intentional sins?

[quietthinker]

Worse are those who deceive the people by saying they keep them, remember what happened to Ananias,

Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

So many people think they can do better than Jesus.

Are you implying mjrhealth that you cannot keep God's Commandments?
May I ask which of the Commandments you cannot keep?

I'm sure Ananias had power not to lie as did his wife but they chose to lie by agreement. Would there be a similar situation with yourself where you choose to disregard God's Commandments under the banner of not being able to?

Let me add this.....the natural man has no power to keep God's Commandments.....they are in fact foolishness to him.
The regenerate man however is empowered not only to live with a liberated conscience but to love, uphold and do God's Commandments. The new birth is precisely this.

If on honest self examination of ones life one finds the Commandments threatening; one finds the Commandments at variance with ones desires; one finds an unwillingness to obey then one can be certain no new birth has occurred but instead a religious mindset is interpreted as such.
The scripture identifies this religious mindset as a deception and its identity is recognised by the unwillingness of its adherents to keep God's Commandments.

Those born again overcome the flesh; this is the meaning of 'born again'. Yes, they struggle much, they battle the flesh, their disposition is to resist the temptations the flesh finds so desirable; they are being recreated in the image of their redeemer.......they hunger and thirst to be in harmony with the principles of life (righteousness).....at all costs.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are laws concerning tzitzit and tallit and tefilin in the OT that I don't think any of us are able to keep except we become as the Judaizers would have us be...no longer Gentile believers but orthodox Jews.

In Galatians 6:13 Paul writes that not even those who are stickers for the law...those who are circumcised...keep the law.

In Galatians 3:22 it is also written that the scripture has concluded all under sin in order that the promise through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

I do believe in the doctrine of entire sanctification.

However, when it comes to the OT law, I believe that the scripture is clear that no one can keep it.

So we come to Romans 7:6, where we are told that it is not the letter of the law that we are any more bound to; but that rather as NT believers we are obedient to the spirit of the law.

This is what entire sanctification is.

Charity, or agape love, is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14).

It is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

Because the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given to us (Romans 5:5).

As we walk according to the Spirit (in the love of the Lord), the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

This love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

Thus the righteousness of the Lord is not only imputed but imparted (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7).

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you implying mjrhealth that you cannot keep God's Commandments?
May I ask which of the Commandments you cannot keep?

No I cannot and neither can you, something to do with Boasters of self, if I said I could I would join the crowd of liars and deceivers.

you know this bit.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

God justifies whom He will.

Still wanting to be judged by there works, oh so foolish, did I forget Blind

 

[mjrhealth]

If on honest self examination of ones life one finds the Commandments threatening; one finds the Commandments at variance with ones desires;

Dont find them threatening at all, God isnt a murderer...

 

[justbyfaith]

No I cannot and neither can you, something to do with Boasters of self, if I said I could I would join the crowd of liars and deceivers.

you know this bit.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

God justifies whom He will.

Still wanting to be judged by there works, oh so foolish, did I forget Blind

Of course when a man cries out to the Lord, "God be merciful to me a sinner" the result of such a request, if it is genuine before the Lord, will be regeneration and renewal by the Holy Ghost (see Titus 3:5).

This would mean a changed heart so that the man becomes a new creature in Christ: the old has gone; behold, all things are become new (2 Corinthians 5:17)!

The inclination of the spiritual mind is that it is at peace with God; for it is subject to the law of the Lord and cannot be otherwise (see Romans 8:7).

 

[mjrhealth]

Of course when a man cries out to the Lord, "God be merciful to me a sinner" the result of such a request, if it is genuine before the Lord, will be regeneration and renewal by the Holy Ghost (see Titus 3:5).

Funny thing is we set our ideas of how God must work, than God just does it His way. I have never cried out to God for Him to be merciful, God is merciful, that is Just who He is. God is Love He can be no different.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have never cried out to God for Him to be merciful,

That's too bad; because if you did you would go home justified according to the parable.

 

[mjrhealth]

That's too bad; because if you did you would go home justified according to the parable.

Why ?? we are justified by what Christ has done and our Faith in Him, not by any crying out, although I do have a friend who did that. But like I said men like dictating to God what HE can and cannot do. When its not done His way, nothing gets done.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why ?? we are justified by what Christ has done and our Faith in Him, not by any crying out, although I do have a friend who did that. But like I said men like dictating to God what HE can and cannot do. When its not done His way, nothing gets done.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to take a hold of His promise to the one who cries out to Him, "God be merciful to me a sinner;" but to each his own, I suppose.

