Is age a problem?

[Christina]

Originally Posted by kriss After Moderating this site for a little over two years and talking with hundreds of people I can honestly say age is a NON issueWe have 14+ year olds that are much wiser in the word than some 70 year olds And the other way around Age is nothing wisdom is given from God and he gives wisdom to anyone who asks and has the heart/mind to understand it. I seldom ever look at anyones age but judge their knowledge in the Word by their understaning of itAge only adds life experince which can sometimes give one fuller understanding of how to put the wisdom God has given them into action in the World around them but it still comes down to the wisdom God has given OneOK I altered my original post it does lower your odds of 1 in 3 Follower but alas do not fear you are included

 

[MWM]

I'm 15, I'm in the middle!

 

[Christina]

I just included you MWM

 

[ForYou]

(followerofchrist;43660)
Do not worry young one, you will one day be able to understand the vast wisdom that comes from being 16. haha
Haha that made me laugh so hard hahaThanks that made my day!

 

[ForYou]

(MWM;43663)
I'm 15, I'm in the middle!
Okay once more age doesn't matter.And oh COME ON somebody has to be 14 or 13 somebody make me feel BIG Hahahah

 

[MWM]

At least I'm older than some one here. YAY! I feel big!

 

[stlizzy]

(marksman;43460)
I don't think that this is a consideration when it comes to leadership in the local assembly for the simple reason that the scripture makes it quite clear that eldership is the province of older men chronologically. There is no indication of any kind in scripture that says you can be an elder if you are young chronologically and spiritually mature.The qualifications for eldership in Timothy and Titus rule out a young person being an elder as it says that they have to rule their household well. You cannot be seen to rule your household well unless you are married, unless you have children, and unless you have some track record bringing up those children.From experience, bringing up small children is a breeze in comparison to bringing up teenagers. It is then that the challenge to rule your household well comes into play.On that basis, bearing in mind that the elders in the NT church were not imported from outside, they were products of the local assembly, and were appointed on the basis of their quality of life, it is highly unlikey that a person would be appointed an elder unless he were 40 or 50 years old.I know of a pastor who has been called from outside the local church who has a son who is a drug addict and another son who is a drug dealer. In the NT church that would be impossible.
This last point.. about a pastor who has a son who is a drug addict- to a point I think you are right because it would seem to me that a man who had a child with this type of problem would need to spend his time and energy focusing on his household rather than the major responsibilities that come with being a pastor- but I also I believe that there comes a point when a son/daughter begins to have their own culpability that is less and less reflective of the parents- but I would say this is not when they are teenagers.... it comes later when they make their own home.But when does a child cease to be a child? When he forms his own home? Can one do this without being married? Since I no longer live with my parents at 23, am I solely responsible for myself?I think that a child never truly ceases to be a child because the age factor between the child and parent will perpetually exist (insofar as someone older usually has more knowledge to impart... theoretically, but we all know people to whom this theory does not apply at all...)Anyway, what I am getting at is that choosing leaders in the church is extremely important, you are right... and one way to choose a good leader is to evaluate their home and their life. Are they bearing fruit- and can they help, through the power of the Father, the church bear fruit as well.Going off this point... I feel like head pastors are over-emphasized and that structure of your typical modern-day church lacks the diversity and the "body-like" atmosphere that the early church reflected. Often times age is too much of a barrier and we use it to stratify the church "groups". IE, "youth group", "seniors" , "young parents"- and I have seen in churches where the groups never mix because people only go to their respective "sunday school" classes! Age is a factor just like gender. We have different stages of life for a reason.... but I also think that God works through any circumstance and the important thing is to never underestimate the power of God to work even through the very young... therefore we should respect the young as much as the old. Besides, the more voices giving input the more we take the focus of the individual person and place it on God who is working through the body of the Church, His bride.All Praise be to the Father!

 

[ForYou]

(MWM;43669)
At least I'm older than some one here. YAY! I feel big!

Good post stlizzyBut grrr,you just wait one day I will feel big to!

