probably the modern Buzrah
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (lizz7711;50771)
    Why would God command building of a temple such as that in Ezek. 40-48 AFTER Christ has come and gotten rid of any need for a physical temple full of rooms designed for animal sacrifices? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Can anyone please enlighten me???thanks:)
    When we are talking about the "Temple" it is actually a mistake to speak of the wonderful series of courts and buildings, described in these final chapters of Ezekiel, collectively as "the Temple". The proper term is "The Sanctuary", as the description starts to unfold in chapter 40.The spiritual significance of the number five denotes "Divine grace". It is God adding His gifts and blessing to the works of His hands. This is why five is the leading factor in the Tabernacle [Sanctuary] measurements.the millennial "Temple" is really the Palace, the home of the Messiah, and shows the connect our Lord Jesus Christ will have with the "city of the Great King."This is because our Lord Jesus Christ will then be with us forever, and all mankind will be living in their incorruptible bodies, We will see at the glorious "Dedication" of the Sanctuary, which is mentioned in Ezekiel 43:2-6, Jehovah's glorious entry is through the gate of the outward Sanctuary, on the east side, which will then be closed for entry by everyone, except the "Prince"
     
  9. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    Why would God command building of a temple such as that in Ezek. 40-48 AFTER Christ has come and gotten rid of any need for a physical temple full of rooms designed for animal sacrifices? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Can anyone please enlighten me???
    I dont think God will take pleasure in it, he takes pleasure in us recognising Jesus for who he is, and us being conformed to his image.Doesnt mean that the temple wont be built, even though I dont believe God wants it built.Jesus said that he had come in his Fathers name, but they dont recieve him.But if someone were to come in his own name , him you will recieve.This someone in his own name may allow them to rebuild the temple and continue the OC.This is not what God wants Jews to do i think.Its a slap in the face to his beloved sons sacrifice for their sins---once and for all...........It would be unbelief in the gospel of how people are really saved.
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The temple we are talking about here is built after the coming of Christ in the millieumthe millennial "Temple" is really the Palace, the home of the Messiah, and shows the connect our Lord Jesus Christ will have with the "city of the Great King."This is because our Lord Jesus Christ will then be with us forever, and all mankind will be living in their incorruptible bodies, We will see at the glorious "Dedication" of the Sanctuary, which is mentioned in Ezekiel 43:2-6, Jehovah's glorious entry is through the gate of the outward Sanctuary, on the east side, which will then be closed for entry by everyone, except the "Prince"
     
  11. guysmith

    guysmith New Member

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    Kriss,If God is going to protect Israel in Jordan, then why did God make the land of Israel the promised land? Also, If only the AC forces will be in Jerusalem at that time as you say, then please give me an explanation for the following verses:Revelation 111I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
     
  12. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    The temple we are talking about here is built after the coming of Christ in the millieum

    This is because our Lord Jesus Christ will then be with us forever, and all mankind will be living in their incorruptible bodies,
    The place of incorruptable bodies is the fathers house....where only righteousness dwellls.--1cor 15This is the place that Jesus has gone to prepare for us. It is not prepared for this earth...Jesus kingdom is not of this world...never will be.Like Peter, i look for the day of God, in which the the old will pass, and the new comes, where only righteousness dwells.The 1000 year rule on earth is a myth.Heaven and earth will pass away, but my word wont pass away said Jesus also about his coming.Without using rev, show me NT teaching on the millenium.I say this because most of the NT was written before AD 70,yet rev-Johns letters, written 20 years or so later.So NT greeks for 20 years had what teaching on the millenium?NothingThey had 2 pet 3, and their eye on this day of God, and the old heavens passing, and the hope of the home where there is only righteousness.They looked for these things, so should we.
     
  13. lizz7711

    lizz7711 New Member

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    (jeffweeder;50810)
    The 1000 year rule on earth is a myth.Heaven and earth will pass away, but my word wont pass away said Jesus also about his coming.Without using rev, show me NT teaching on the millenium.I say this because most of the NT was written before AD 70,yet rev-Johns letters, written 20 years or so later.
    hi Jeff,Why do you think the 1000 year rule is a myth? I agree it's only seen in Revelation...but how can you discount revelation?Also, just wondering as i've posted it elsewhere but you didn't respond and i'm curious what your thoughts are on whether ezekiel 38 adn 39 have already happened? I thought it very strange that there would be chapters 40+ going on and on about how the new temple should be built with altars, sacrifice rules etc, if this was to happen after Christ--why would God command such a thing that is completely unnecessary??thanks, Liz
     