 

[quietthinker]

There are laws concerning tzitzit and tallit and tefilin in the OT that I don't think any of us are able to keep except we become as the Judaizers would have us be...no longer Gentile believers but orthodox Jews.

In Galatians 6:13 Paul writes that not even those who are stickers for the law...those who are circumcised...keep the law.

In Galatians 3:22 it is also written that the scripture has concluded all under sin in order that the promise through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

I do believe in the doctrine of entire sanctification.

However, when it comes to the OT law, I believe that the scripture is clear that no one can keep it.

So we come to Romans 7:6, where we are told that it is not the letter of the law that we are any more bound to; but that rather as NT believers we are obedient to the spirit of the law.

This is what entire sanctification is.

Charity, or agape love, is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14).

It is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

Because the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given to us (Romans 5:5).

As we walk according to the Spirit (in the love of the Lord), the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

This love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

Thus the righteousness of the Lord is not only imputed but imparted (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7).

Do you use the the fulfilment of ceremonial laws to excuse yourself from obligation to the moral laws, the Ten Commandments?

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you use the the fulfilment of ceremonial laws to excuse yourself from obligation to the moral laws, the Ten Commandments?

I'm not certain that we as believers are obligated to keep the letter of the sabbath.

Of course, the fulfillment of the ceremonial laws is that Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrificial Lamb.

In one sense this means that we are forgiven of past, present, and future sins in that our relationship to the law has changed: we are not under it, we are dead to it, and we are delivered from it (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6). So we are not counted as sinners without the law; for where no law is, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15) and therefore sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13). And since the above is true, it is as if there is no law for those who are in Christ; as concerning condemnation: while as concerning obedience the law still governs us from the inside: in that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts as the fruit of the Spirit and against such there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23) and that this love is also the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

And therefore there is no "obligation" to obey the moral laws because there is no condemnation for disobeying them.

Although it might be said that if someone does not obey the moral laws, it is a sign that they are not born again and that therefore condemnation would be on them for that reason. While in reality the obedience that would be exhibited would not come about through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts but through being in Christ by faith, as we bear the fruit of the Spirit and don't violate any laws as the result.

But I teach what I teach because the devil's tactic is condemnation on those who temporarily blow it: he tries to get them under by bringing them to a place of discouragement over their lack of self-control.

There are many genuine believers who are still living in Romans 7:14-25 and who have not yet graduated into Romans 8; and the Holy Spirit gives them leeway until their iniquity be found to be hateful (Psalms 36:2).

As born again believers in Christ, we are inclined to obey the word, for the law of the Lord is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16). For in it we meditate day and night (Psalms 1) and as the result of this we are like trees planted by the rivers of water; our leaf shall be green and we shall bear good fruit in due season.

We abide in the vine, which is Jesus Christ (John 15:1-8); and because we draw up nourishment from the source that is given to us, we can come to the place of not sinning in our lives for the rest of our everlasting lives (1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to take a hold of His promise to the one who cries out to Him, "God be merciful to me a sinner;" but to each his own, I suppose.

Was that a demand from God??, Never heard Him demand it from anyone, did you... or did you just add it as a requirement for salvation...

 

[justbyfaith]

Was that a demand from God??, Never heard Him demand it from anyone, did you... or did you just add it as a requirement for salvation...

Just read the parable again; and consider that two examples are set forth.

Which one of them are you?

 

[mjrhealth]

Just read the parable again; and consider that two examples are set forth.

Which one of them are you?

Oh you want to define me by something that is written I guess, bit like men have defined God locked Him in there little box of which the have set the boundaries He MUST abide in and so lock Him out of everything. I never asked to be saved Jesus just decided as God does Ill save this man. Should you complain to Him.. please go ahead.

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh you want to define me by something that is written I guess, bit like men have defined God locked Him in there little box of which the have set the boundaries He MUST abide in and so lock Him out of everything. I never asked to be saved Jesus just decided as God does Ill save this man. Should you complain to Him.. please go ahead.

Not going to complain about someone being saved if their salvation is actually real.