 

[marksman]

though I see that being an "elder" would mean just that an elder in the church...I find the above example of disqualification an issue as biased and judgmental and would hope that none would look upon a parent for the clear choices their kids (most likely grown) as being incapable of holding the position as pastor or any other position of leadership in the church.
You make this comment because you have not understood the reason for it. It has nothing to do with being biased and judgmental, it is a fact and the pastor concerned is a friend of mine, who confided in me that he was struggling with the issue.Whether kids are grown or not is not relevant. They are your children whether they are 15 or 55. My adult son who had left home went off the rails so I disqualified myself from leadership in the church. He has got his life back on track now, is married and has four children and is a cell group leader in his church.I am now able to accept any leadership position in the church that I may be offered. What you need to understand is that when the NT was written, you didn't stop being a member of a family because you became an adult or got married. If you visited your family home or your parents visited your home, you always gave subservience to your father's authority and obeyed him. If you didn't you were seen as bringing shame on him. The scripture says that younger men are to submit to the older men out of respect for them. One of the greatest expressions of wisdom that a younger man can have is to submit to those older than him. I am grateful that I had an older mentor that took me under his wing and taught me everything that he knew. My role was to learn, not tell him what to do. :naughty:

 

[Jackie D]

(marksman;43700)
You make this comment because you have not understood the reason for it. It has nothing to do with being biased and judgmental, it is a fact and the pastor concerned is a friend of mine, who confided in me that he was struggling with the issue.Whether kids are grown or not is not relevant. They are your children whether they are 15 or 55. My adult son who had left home went off the rails so I disqualified myself from leadership in the church. He has got his life back on track now, is married and has four children and is a cell group leader in his church.I am now able to accept any leadership position in the church that I may be offered. What you need to understand is that when the NT was written, you didn't stop being a member of a family because you became an adult or got married. If you visited your family home or your parents visited your home, you always gave subservience to your father's authority and obeyed him. If you didn't you were seen as bringing shame on him. The scripture says that younger men are to submit to the older men out of respect for them. One of the greatest expressions of wisdom that a younger man can have is to submit to those older than him. I am grateful that I had an older mentor that took me under his wing and taught me everything that he knew. My role was to learn, not tell him what to do. :naughty:
I appreciate what you are saying..however, being a recovered addict I can tell you that my choice to use drugs and to sell drugs had absolutely nothing to do with the character or integrity of my mother. It had no impact as to how God viewed/views her and these choices I made belonged to me. They were my shame. They were my sin. As God spoke to Jeremiah Jer 31:30 "But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. my mother is no more responsible for my sins as this man is no more responsible for the sins of his children...and those sins committed by his sons do not disqualify him in any way. In my opinion it qualifies him even more now than it did before knowing about his sons, because he has been down a road that refines and hones him to being MORE like Christ....for he must forgive and he must learn compassion for such an aweful disease that effects everyone. Now he can choose to take on the guilt and shame of what his children do, but no where does it say that he is in fact responsible to do so. In fact, if God doesn't lay it on him, it is pretty presumptuous of him and any other human being to do it for God. :naughty:I do not have an unfeeling heart about this matter because I am all to familiar with it, having been there and done that. But if God didn't disqualify me or my parents to being His because of my sins and actions...people are NOT allowed to do it either. Regardless of age or position within the "church"...IMHOblessings

 

[followerofchrist]

(Dukester;43667)
Haha that made me laugh so hard hahaThanks that made my day!
haha i try

 

[kernelspy]

(marksman;43460)
The qualifications for eldership in Timothy and Titus rule out a young person being an elder as it says that they have to rule their household well. You cannot be seen to rule your household well unless you are married, unless you have children, and unless you have some track record bringing up those children.I know of a pastor who has been called from outside the local church who has a son who is a drug addict and another son who is a drug dealer. In the NT church that would be impossible.
Very interesting point here by marksman. How could a pastor/ elder lead a church if he cannot even lead well his/ her family? I wonder if that's the main reason for the priest and nuns making the choice of single blessedness.

 

[Jackie D]

(kernelspy;43923)
Very interesting point here by marksman. How could a pastor/ elder lead a church if he cannot even lead well his/ her family?
sounds pretty judgmental and is bunk in my book. It seems to me that what is really being put on trial here is the atoning Blood of the Lamb...
I wonder if that's the main reason for the priest and nuns making the choice of single blessedness.
well whatever the reasons...the world doesn't stop spinning and things still happen, even though we become Christians and possibly leaders....

 

[zozephin]

My friend,age has nothing to do with your pneumatic education....A child who believe who has a very strong faith may be much learner than a old man...thnksGod loves you..