  14. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (jeffweeder;50810)
    The place of incorruptable bodies is the fathers house....where only righteousness dwellls.--1cor 15This is the place that Jesus has gone to prepare for us. It is not prepared for this earth...Jesus kingdom is not of this world...never will be.Like Peter, i look for the day of God, in which the the old will pass, and the new comes, where only righteousness dwells.The 1000 year rule on earth is a myth.Heaven and earth will pass away, but my word wont pass away said Jesus also about his coming.Without using rev, show me NT teaching on the millenium.I say this because most of the NT was written before AD 70,yet rev-Johns letters, written 20 years or so later.So NT greeks for 20 years had what teaching on the millenium?NothingThey had 2 pet 3, and their eye on this day of God, and the old heavens passing, and the hope of the home where there is only righteousness.They looked for these things, so should we.
    All I can say is this not what my bible says
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (guysmith;50808)
    Kriss,If God is going to protect Israel in Jordan, then why did God make the land of Israel the promised land? Also, If only the AC forces will be in Jerusalem at that time as you say, then please give me an explanation for the following verses:Revelation 111I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
    Guy this reed of Rev11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God,"This "reed" John was given, was not for making a measurement. The reed was a "scepter"; a rod not for building something, but for destruction. The destruction is for the tearing down of the temple of God, the altar, and all of them that worship within. The reason for this destruction is because at this time the Antichrist will be sitting on the throne of God in the temple, making sacrifice to himself, and the people of the world will believe he is God.
     
  16. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    Why do you think the 1000 year rule is a myth? I agree it's only seen in Revelation...but how can you discount revelation?
    Good morning LizI dont discount Rev.I believe the Millenium is not 1000 lit years, but symbolic of the new birth.Those who overcome will not be hurt by the second death.Those that take part in the first ressurection will not be hurt by the second death.Those that believe the gospel wont be judged with the second death.Peter makes no mention of the millenium in 2pet 3 .He looks for his 2nd coming ,then the new heaven and new earth. (isnt the millenium suppose to be inbetween)The enormous crowd in rev 7 and the GWT -rev 20, seems to be the time of God wiping away tears etc--yet the rev 7 crowd come straight out the GT, not the millenium.Hope im making sense.
     
  17. lizz7711

    lizz7711 New Member

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    (jeffweeder;50872)
    Good morning LizI dont discount Rev.I believe the Millenium is not 1000 lit years, but symbolic of the new birth.Those who overcome will not be hurt by the second death.Those that take part in the first ressurection will not be hurt by the second death.Those that believe the gospel wont be judged with the second death.Peter makes no mention of the millenium in 2pet 3 .He looks for his 2nd coming ,then the new heaven and new earth. (isnt the millenium suppose to be inbetween)The enormous crowd in rev 7 and the GWT -rev 20, seems to be the time of God wiping away tears etc--yet the rev 7 crowd come straight out the GT, not the millenium.Hope im making sense.
    Ahhh...just noticed you're an aussie [​IMG] Was wondering why you said "good morning". How is it down under? you're in winter now, right?Anyway! Thansk for your response...i'll have to study that idea, never heard of that interpretation. Did you have any thoughts on ezekiel 38&39?ta!
     
  18. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    How is it down under? you're in winter now, right?
    Just about (cobber), after the terrible heatwaves,where you couldnt keep cool, at last i can keep warm....I love my coat. During the summer the pool was like a hot spa, couldnt cool off.I am an Englishman actually, but i grew up in Aussieland...i was 3 when we came over.Ez 38/9 sounds like future to me. sounds like armaggedon.Havent really studied it properly, but v 8 is interesting.Sorry i didnt answer before, had to rush off.God bless you Liz, i like you.
     
  19. lizz7711

    lizz7711 New Member

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    hi there, i've been off the internet for a bit, need to catch up on here!thanks for answering about ezekiel...it does sound like future armageddon, but then right afterwards it goes on for many chapters about how to build the new temple, complete with altars and sacrifice rooms etc...so I just don't get why God would ask for this AFTER Christ has come and gotten rid of any need for animal sacrifices.I appreciate your balanced posts on here. by the way, my parents are both from London, east end. I love it over there. And i've visitied your neighbor New Zealand...we lived in Singapore when I was a kid for a couple years so I got to know quite a few kiwis and aussies:) crazy bunch you are! :eek:anyway, God bless you too,Liz'(jeffweeder;50897)
    Just about (cobber), after the terrible heatwaves,where you couldnt keep cool, at last i can keep warm....I love my coat. During the summer the pool was like a hot spa, couldnt cool off.I am an Englishman actually, but i grew up in Aussieland...i was 3 when we came over.Ez 38/9 sounds like future to me. sounds like armaggedon.Havent really studied it properly, but v 8 is interesting.Sorry i didnt answer before, had to rush off.God bless you Liz, i like you.
     
  20. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    but then right afterwards it goes on for many chapters about how to build the new temple, complete with altars and sacrifice rooms etc...so I just don't get why God would ask for this AFTER Christ has come and gotten rid of any need for animal sacrifices.
    Yeah interpreting it literally doesnt seem to make sense--but if we interpret it figuratively---look,God says that he is to dwell in this temple 4ever.-43:7yet in Rev 21:22, there is no temple in heaven.so its fig of the Church era....perhaps.
     
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