I would just say that there are two attitudes that we can have before God, according to the parable:

1) self-righteousness, exalting one's self as being more righteous than other people;

and,

2) humility, humbling one's self by crying out for mercy.

One attitude goes home justified rather than the other.

That is all that I'm saying.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm not certain that we as believers are obligated to keep the letter of the sabbath.

Of course, the fulfillment of the ceremonial laws is that Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrificial Lamb.

In one sense this means that we are forgiven of past, present, and future sins in that our relationship to the law has changed: we are not under it, we are dead to it, and we are delivered from it (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6). So we are not counted as sinners without the law; for where no law is, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15) and therefore sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13). And since the above is true, it is as if there is no law for those who are in Christ; as concerning condemnation: while as concerning obedience the law still governs us from the inside: in that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts as the fruit of the Spirit and against such there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23) and that this love is also the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

And therefore there is no "obligation" to obey the moral laws because there is no condemnation for disobeying them.

Although it might be said that if someone does not obey the moral laws, it is a sign that they are not born again and that therefore condemnation would be on them for that reason. While in reality the obedience that would be exhibited would not come about through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts but through being in Christ by faith, as we bear the fruit of the Spirit and don't violate any laws as the result.

But I teach what I teach because the devil's tactic is condemnation on those who temporarily blow it: he tries to get them under by bringing them to a place of discouragement over their lack of self-control.

There are many genuine believers who are still living in Romans 7:14-25 and who have not yet graduated into Romans 8; and the Holy Spirit gives them leeway until their iniquity be found to be hateful (Psalms 36:2).

As born again believers in Christ, we are inclined to obey the word, for the law of the Lord is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16). For in it we meditate day and night (Psalms 1) and as the result of this we are like trees planted by the rivers of water; our leaf shall be green and we shall bear good fruit in due season.

We abide in the vine, which is Jesus Christ (John 15:1-8); and because we draw up nourishment from the source that is given to us, we can come to the place of not sinning in our lives for the rest of our everlasting lives (1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

It sounds confused and contradictory to me justbyfaith, not to mention a precarious juggling act with the scriptures.

 

[justbyfaith]

It sounds confused and contradictory to me justbyfaith, not to mention a precarious juggling act with the scriptures.

Nevertheless, it is a solid revelation from the Holy Spirit; and if you can get a hold of it, it may even change your life.

 

[mjrhealth]

Not going to complain about someone being saved if their salvation is actually real.

I would just say that there are two attitudes that we can have before God, according to the parable:

1) self-righteousness, exalting one's self as being more righteous than other people;

and,

2) humility, humbling one's self by crying out for mercy.

One attitude goes home justified rather than the other.

That is all that I'm saying.

And accepting God freely given gift is than what?? Not trying to earn ones salvation, knowing one cannot is no less than being Humble.

Godbless

 

[CharismaticLady]

This poster also said we can be "sinless." That is really against the spirit of what the Apostle John said in 1 John 1. I don't know how someone can face 1 John 1 and still claim we can be "sinless?"

1 John 1:7 is someone walking in the Spirit, thus 1 John 3:5 Jesus has taken away their sin, and yes, there are two categories of sin 1 John 5:16-17, and at the end of 1 John 1:7 any unwittingly committed sin is cleansed.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Clearly, we can become "completely sanctified" in the sense of choosing to live in the "new nature of Christ." But even in this we cannot become "sinless" and "perfect." This is a complete misreading of the theology of sanctification.

The "theology" of sanctification has been misrepresented for centuries my dear brother. That is the crux of the theology of defeatism. Sanctification is merely being set apart unto God. Don't you know that is done when we first receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Christ, without which we don't belong to Christ. Romans 8:9. Sanctification is not the ongoing process of overcoming sin as that "theology" suggests. No, it is back to back with justification. It also says that we will always sin, and cannot be perfect until after we die. That is extreme error also. When we die, whatever state we are in is forever. Revelation 22:11. If we are a willful sinner, we are slaves to sin and will burn in hell forever. If we are righteous or holy we will live with God forever as children of God.

There is a "process", but it is not called sanctification, but glorification. Glorification is becoming like Christ is in His glory. We have been given the mind of Christ, and are partakers of the divine nature.

So either, study your theologians, or the Bible. They don't teach the same things generally, which is why I'm not a denominationalist.