 

[marksman]

I appreciate what you are saying..however, being a recovered addict I can tell you that my choice to use drugs and to sell drugs had absolutely nothing to do with the character or integrity of my mother. It had no impact as to how God viewed/views her and these choices I made belonged to me. They were my shame. They were my sin. As God spoke to Jeremiah
Like all good exegesis and good social research, you cannot make a case out of one case.
But if God didn't disqualify me or my parents to being His because of my sins and actions...people are NOT allowed to do it either. Regardless of age or position within the "church"...IMHO
What we are talking about here has nothing to do with God disqualifying us because of sins, we are talking about God's revealed word for leadership in the local assembly.
sounds pretty judgmental and is bunk in my book. It seems to me that what is really being put on trial here is the atoning Blood of the Lamb...
I don't think anyone is putting anything on trial. Merely stating what the scirpture says and demands is good teaching. Proposing esoterical feel good ideas that offend no one is a recipe for disaster.
My friend,age has nothing to do with your pneumatic education....A child who believe who has a very strong faith may be much learner than a old man...thnks
As I have no idea what a pneumatic education is can you enlighten us please? You comment about a child who has a strong faith is not relevant. The only thing that is relevant is what the scriptures say and no where will you find any teaching that says a child with a strong faith can be an elder in the church. If that is what God says, it is not for you or I to make up rules because we don't like what God wants.

 

[zozephin]

My friend, Pneumatic education is to exercise your mind in good behaviour,in God's words,to be learned reading Bible and apply the behaviour of Jesus Christ.

 

[HammerStone]

Marksman, what's your thoughts on Jesus teaching in the temple at a young age, which is documented? Does God violate what he would later say in his Word?

 

[Jackie D]

(Denver;44380)
Marksman, what's your thoughts on Jesus teaching in the temple at a young age, which is documented? Does God violate what he would later say in his Word?
truly Denver and amen.It's pretty normal to see people using part of scripture to support some church doctrine in an attempt to suit the current fads of what is considered 'proper' and what isn't, many times failing to use the whole of scripture to make the teaching complete....

 

[marksman]

My friend, Pneumatic education is to exercise your mind in good behaviour,in God's words,to be learned reading Bible and apply the behaviour of Jesus Christ.
And your point is...?
Marksman, what's your thoughts on Jesus teaching in the temple at a young age, which is documented? Does God violate what he would later say in his Word?
My thoughts are this. ONE. Jesus was without sin. The reason being he had a perfect relationship with his father evidenced by the fact that he only did what he saw his father do. That aspect makes him different to everyone else that has ever lived so his age cannot be used to prove a doctrine unless we are dealing with people that have a perfect relationship with the father. TWO. You never base any doctrine or belief on one verse of scripture or one incident in the bible. The best commentary on the bible is the bible itself and if there is a truth being taught, it will be backed up by other scripture. In the teaching about church leadership there is no mention of Jesus age being brought into the equasion to establish a pattern. THREE. Jesus lived on earth before the church came into being and overall, he did not teach anything about the church. His teaching was about the kingdom of God. His church teaching was that it was his church, he would build it and the gates of hell would not prevail against it in a total of two verses. He gave no teaching regarding leadership in the local assembly. Had he wanted the fact that he was young to figure in the details of local assembly leadership, I am sure that it would have been included in what he said, bearing in mind my previous comment about the bible being its best commentator.FOUR. If we are going to claim that the young can lead the local church because Jesus taught in the temple when he was 12, we have to follow what he taught, namely that it is his church, and give it back to him and cease our man made institutions, positions and power plays. If Jesus prayer was that we would be one as he and the father would be one, it is obvious that man has taken control of the church attested to by the fact that there are approx 35,000 denominations worldwide. Not in your wildest imaginations can you attest that to be the work of Jesus. FIVE. God has said he places his word above his name so he cannot violate his word or his nature. The fact that there is nothing in his word that says a young man can be an elder in the local assembly (just the opposite 17 times)makes it quite clear that he doesn't want us to use his word to which he is committed to, to create a theory out of his son's relationship with himself. SIX. Paul spent 13 years getting revelation from God about his ministry and the church. Not once does he mention Jesus age as an indication of how the church should be governed in what he taught. I find it a bit strange that God didn't take the opportunity to brief Paul if this was significant factor.

 

[Jackie D]

let me ask you this marksman: do you believe that young people are able to share wisdom with anyone, or is that reserved for the aged and leaders? From my understanding that is what this thread is really about....